Re: Want to pray 3 times a day? Well here's a fatwa!!!
in the book fiqh al-Imam by Shaykh Abdur-Rahman Ibn Yusuf he writes about these hadiths (Ibn Abbas' ) that the Prophet (pbuh) used to perform jam' al-suri which is basically two prayers one after the other: "the first prayer at the end of its time and the second prayer immediately thereafter, at the beginning of its time."
so, what Ibn Abbas here is talking about is not about combining prayers in the way we see it.
btw, for the people who have not read this awesome book, get it now!!! it has all proofs on hanafi fiqh issues... it's called Fiqh al-Imam (whitethreadpress)
Re: Want to pray 3 times a day? Well here's a fatwa!!!
^ im not sure if i should debate with you cricketplaya brother, since you say you're not a scholar and dont directly wish to answer points, and I dont want to keep putting you in that position where you refuse to answer. however I will say that this hadis would appear to contradict that supposition
[quote]
Book 004, Number 1521:
Ibn 'Abbas reported: I observed with the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) eight (rak'ahs) in combination, and seven rak'ahs in combination. I (one of the narrators) said: O Abd Sha'tha', I think that he (the Holy Prophet) had delayed the noon prayer and hastened the afternoon prayer, and he delayed the sunset prayer and hastened the 'Isha' prayer. He said: I also think so.
[/quote]
The words delay, and hasten from their times, imply going beyond or bringing forward the appointed times.
Re: Want to pray 3 times a day? Well here's a fatwa!!!
^ im not sure if i should debate with you cricketplaya brother, since you say you're not a scholar and dont directly wish to answer points, and I dont want to keep putting you in that position where you refuse to answer. however I will say that this hadis would appear to contradict that supposition
The words delay, and hasten from their times, imply going beyond or bringing forward the appointed times.
How does it contradict? It only helps! Correct me if I didn't understand you but the words that you highlighted support the view that I posted.
The view is that the Prophet (pbuh) used to delay one prayer to it's end time and then immediately thereafter start praying the next prayer. So, one can safely say that the words delay and hasten have been used in the correct context.
Re: Want to pray 3 times a day? Well here's a fatwa!!!
^ the "to its end time" is the supposition being made without basis. you're right, it doesnt logically contradict though, hastened doesnt necessarily mean "to bring forward from its specified time" it can also be interpreted as "read immediately". depends on the arabic i guess.
i dont have an issue with what you're saying though, since that pretty much validates the shia and im guessing the turkish guy's POV. shias dont read maghreb so late as to become invalid (and that can be pretty late), and isha so early as to become maghreb. likewise for zuhr and asar.
does this book that you mention say whether the prophet only did that in hardship or he did that under normal circumstances too?
Re: Want to pray 3 times a day? Well here's a fatwa!!!
^ the "to its end time" is the supposition being made without basis
Again, the method jam 'al-suri is agreed upon by the scholars all these centuries... where do you get that it's without basis?
here is the same hadith that you posted:
Ibn 'Abbas, Radi-Allahu anhu, narrates:
I performed eight rak'ats together [four of Zuhr and four of 'Asr] and seven rak'ats together [three of Maghrib and four of 'Isha] with the Messenger of Allah Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam. [One of the narrators says,] "I asked Abu 'l-Sha'tha', 'I assume he delayed Zuhr [to the end of its time] and performed 'Asr as soon as it entered, and delayed Maghrib [likewise] and performed 'Isha early.' He replied, 'I also think the same'" (Sahih Muslim 1:246, Musannaf Ibn Abi Shayba 2: 456).
Re: Want to pray 3 times a day? Well here’s a fatwa!!!
basically the book is on the hanafi madhab, so it provides proof for hanafi fiqh. so yes it goes on with the common hadiths.. one can find such discussion on many hanafi websites such as sunnipath.com and albalagh.net
Re: Want to pray 3 times a day? Well here’s a fatwa!!!
cricketplaya- Hanafi Madhab is not the only interpretation of Islam. There are other interpretation (fiq’ha) and all of them are equally revered and applicable.
Combining of prayers (at times) is clearly mentioned in books. Taking advantage of this convenience is totaly a matter of choice.
You might read the explaination you provided in post 29. It does not reject the idea, and rightly so.
ravage - I consider 5 daily prayer at five time a norm. Because we have scores of narations, traditions and reports which tell us that prayers 5 time daily was a norm at the time of prophet (pbuh). And he used to uphold them in congregation.
Just like prophet ordered to drink water while in sitting position and he normally did the same , but at some time(very few occasions) he drank water while standing up. Now we cant ignore the norm ( the habit of drinking water while being seated) and take the exception and consider it or make it a norm.
USR has put it very concisely and rightly :k: . I agree with him
Re: Want to pray 3 times a day? Well here's a fatwa!!!
cricketplaya bhaijaan you misunderstood what i said, i meant the assumption was wrt the specific hadith (that it was jam al suri in that instance just as it was supposedly raining in that instance even though the text says nothing to suggest thats the case). i did not mean jam al suri is a new concept, i wouldnt know if it was.
code-red, i generally agree with what you/USR say. in that light, and the jam al suri thing, the turkish fatwa is not all that radical.
Re: Want to pray 3 times a day? Well here’s a fatwa!!!
Mind you but this is the Stupidest thing i’ve ever read. No Muslim can say that!
**Islam was CREATED for this world, The world Runs aroun ISLAM, not the other way around. **
The best option for those who want Islam to conform to today’s laziness, and to have it easy for themselves without sacrificing anything, should just not follow islam all together and become athiests, losta “freedom” in the world for you then.
Re: Want to pray 3 times a day? Well here's a fatwa!!!
cricketplaya- Hanafi Madhab is not the only interpretation of Islam. There are other interpretation (fiq'ha) and all of them are equally revered and applicable.
Yes of course there are other views and they are respected, I was highlighting hanafi madhab because most Pakistanis follow it. That is why in any madhab we are allowed to take the opinion of other madhabs when in need. Combining prayer is not allowed in the hanafi madhab but if a serious need arises, then one can go ahead and follow another madhab for that particular thing and that too in it's proper way and form.
I think the main point we're missing here is that prayers cannot be combined if one desires it, there has to be a need. Turkey on the other hand is not following this concept, it is going by a few hadiths and making it a NORM.
Re: Want to pray 3 times a day? Well here's a fatwa!!!
Mind you but this is the Stupidest thing i've ever read. No Muslim can say that!
*Islam was CREATED for this world, The world Runs aroun ISLAM, not the other way around. *
The best option for those who want Islam to conform to today's laziness, and to have it easy for themselves without sacrificing anything, should just not follow islam all together and become athiests, losta "freedom" in the world for you then.
True said.
A saying comes to my mind, "Islam doesn't need people, the people need Islam!"
