Wake up...

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Perhaps the our(muslims situation) is a direct result of our transgretions…
Take a simple look at the gupshup forums themselves and the type of material we all post here. It doesnt take an Aalim to see the sharp contrast with what we consider the norm these days and islam really is…

Im becomming increasingly disillusioned with the people we call muslim today, including myself…

God doesnt help those who dont help themselves, and we my friends are definetly not helping ourselves, but infact in many(most ?) cases are helping the Kufar truimph over our own brothers and sisters…

This hell on earth is our own creation, and Allah will replace us with another Qoam if we dont undo the transgression…

2

Thats true- I agree with you to the word. And you want to know why? Its because of our own attitude where we would rather spend the time condemning others and making hate a part of Islam rather than doing something constructive , and letting others learn THROUGH our actions that Islam is the perfect deen.

We would rather spend the time hating rather than helping our brothers, our families, and our selves. We’re destroying our selves, and our nations, building walls rather than bridges.

[This message has been edited by Ace (edited April 08, 2002).]

3

Ace, did you notice, the person said that many Muslims are helping the Kuffar triumph over us.

You are an outstanding example. Keep up the good work Ace. Any one who reads your post will be convinced that Muslims are truly an evil and hateful people.

Atleast, those Muslims who stand up for Islam, speak the truth when they attack the Kuffar, unlike the Kuffar who lie when they attack Islam.

And, who are you to judge the Muslims like that? Muslims are a wonderful people and Islam is a wonderful religion.

No matter what you say, you can’t change the facts. You may repeat a million times that Muslims are full of hatred but you’ll never be able to explain why the Muslim media does not spread lies and hatred against other religions, while the kafir media spreads lies and hatred against Islam.

You’ll not be able to answer that when 50,000 Muslim women were raped in Bosnia, why the ** Christian minorities in Muslim lands were NOT attacked **, for example, Egypt, Pakistan etc. But when you’d the Sept. 11 thing - even though NO proof was offered against the Muslims, - Muslims were attacked everywhere - not only in North America, but also in the U.K, Belgium etc.

You’ll never be able to explain that .

But atleast stop repeating the kafir mantra that Muslims are consumed with hate.

Or you better explain the points I raised here.

If you continue with this behavior of yours, I’ll be forced to step down from my Islamic ettiquetes of politeness, and will have to address you by giving you a taste of your own medicine.

Or if you don’t want that, you should give an explaination to the points I raised above.

4

Do I really need to prove anything after your hateful posts across the board?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

5

Whatever Ace, You still didn’t answer the points I raised.

And, from now on, if you continue with your shameless Muslim bashing, I will have to respond to you in your own language.

I had asked you to either explain the points I has asked you to explain, or quit Muslim-bashing.

You didn’t explain those points, and I have a reason to question your loyalty and motives now.

6

You are an outstanding example. Keep up the good work Ace. Any one who reads your post will be convinced that Muslims are truly an evil and hateful people.
Anyone who reads your posts will not need any further proof- believe me.

*And, who are you to judge the Muslims like that? Muslims are a wonderful people and Islam is a wonderful religion. *
If you say hate is wonderful I disagree, but yes Islam is wonderful and hate is not a part of it.

*No matter what you say, you can't change the facts. You may repeat a million times that Muslims are full of hatred but you'll never be able to explain why the Muslim media does not spread lies and hatred against other religions, while the kafir media spreads lies and hatred against Islam. *
No, the muslim media doesn't spread hatred you say? How about the hate which is boiling from within you and others on the board? Where did it come from? YOUR MEDIA. WHAT about the riots daily in muslim countries? EVER PICKED UP THE NEWSPAPER? See how the local sects are thrown dirt on by the media?

*You'll not be able to answer that when 50,000 Muslim women were raped in Bosnia, why the Christian minorities in Muslim lands were NOT attacked, for example, Egypt, Pakistan etc. But when you'd the Sept. 11 thing - even though NO proof was offered against the Muslims, - Muslims were attacked everywhere - not only in North America, but also in the U.K, Belgium etc. *
A lot of injustice has been done against the muslims- Can fire be fought with fire? NO? Do you recall the incident where Hadrat Ali(RA) did not kill a person because he spat on Hadrat Ali(RA)'s face. Our living/dying/jihad is for Allah(SWT), not to quench our own hatred. Have you done anything to better Islam other than spread hatred?

**If you continue with this behavior of yours, I'll be forced to step down from my Islamic ettiquetes of politeness, and will have to address you by giving you a taste of your own medicine.

Or if you don't want that, you should give an explaination to the points I raised above.**
Are you threatening me? Did I get onto your nerves? Is the truth really that painful? I dont see myself getting angry?

7

ACE do u think that we Muslims have all hate filled in our hearts ??

we hate every thing , our neighbours, families, couliges, country men, and felow Muslim brothers ?

IF someone express his hatred toward Israel then U CANNOT SAY THAT he has hatred filled in his heart for the entire manking, and there is a concrete reason for such expresion of hatred

Sorry my dear, i do not agree with u..

Dont think "you can" know "you can"
.::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.

8

[quote]
Originally posted by FlameZz:
**ACE do u think that we Muslims have all hate filled in our hearts ??

we hate every thing , our neighbours, families, couliges, country men, and felow Muslim brothers ?

IF someone express his hatred toward Israel then U CANNOT SAY THAT he has hatred filled in his heart for the entire manking, and there is a concrete reason for such expresion of hatred

Sorry my dear, i do not agree with u..

**
[/quote]

No I never said that brother. I have hatred for Israel and how my sisters and brothers are being mistreated and being killed in huge numbers. I said instead of 'hating' others we should spend our time doing something constructive which would better our deen.

Blind hatred is bad. I didn't say we hate our neighbors or fellow countrymen, I said we should spend our time helping them, not hating someone when it doesn't do us any good. I say that we're in the bad position we're in because we dont accept our responsibility to help our Ummah, instead we bash others and propagate hatred. Can you tell me any other reason why we're in the position we're in(here: Indian_muslim will reply by saying "its because of people like you")?

9

[quote]
Originally posted by Ace:
*No, the muslim media doesn't spread hatred you say? How about the hate which is boiling from within you and others on the board? Where did it come from? YOUR MEDIA. WHAT about the riots daily in muslim countries? EVER PICKED UP THE NEWSPAPER? See how the local sects are thrown dirt on by the media? *
[/quote]

Please quote the media which is spreading lies against the Kuffar. Forget about what I think or do not think. Commenting on individuals is a very subjective matter, and a lot of stuff can be said in subjective matters.

What kind of hatred is boiling from within me, btw???

[quote]

You'll not be able to answer that when 50,000 Muslim women were raped in Bosnia, why the Christian minorities in Muslim lands were NOT attacked, for example, Egypt, Pakistan etc. But when you'd the Sept. 11 thing - even though NO proof was offered against the Muslims, - Muslims were attacked everywhere - not only in North America, but also in the U.K, Belgium etc. *
* A lot of injustice has been done against the muslims- Can fire be fought with fire? NO? Do you recall the incident where Hadrat Ali(RA) did not kill a person because he spat on Hadrat Ali(RA)'s face. Our living/dying/jihad is for Allah(SWT), not to quench our own hatred. **
[/quote]

** Do NOT try to change the topic. ** I am not talking about fighting fire with fire. I raised this question to ** explain why the Muslims did not respond in a hateful manner, while the Kuffar did ** - and you obviously tried to ** evade the point. **

Now since, you've not answered my questions, you are in no position to comment that the Muslims are full of hatred. If you persist, it only shows you are full of lies.

[quote]
*Have you done anything to better Islam other than spread hatred? *
[/quote]

Again, How much do you know about me and what I've done? What is obvious here is that ** you come down to personal attacks ** , (and that too without any proof - for eg. have you done anything other than spreading hatred? etc) when you don't have an answer.

[quote]
**
Are you threatening me? Did I get onto your nerves? Is the truth really that painful? I dont see myself getting angry?**
[/quote]

Another personal attack. What truth are you talking about.

** The ONLY truth that you talk about is SUBJECTIVE PERSONAL ATTACKS without any proof. ** like saying "You are responsible for the downfall of Islam" or " Have you done anything for Islam besides spreading hatred " or blah blah blah.

Give me some ** subjective points. **

I again ask you to ** answer those 2 points ** that I had initially raised or else, stop spreading lies about the Muslims.

Or if everything fails, are you again going to attack me personally???

10

muslims are not monolithic group. muslims
are devided by race eithnic and liguistic
lines like anyother religens. when you say islam first thing comes to mind is not indonesia or bangaldesh where largest
group of muslms live.

11

[quote]
Originally posted by Ace:
** Can you tell me any other reason why we're in the position we're in(here: Indian_muslim will reply by saying "its because of people like you")?**
[/quote]

** Another SUBJECTIVE PERSONAL ATTACK WITHOUT any PROOF. ** I see a pattern here Ace.

12

Would you calm down man? Act like a man please. Now getting back to the point- The original point was the downfall of muslims, and I clearly stated- "The reason for our downfall is because we would rather spend our time hating others rather than doing something constructive"-

And you replied by saying I'm telling others that muslims are full of hatred and Islam is full of hate when I had never said that. Why dont you answer my question first? Since when did hating become part of Islam? Why do I have to believe some sick hate propaganda about Jews being aliens before I'm considered muslim? Those that're doing injustice will be punished one day by Allah(SWT)- until then I'll try to make my Islam better and my world better without spreading hate- And yes If i'm confronted by a Jew who's done injustice to muslims, i will wait not but a second in giving him his due punishment (if I were in such a position)- but until then- hating others brings me nothing. Being paranoid about jews gives me nothing. Blaming THEM for my problems is just as useless.

13

[quote]
Originally posted by Ace:
*Would you calm down man? Act like a man please. *
[/quote]

My ** 2 points remain UNANSWERED. ** Please answer them, and do not raise new issues.

14

Yup..very constructive..i dont see your arguments making you fello's a better muslim ?

My point in making the post was that WE THE MUSLIMS have stopped practicing islam as its supposed to be..we have disgressed too much

Islam is a wonderful religion, but many of us muslims arnt t he wonderful people we are supposed to be anymore...

We follow the teachings of the west more then the Teachings of our Quram, that is if we read the Quran in the first place..and even if we read it many/most of us dont understand a word that is coming out of our mouth.

15

Mania brother- thats exactly what I was trying to say. It hurts me when people try to do all this and hurt fellow muslims. I cant explain in words how shocked and hurt I was on some of the comments I’ve recieved here. And when you say about how we dont read or understand the quran. I opened up a thread with that intent in mind- so that all of us can really understand Islam, but as you can see, all these “pro-muslims” did not even bother showing up- but they’re quick to come down and bash me for saying something truthful.

Ok- Maniac bro, lets do it this way, how do YOU propose that we should correct ourselves? Can we correct ourselves by dwelling on how we’re being mistreated? Or Should we make an effort to better our deen and help our fellow muslims. YOU TELL US. YOU tell us how to help ourselves and our religion. Jazakallah.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Ace (edited April 08, 2002).]

16

If all the muslims with the greatest opinions agree to disagree then I think we're closer to the solution.

17

[quote]
Originally posted by Indian_Muslim:
**
My ** 2 points remain UNANSWERED. ** Please answer them, and do not raise new issues. **
[/quote]

Your two points are not the purpose of this thread- open a new thread if you wish.

18

[quote]
Originally posted by Ace:
** Ok- Maniac bro, lets do it this way, how do YOU propose that we should correct ourselves? Can we correct ourselves by dwelling on how we're being mistreated? Or Should we make an effort to better our deen and help our fellow muslims. **
[/quote]

Ok, now we are dealing with something logical. I appreciate your concerns, but our situation cannot be improved by saying statements like "Muslims are filled with hatred" etc - these statements are not only false but are also very very misleading.

I am quite busy with my school and stuff, and I woudn't have normally participated in this forum, but when I saw such misleading statements from a person like you, I was shocked. I mean, you sounded like someone who cares for Islam.

Anyways, bottom line is Muslims are NOT filled with hate. Our decline is because we do not implement Islam fully in our lives , and that also includes the fact that we have given the Kuffar a free hand in destroying us.

19

[quote]
Originally posted by Ace:
** Your two points are not the purpose of this thread- open a new thread if you wish.**
[/quote]

Again avoiding the issue at hand ?? You claimed that Muslims are filled with hate. I refuted that and raised just 2 points. If you do not answer them, you are not being truthful in claiming that Muslims are filled with hate.

20

I commend you Ace on takign a stand against these bigots.

Personally, I no longer have the patience to deal with these wahabi fanatics, OBL wannabes.

And I have also learned that theri is no way to reason with a self-rightous fundamentilist. They will never believe you no matter what logic or reason you use. Instead when confronted by facts and logic, they will label you an agent of the kaafirs. I almost feel sorry for such misguided people.

What is the most sad part is these people are dragging Islam with them and this will affect all of us in the future, even though I despise these fundo filth.