Re: Wake up Pakistan!
fraudia its one thing to get tired of incorrect interpretation of islam yet another saying i dont want shariah law or an islamic state.islam through any interpretation doesnt support that ideaology surely. how can any muslim truly mean that?i can understand we can be nervous about it or apprehensive but saying NO? i dont get that
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
:eek: i dont know what to make of this. this certainly comes as a surprise.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
fraudia its one thing to get tired of incorrect interpretation of islam yet another saying i dont want shariah law or an islamic state.islam through any interpretation doesnt support that ideaology surely. how can any muslim truly mean that?i can understand we can be nervous about it or apprehensive but saying NO? i dont get that
the challenge is that you go for one version of shariah and all other groups will be against it.
Once they figure out what shariah is, and a khilafah is established, let me know. I will support it.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
yeah..this dude and his bro are very trustworthy..
and even if he is right and govt made him a chay and arrested him, great.
whether he was arrested in bruqa because his story is right or law enforcement;s story is right, he is a two bit terrorist that needs to get chitrol for the rest of his life.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
so you want to say i want to join in when the work is done! sheesh
i find that is the problem we ourselves walk away from religion and then when some one hijacks it we can hardly claim to be innocent. lethargy is lethal.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
i dont know how trustworthy is mush's regime? thats the trouble with person like me, i dont know lal folks but i do know mush is milking this why should i trust him?
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
so you want to say i want to join in when the work is done! sheesh i find that is the problem we ourselves walk away from religion and then when some one hijacks it we can hardly claim to be innocent. lethargy is lethal.
No man, I am not saying that at all. you have no idea how and how much I am involved. It is after being involved I have come up with that opinion.
after all my involvement, i do not see that the 'ummah' is at a place where establishment of 'shariah' is realistic.
so those who want to establish it now, do not get my support. they can go about their business.
its basically like lets agree on a blueprint before building a building and having a grand opening.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
i dont know how trustworthy is mush's regime? thats the trouble with person like me, i dont know lal folks but i do know mush is milking this why should i trust him?
do byou really think if there were no hostages that it would not be over now?
when an atatck is taken and some terrorist facility is destroyed ppl ahve an issue with it, when the govt is taking its time and allowing ppl to cover and even allowing the terrorist to be in touch with media, people have issues.
why dont we say that ghazi is milking it, based on the statement of our 'ulema' why dont we say theya re milking it. I am disgusted at how they dont have the cojones to talk openly and unconditionally about that hostage taking by these ghazi folks. it is always conditional..
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
^hmm i can see what you mean by saying ummah aint ready for it. but then i guess problem originates when there are folks who are willing to work for it and those who have give it up as a lost cause but still claim to be muslims. anarchy at best. dont know what the solution is.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
I think governemt is trying to prolong this issue just to gain more sympathy from their Western masters. Today 10 women members of the Parliament tried to enter to negotiate but government has refused to let anyone inside, including the reporters.
Also the Colonel who was head of this whole operation has also been killed in the fight.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
oh heavens of course i have disagreed with their method from the get go , you must remember my posts in pak affairs however i dont think blame lies with one party. govt should be more responsible since its the govt i mean duh and i dont believe for a second they are doing all they can to solve the situation. i say just get them out even if it means promising something u wont deliver (it wont be the first time mush 
) but there are just so many other people involved and i dont think govt give a crack about them.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
^hmm i can see what you mean by saying ummah aint ready for it. but then i guess problem originates when there are folks who are willing to work for it and those who have give it up as a lost cause but still claim to be muslims. anarchy at best. dont know what the solution is.
there are a lot of issues..it does not mean we stop trying to fix stuff, but we have given contol to teh wrong people..we def have the wrong ppl representing islam the mouthpieces and banner waving foaming and mouth types.
I agree with you 100%, it was among the people in college that was so disgusted at the sectarian and 'madhab' based poltiics of MSA on my campus that I walked away..and recall my mother telling me, u walk away, you allow these people to represent islam to your campus etc. she was 100% right, and I said never again would I sit still and walk away. so I may be a contrarian to certain widely held beliefs, I may be right I may be wrong in many areas, but I am engaged, I am involved and even if it means I have to butt heads with administration of a local mosque and get the militant imam deported..which i btw succeeded in.
the solution is to stay engaged, but rise above cheap slogans and rejecting these political fascists waving the banner of religion as their calling call. ppl liek hizb ul tahrir..ghuraba..and milder version of such groups.
do you ever wonder why darfur is on not on the talking points for our MMA leaders, is the pain only for palestinians and iraqis? cheap political points.
to make a difference and to stay engaged does not mean it has to be political. I mean how about using time and efforts to help muslims around the world, ..humans around the world.
why is establishment of shariah so important when the lives and wellbeing on muslims is so cheap..does the establishment of a shariah based system sort the issues of health, education, poverty right away? no..so why cant we focus our efforts in parallel..and not everyone has to focus their efforts on the same area.
anyways I am rambling..but my point is that if 10% of the people who just talk the talk step away from politics for a second and use soem efforts to help educate people to help their wellbeing, we will see real results..we would be in a very diff state.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
issue with this stuff is that if you bow to terrorists one time then the copycats in future will do the same.
I am all for deception in this case. promise them the damn world, get them out and then kill them, even if it means you give them free pass to some other place and send assassins to kill them. people should know that holdiong hostages is not going to be accepted.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
^yeah well why can you and i think of that but mush cant? if you can be involved with local masjid why cant our beloved head of state be involved? truth to be told he disgusts me more than ghazi brothers, they at worst are misguided and egocenteric fools and mush is a manipulative cunning shark. to show how bad they are, i honestly believe he will let 100 more people die so that he, himself can score points. it reminds me of what one poster said in PA, he makes the same choices a good leader might but for all the wrong reasons and in all the wrong way. i mean doesnt it bother you that a woman might send her daughter or son to this madrassa and now the dead body of that daughter is lying in the mosque causing odour. this is just so beyond wrong and i dont think it will fix anything at all. as a mother i can never ever support the current regime, they are cold ,heartless mercenaries at best.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
The Lal Masjid kind. Weeeee...isn't impartiality so much fun?
And that in no way excuses the "kill em all, damn the hostages" line. And no, if by result of the police...er...sorry, military action any civilians do get killed it WILL be in great part the military's fault. Not American...that whole colat. damage crap doesn't fly.
Its for statements like this that the Pakistani army has been waiting for so many days (I've lost count - we're on the 5th day?), so that at LEAST the women and children can be released. Some are now beginning to question why the army is taking so long to do something that only takes an hour worth of bombing to accomplish. Its because they believe exactly what you do. They don't want those women and children to come to harm, even though its these same women who took up danday to beat people with, as if that's Islamic!
Funny enough, if I strap on some weaponry and do a GI Jane look, these same maulvis would confuse me with a stripper and say I deserve to die in hell for that sort of dress. But apparently hitting people with a stick and wearing a burqa are OK?
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
pcg there are other women inside that building than the students. the madrassa was providing welfare to widows and orphans. those who are questioning why not bomb em all are frankly either incredibly heartless or ignorant. and even if a woman walks around with bamboo stick she doesnt deserve to be blown into bits. i can never fathom people demanding quick justice in a situation like this.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
^yeah well why can you and i think of that but mush cant? if you can be involved with local masjid why cant our beloved head of state be involved? truth to be told he disgusts me more than ghazi brothers, they at worst are misguided and egocenteric fools and mush is a manipulative cunning shark. to show how bad they are, i honestly believe he will let 100 more people die so that he, himself can score points. it reminds me of what one poster said in PA, he makes the same choices a good leader might but for all the wrong reasons and in all the wrong way. i mean doesnt it bother you that a woman might send her daughter or son to this madrassa and now the dead body of that daughter is lying in the mosque causing odour. this is just so beyond wrong and i dont think it will fix anything at all. as a mother i can never ever support the current regime, they are cold ,heartless mercenaries at best.
ghazi is holding people hostage
ghazi wants a free pass to let the hostages go
if he let go without facing any justice, what do you think would other morons do in future.
what does it mean for all the future hostages, or all teh future victims fo these mullahs..because these psychos will know that they can get away just by holding people hostages..even their own students.
if musharraf wanted innocent people to die he would have easily done what putin or reno did.
you are letting your personal dislike for the person cloud your judgement.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
Croquet, what do you think should be the punishment for a criminal? How do you think the government should be handling these situations? How would you feel if these same guys came into your home and kidnapped you and your children and accused you of whoring around?
Would you not want some insaaf?
I agree that there are people in this masjid that may be innocent - they were only there, because their parents sent them there to get some education. But if you've got militants in there who want to overthrow the government and take over leadership by brute force, and they're willing to have all these innocents die for their cause...would you want that kind of leadership? Do you expect its the government's Islamic job to let these things slide?
I'll have you know that Islamically, a government (any body in leadership - whether its a senate or king, or prime minister) has certain rights that the common public does not have!
Administering punishments and hearing out cases and judging people accused of crimes is not my job or yours or your local imam's. There are courts and procedures, and your religion tells you to follow the law of the land, even if it might not be fully Islamic. And that if you want it to become Islamic, there is a more peaceful method of achieving that.
These same Ghazi goons could have used peaceful protests, the media, speeches, meetings, conducted surveys and projects to have certain laws in Pakistan changed to be more Islamic, and to have laws implemented better.
If they wanted prostitution in the capital to end, a great way to achieve that would have been to start tipping the media off as to where the ministers go to get their "services". Then let the media tear the ministers apart with their videotapes and pen. No one would get killed.
The current Lal Masjid approach is putting innocent lives in danger, using suicide as a tool, and using brute force as a tool. Show me some evidence of the Prophet EVER using such approaches so suddenly and skipping peaceful methods of achieving his goals???
Of course, you can't present me with this evidence, and so its only natural to conclude that their behavior is absurdly unIslamic.
How can you possibly expect the Pakistani government to respond to unIslamic actions? Keep in mind, you want the gov't to be Islamic...right?
That would leave the government NO choice BUT to react harshly against the Ghazi brothers.
Therefore your criticisms of the government serve to do nothing but further unIslamic behavior in Pakistan.
That's not really any better than a horny minister, now is it?
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
pcg there are other women inside that building than the students. the madrassa was providing welfare to widows and orphans. those who are questioning why not bomb em all are frankly either incredibly heartless or ignorant. and even if a woman walks around with bamboo stick she doesnt deserve to be blown into bits. i can never fathom people demanding quick justice in a situation like this.
why did the people not leave when they had the option especially when they were given plenty of opportuntiies, if theyu chose not to then they are responsible for the situation they find themselves in, if they were prevented from going out then the responsibility rests with the people who prevented them from leaving.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
No actually its because there are people who bark the Sahabas so this is just a reaction.
More excuses for terrorism and targeted killings of hundreds of shias. Couldn't expect anything less from you.
Don't agree with someone, kill him. This is what it will be under "sharia" rule of mullahs.