Re: Wake up Pakistan!
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where in Islam could u find a similar example? Apart from Abdullah Ibne ZIyad, one of Imam Hussein's killer who tied himself to the bottom of a camel and did a runner to escape army of Mukhtar bin Saqafee. Perhaps he was his inspiration!
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it was just taqqiyah ...hopefully his disciples will never dispute over that again !
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
There are many poor kids in many madrissas across the country. orphans, or from families that are poor or have too many kids and cant feed them.
the social support system in teh country is a mess. although there are several groups that take orphans in as well, edhi is one. somehow these kids wind up in these madrissas..i guess they are too young tio decide where to go so someone takes them there, whether its an elder townsperson or relative or ppl with affiliations with these madrissas find them.
so you can balme the lack of social services you can blame poverty you can blame lack of family planning
but...
in the end, teh blame rests with these terrorists for holding these kids hostage. There are kids that wind up at edhi as well, also at kashana, and they are not held as human shields by the people there.
i already said holding them hostage is an appalling thing. what's worse that you think by yelling anti mullah this and that the problem is fixed, its clearly far from fixed.the question that needs to be answered is why do people fall behind these mullahs?what leads them to think that this is the best option they have available?but what can one do with a hate filled mind set? mostly these kids then grow into staunch students and then what happens to the students we already witnessed in waziristan bombing. nobody even knows the age group of people in that camp. just bomb em?i have seen people congradulating as if the govt has accomplished something, just what exactly is the accomplishment i fail to see. i know that in bajour agency the age group was from 20 to 30, in western coutnries you have juvenile centres till the age of 25 but in Pakistan we just bomb them. even this situation spiralled out of control due to negligence of govt and i dont see how i can feel elated with 20 dead and hate spread amongst us.its a very morbid world where people cheer on blood shed amongst themselves. unlike alot of folks i dont think those female students should be marched naked, or made a slave of nor do i think that the male students need to gassed and mosque needs to be levelled.how does that fix anything? ignore the root cause just dance up and down for achieving zilch.i dont believe any pakistani with compassionate heart can be happy about things right now.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
Here's another general rule - don't negotiate with terrorists.
Well, here's a proviso to that rule: don't act like a terrorist, and have the guts to call others terrorist.
And re-read the lal masjid mega thread...we got some sick minds here that want to do what we'd typically attribute to 'terrorists'.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
i already said holding them hostage is an appalling thing. what's worse that you think by yelling anti mullah this and that the problem is fixed, its clearly far from fixed.the question that needs to be answered is why do people fall behind these mullahs?what leads them to think that this is the best option they have available?but what can one do with a hate filled mind set? mostly these kids then grow into staunch students and then what happens to the students we already witnessed in waziristan bombing. nobody even knows the age group of people in that camp. just bomb em?i have seen people congradulating as if the govt has accomplished something, just what exactly is the accomplishment i fail to see. i know that in bajour agency the age group was from 20 to 30, in western coutnries you have juvenile centres till the age of 25 but in Pakistan we just bomb them. even this situation spiralled out of control due to negligence of govt and i dont see how i can feel elated with 20 dead and hate spread amongst us.its a very morbid world where people cheer on blood shed amongst themselves. unlike alot of folks i dont think those female students should be marched naked, or made a slave of nor do i think that the male students need to gassed and mosque needs to be levelled.how does that fix anything? ignore the root cause just dance up and down for achieving zilch.i dont believe any pakistani with compassionate heart can be happy about things right now.
I have factored in the various conditions and situations that make people as easy prey. However, I simply am not able to give a free pass to these idiot militant mullah types that are brainwashing kids.
They need to be stopped. They are the problem here, not anyone else.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
if i had a control on army... i would have given them the permission to attack and kill every single person in that mosque..i would not even say it a mosque.... a mosque is a place where u take the name of Allah , teach love etc..
These mullahs are behaving as if Islam is the religion that their daddys brought.... just look at other countries...look at how they're progressing... look at canada for example... almost all the nationality people live here and they're living peacefully.. why cant Pakistani just mind their own business??...
i was just watching this ARY coverage and saw the student of red mosque holding guns and the face masks.... i mean where the heck did they get those??.. is this what you call the real teaching of islam???..is this really jihad??.. killing ur own muslim brothers/sisters? and for what though??
Like really... they need to be STOPPED!!!... cant they freaking live peacefully...fod God sake.. its really tough to live as a muslim following islam in foreign countries..
For those who have seen the Earth from space, and for the 100s and perhaps 1000s more who will....the experience most certainly changes your perspective. The things that we share in our world are far more valuable than those which divide us...
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
frozenfire
I think the problem is that this ghazi goon his pals and the type of gusy u saw in photos with guns and masks, are holding kids hostage, so u cant just go in and blow the place up.
so there are some people's heroes...hiding behind kids...
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
if the govt ever cared to enforce islamic laws in pakistan mullahs like him would have never had a chance to make such a show of strenght ...so the primary responsibility rests with the govt. The main reason mullahs has emerged in muslim societies is because the govts have abandoned the rules of shariah .....in islam there is no seperation of religion and state but they are not the primary threat to islam just an irritant ......the real problem are the feudals and corrupt generals who run the whole country ...and the "moderate muslims " who always blame just the mullahs for perverting Islam never protest against the govts for confining Islam only to the mosques
And if the govnt had enforced shia sharia, no shia groups would have committed terrorist attacks. And if the govnt had enforced sunni sharia, no sunni groups would have committed terrorist attacks. And if the govnt had enforced deobandi sharia, no deobandi groups would have committed terrorist attacks. etc. etc.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
And if the govnt had enforced shia sharia, no shia groups would have committed terrorist attacks. And if the govnt had enforced sunni sharia, no sunni groups would have committed terrorist attacks. And if the govnt had enforced deobandi sharia, no deobandi groups would have committed terrorist attacks. etc. etc.
so true....
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
And if the govnt had enforced shia sharia, no shia groups would have committed terrorist attacks. And if the govnt had enforced sunni sharia, no sunni groups would have committed terrorist attacks. And if the govnt had enforced deobandi sharia, no deobandi groups would have committed terrorist attacks. etc. etc.
true...but only partly ......is the govt of musharraf enforcing shia sharia that the sunnis are protesting?
the secularist will always make the excuse that the muslims are too deeply divided that the enforcement of one sharia is not practical , while that may be the reality for now ...it does not mean that we give up all attempts to repair the damages done in the past 1400 yrs...still there are many things common to all fiqahs which can be enforced ....and the minority fiqah will have to accomadate the others to a certain extent
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
true...but only partly ......is the govt of musharraf enforcing shia sharia that the sunnis are protesting? the secularist will always make the excuse that the muslims are too deeply divided that the enforcement of one sharia is not practical , while that may be the reality for now ...it does not mean that we give up all attempts to repair the damages done in the past 1400 yrs...still there are many things common to all fiqahs which can be enforced ....and the minority fiqah will have to accomadate the others to a certain extent
hey man 'secularists' dont have to make the excuse that muslims are divided. the events in Iraq now, and the shia sunni violence in Pakistan shows that fairly clearly.
On thsi very baord as people call each other kaffir due to different interpretations, there is no
I agree repairs need to be made, but no implementation of any shariah until the repair has been done and people can atleast have some common base of agreement.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
^ the seeds of the shia-sunni conflict in iraq was the pagan secularist saddam
I dont dispute the fact that shia and sunnis are bitterly divided but do you have a better solution than the enforcement of atleast the basics of shariah to bring about a recouncilation amongst them?
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
true...but only partly ......is the govt of musharraf enforcing shia sharia that the sunnis are protesting? the secularist will always make the excuse that the muslims are too deeply divided that the enforcement of one sharia is not practical , while that may be the reality for now ...it does not mean that we give up all attempts to repair the damages done in the past 1400 yrs...still there are many things common to all fiqahs which can be enforced ....and the minority fiqah will have to accomadate the others to a certain extent
So very true. Indeed, traditionalists are even willing to let Christians and other non-Muslims have their own legal code...it's insane to think that all Muslims would insist on a unified Sharia without respect to sect.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
^ the seeds of the shia-sunni conflict in iraq was the pagan secularist saddam I dont dispute the fact that shia and sunnis are bitterly divided but do you have a better solution than the enforcement of atleast the basics of shariah to bring about a recouncilation amongst them?
Yes, it's called secularism where your religion/sect is your personal matter. Works pretty well in most of the world. We have seen taliban sharia and it failed.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
So very true. Indeed, traditionalists are even willing to let Christians and other non-Muslims have their own legal code...it's insane to think that all Muslims would insist on a unified Sharia without respect to sect.
Of course, haven't you listened to anything mullahs have been saying? They all want their version of sharia. Do you think SSP and related groups will be happy with any sharia that considers non deobandi sunni muslims as muslims also?
Some of you people need to wake up. It's sad that even after the lal masjid incident, you people can't understand the danger of letting mullahs interpret/enforce laws. Mullahs should be put in mental institutions, instead of asked to interpret laws.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
^ the only reason people like SSP have become the flagbearers of shariah is because people like you and me have forsaken the political islam
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
^exactly we have allowed others to hijack the religion and later we cry but this is not islam.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
jazakallah bro...we are indeed hypocrites,and the first step towards correcting it is recognizing the problem
I have seen people always criticizing "jaahil mullahs " but how many of us the so-called educated upper middle class yuppies actually care to get our children some formal religious education ? apart from just recitation of quran ironically from the same "jaahil mullahs"
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
^ the only reason people like SSP have become the flagbearers of shariah is because people like you and me have forsaken the political islam
No actually its because there are people who bark the Sahabas so this is just a reaction.
Re: Wake up Pakistan!
^ the seeds of the shia-sunni conflict in iraq was the pagan secularist saddam I dont dispute the fact that shia and sunnis are bitterly divided but do you have a better solution than the enforcement of atleast the basics of shariah to bring about a recouncilation amongst them?
yeah.. i do. a non shariah system a functioning real democracy..where everyone keeps their religion as their personal business.
as far as seeds of shia-sunnio conflict, yeah lets just blame outsidwers, if our religiously inclined ppl are so stupid that any tom dick and harru and convince them to go kill each other en masse, then I dont think ppl like that need to have a role deciding on palcement of garbage cans let alone running a country.