Dont think “you can” know “you can”
.::. ¢¼ ﷲ ﻼﺃ ﷲﺃ ﻶ ¢¼ .::.
Flamzz, what is point of your reply? And atleast differentiate(for other readers) which one is your reply and what I wrote!
[This message has been edited by Serial Guppy (edited April 12, 2002).]
Wahabis ALWAYS tell people that there is NO SUCH thing as Wahabism. Yet even though they claim this, they go to great lengths to defend this “non-existent” Wahabsim. They cry, jump, whine, and moan over this, but will NEVER accept that instead of being Muslim they are in fact Wahabi cultists.
BTW, Salafi is the code name for Wahabi.
Oh and also they blame anyone who opposed Wahabis as trying to creat “rifts in the Ummah”. I wonder how someone can create rifts in the Ummah by talking against Wahabis, since Wahabis don’t even exist?
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Brother Faraz i’ve tried to stay out of this useless conversation, but you are testing my limits now. I’ve noticed many brothers being patient with you, but there is still no change in your behavior. Since you are so against ‘wahabis’ and salafis can you plz just give me some evidence, atleast just ONE that proves that they are not upon the sunnah. Brother i don’t come here to argue, but to learn and teach from the little knowledge i have, hoping to maybe help my fellow brothers and sisters in islam, and it really hurts me to see how muslim brothers are treating each other, I’m talking about everyone I’m not at all saying to ignore something that is incorrect, but isn’t there another way to address a person. We all are learning, and have the same goal, can’t we help each other??
I ask you once again to think about this hadiths…(The Messenger of Allah(saws) said:‘You shall not enter paradise until you believe, and you shall not believe until you love one another. Shall i not inform you of something, if you were to act upon it, you will indeed achieve mutual love for one another? Spread the greeting amongst yourselves’)
Jazak’Allah Khairun
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‘Allahumma faiyamaa mauminen sababtuhu faj’al dalaka lahu qurbataan elaiyka yaumal kiya mati’ (O Allah, to any believer whom I have insulted, let that be cause to draw him near to You on the Day of Resurrection)
[quote]
Originally posted by appkiamaanat:
**
I ask you once again to think about this hadiths...(The Messenger of Allah(saws) said:'You shall not enter paradise until you believe, and you shall not believe until you love one another. Shall i not inform you of something, if you were to act upon it, you will indeed achieve mutual love for one another? Spread the greeting amongst yourselves')
**
[/quote]
Well said, but I wonder then why are fanatical wahabi extremists so full of hate and malice towards every other living being but themselves? Why are their so many groupsl like Al-Qaeda, SSP, JeM, LET, and countless others who follow Salifsm/Wahabism and commit terrosit murders aroudn the world in the name of their god Abdul Wahab?
What good will it do me if I provide you proof of Wahabism being against the very basic tents of Islam? The evidentiary proof is out their for every human being to see. Every day when Mullahs influenced by these extremist ideologies declare fatwa on kafirs, persecute non-Muslims in Muslim countries, commit terrorist acts against innocent people, spread their hate speech, they make their true intentions known to the whole world.
And most of these groups and people involved in this are Wahabi influenced and very orthodox and puritanical, you cannot deny this. The intolerant teachings of Abdul Wahab lead people to emotio0nalism and ultimately terrorism under the guise of legitimate jihad.
The evidence about Wahabism evil influence is out their in every newspaper concerning Muslims through the world. I don't need to prove to you that it is against the Sunnah, all you have to do is read how many shias were killed in Pakistan today, how many Christians were convicted on blasphemy charges, how many mullahs called for death to infidels, and that's just Pakistan. What matters most are the actions of Muslims today, and evidence shows, Muslims influenced most by Wahabism tend to drift further away from the path of Islam to the path of violence and extremism.
Islam was never so intolerant or violent. So, what happened? Well, Saudi Arabia got rich through oil and spread its Wahabism everywhere, that's what happened, though their were other factors to, but Wahabism is the most prominent. So now we know what the problem is, we have to eradicate it. Unfortunately, many Muslims still cannot identify the problem we face, because blaming and attacking kafirs is oh so sexier.
Lastly, before telling me to spread love, you should inform the ignorant Mullahs of this world to spread love instead of hatred towards not only non-Muslims but other Muslims too!
Faraz since you were humiliated in the other thread you come here with same heretic and hateful remarks about something which you have no knowledge of and I bet you do not have any proof or reference to stand on!
Lets see you reply to the “chalenge” that one of the guppy presented to you… are you man enough to take upon the task or will you run?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/004806-3.html
Tell us what do “wahabis” do that is so unislamic? Tell us if you have read books of Abdul Wahab and where does he contradict the Quran and Sunnah of prophet? Don’t keep on writing lies and desperate thoughts about “wahabis” just because they stop YOU from doing unislamic things(taveez ganda, peer fakeers, milads and melas, and other non-sense you people learned from hindus…as way of worship and respecting the prophet(pbuh) ), bring your proofs and references and tell us what do “wahabis” do that is so against Islam from their books and from Quran and Sunnah!
Even though I doubt that you have ANY knowledge of Islam or “wahabis” but I will still THANK you in advance for trying.
Faraz Mir- Wow. Finally, a reply from you which was not full of slander. Progress. So then what you SHOULD be saying is that the problem with muslims these days is that many of them have learned to hate. And that too because of the circumstances they have been in.
So a good way of approach would be to remove this hate, by being kind and brotherly to your fellow muslims so that they may learn off you, posting on the net about how wahabis are fanatics, full of hate, and that they must be eradicated serves no real purpose, instead it only fuels the heat. Do you agree?
[quote]
Originally posted by Faraz Mir:
** Well said, but I wonder then why are fanatical wahabi extremists so full of hate and malice towards every other living being but themselves? Why are their so many groupsl like Al-Qaeda, SSP, JeM, LET, and countless others who follow Salifsm/Wahabism and commit terrosit murders aroudn the world in the name of their god Abdul Wahab?
What good will it do me if I provide you proof of Wahabism being against the very basic tents of Islam? The evidentiary proof is out their for every human being to see. Every day when Mullahs influenced by these extremist ideologies declare fatwa on kafirs, persecute non-Muslims in Muslim countries, commit terrorist acts against innocent people, spread their hate speech, they make their true intentions known to the whole world.
And most of these groups and people involved in this are Wahabi influenced and very orthodox and puritanical, you cannot deny this. The intolerant teachings of Abdul Wahab lead people to emotio0nalism and ultimately terrorism under the guise of legitimate jihad.
The evidence about Wahabism evil influence is out their in every newspaper concerning Muslims through the world. I don't need to prove to you that it is against the Sunnah, all you have to do is read how many shias were killed in Pakistan today, how many Christians were convicted on blasphemy charges, how many mullahs called for death to infidels, and that's just Pakistan. What matters most are the actions of Muslims today, and evidence shows, Muslims influenced most by Wahabism tend to drift further away from the path of Islam to the path of violence and extremism.
Islam was never so intolerant or violent. So, what happened? Well, Saudi Arabia got rich through oil and spread its Wahabism everywhere, that's what happened, though their were other factors to, but Wahabism is the most prominent. So now we know what the problem is, we have to eradicate it. Unfortunately, many Muslims still cannot identify the problem we face, because blaming and attacking kafirs is oh so sexier.
Lastly, before telling me to spread love, you should inform the ignorant Mullahs of this world to spread love instead of hatred towards not only non-Muslims but other Muslims too!**
[/quote]
Brother Faraz, maybe you are talking from experience, and maybe there are people who label themselves as 'wahabis' but are really creating fitna, THESE PEOPLE HAVE LEFT THE SUNNAH, THEY ARE NOT ON THE AQEEDAH OF SALIF-AS-SALAH. And we(people you are calling wahabis on this board) don't support them. Alhumdullilah.
Now dear brother what do you find incorrect or something that goes against Islam from the teachings of Abdul Wahab?? I ask you once again, to plz state your sources...and insh'Allah maybe all of us muslim brothers and sisters can find the truth together
It is not befitting for us to attempt to free our souls and leave the rest to wither away, for it is our obligation to speak up as the messenger of Allah(Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam) said, 'whoever sees an evil deed, then let him change it with his hand, if he cannot, then with his tongue, and if he cannot then with his heart, and that is the weakest of Imaan'
Brother we all our learning each and everyday, and it is our *duty * to correct one another, i hope you can help me, and insh'Allah maybe i will also be able to help you in someway.
appkiamaanat, I have already posted a link in another topic exposing the wrong beliefs of Wahabis/Salafis.
But my basic contention is this: Abdul Wahab preached a strict, tyrannical, authoritarian form of Islam devoid of any mysticism that Islam has always had. This fundamentally chanegd Islam for Wahab's followers and is changed all the Islamic world slowly.
When you introduce such a rigid belief system to Islam, where many Muslims already don't believe in separation of mosque and the sate, and consider Islam a way of life, you get something that is very ugly and dangerous. And this is what has sprked the intolerance, violence, and general backwardness that can be witnessed of Muslims today.
Muslims not affected by Wahabism tend to be less intolerant, exceptions to this are the Mullah regime in Iran. So when you introduce a concept that teaches people that kafirs are never to be trusted, and kafirs are sub-human and always lying etc, you top the intolerance with a healthy dose of so-called "jihad" leading us to disastrous results.
It is important that Muslims once again re-learn that old customs-tolerance of everyone who is different.
Where is your proof for above, you are shouting kafirs, kafirs on top of your lungs and no one is listenting to you. You know why? Bring your proof if not then keep shut. Don’t tell lies which you learned from anti-islamic sites and people who never read what Abdul Wahab actually wrote and preached. It was totally based upon Sahi books of Hadeeths and Quran. All you need to do is read his books, there is nothing new or “tyrannical” in them.
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Its a shame that you tell lies and disinformation about others and then you have guts to call others kafirs when you are violating the most basic tenet of Quran. How hypocritical!
Moderator, please take care of this hate monger.
Aaah! Atleast you are using google to search for “something,” even though its polutting your already polluted mind. Now I know where that hate comes from, well you read hate you write hate.
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Faraz, are you a brailvi?
Wahabhism is spreading amongst sunnis like a cancer. Thanks to big bucks spent by dear old Saudi Arabia's royals.
Is that the best you can do? I thought you would at least call me a Shia or Jew again? I know that baralvis are considerd kafir by Wahabis, but I have disappoint you and tell you that I am a Hanifi. Or have they also been declared kafirs by Wahabis? I don’t keep up on my “who’s a kafir list” anymore.
This devious sect has already been exposed my friend. No need for me to write more about it. The case is closed.
Brailvies kafir? Man, I told you who is muslim and who is not rest solely upon ALLAH not on some “wahabi” cleric which only exists in your imagination. But, where did you get this " I KNOW " that “wahabis” say brailvies are kafirs? You already lost your credibility as far as facts are concerned, don’t lose your dignity by posting lies and disinformation. Unless you have facts and references from “WAHABI” books.
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I think you have some “personal” problem with “wahabis” rather than it being on an “islamic” grounds or concerned with SUNNAH and Quran. What ever that personal problem is, we don’t wanna know. Keep burning in your fire of hate for all that we care.
“And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allaah is Most Merciful to you”[al-Nisa’ 4:29]
6:159 As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
Don’t spread hatred and don’t divide Islam, you are going against quranic principles and then you come here declaring other people kafir and saying “how evil” they are? Shame on you and your blind hypocrisy.
[This message has been edited by Serial Guppy (edited April 15, 2002).]
Faraz
I notice that you state that you are from the Hanafi School of Thought, even though in your previous posts you advocated taking the Jews as role models, rather than Muslims.
I wonder if the Hanafi School teaches you this! I doubt it, but nevertheless.
Anyway, getting back to the topic. It would be beneficial for the rest of the Guppies if you can elaborate your understanding on the Four predominant Schools of Thought, namely Hanafi, Maliki, Sha'afi and Hanbali and why they were set up?
In addition, which School of Thought did the Sahaaba and Taba'een follow.
Finally, which School of Thought did this Abdul Wahaab follow?
Please do answer as we are here to debate and share info!!!!!!!
No cut'n' pastes.
[quote]
Originally posted by Serial Guppy:
**
“And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allaah is Most Merciful to you”[al-Nisa’ 4:29]
6:159 As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
**
[/quote]
My point EXACTLY. Where are Wahabi-influenced terrorists killing Muslims and non-Muslims around the world? Where are they trying to divide shias from sunnis, hanafis from barelvis?
And yes their are groups of Wahabis in Pakistan who consider barelvis as kafirs. I have listened to their tapes where they say that the onyl path of Islam is through the teachings of Abdul Wahab, and everyone else is kafir. Of course you wil not see this mentioend in any Wahabi book, becuase Wahabis try to fool ordinaray people about their true intentions and agenda.
I ask all of you to go to Pakistan and visit a REAL Wahabi madrassah and take to a Wahabi Mullah. It will open your eyes, like it has mine.
You should contact your local JUI or SSP to get into to touch with these people. But make sure you do NOT question the Wahabi Mullah about Islam. Just say YES to anything he says, because if you disagree with him on anything and provide facts against his thinking, he will get VERY MAD and kill you with his AK-47. I'm not joking, they're all like this.
You're worried about books, but if you meet a real Wahabi Jihadi Mullah, you'll know exactly what I mean when I call these people ignorant.
My opinion on Wahabis was not just made up overnight, but I have some experiance with these people.
My point EXACTLY. Where are Wahabi-influenced terrorists killing Muslims and non-Muslims around the world? Where are they trying to divide shias from sunnis, hanafis from barelvis?
*HUH? Again no evidence of proof, just statements full of hatred and accusation.
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*And yes their are groups of Wahabis in Pakistan who consider barelvis as kafirs. I have listened to their tapes where they say that the onyl path of Islam is through the teachings of Abdul Wahab, and everyone else is kafir. Of course you wil not see this mentioend in any Wahabi book, becuase Wahabis try to fool ordinaray people about their true intentions and agenda. *
****Ok, “groups of wahabis,” what da hell man? Bring on the facts, tell me which book of abdul wahab says that everyone else is kafir? Give me PAGE number, volume number. I bet you don’t even know the names of his books or read anyone of them. You are just saying that because you have hate in your heart based upon false and disinformation from the enemies of Islam. You are a EXTREMISt and a TRUE TERRORIST, who is attacking islam on basis of lies and distorted info, yet so far you have not provided any evidence to back up your claim. You are ZERO credibility in the eyes of truth loving guppies and as far as facts are concerened. Try again, harder you fanatic.
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**
I ask all of you to go to Pakistan and visit a REAL Wahabi madrassah and take to a Wahabi Mullah. It will open your eyes, like it has mine.
***You mind naming one of them? How does that connect with “teachings” of Abdul wahab in his books?
You should contact your local JUI or SSP to get into to touch with these people. But make sure you do NOT question the Wahabi Mullah about Islam. Just say YES to anything he says, because if you disagree with him on anything and provide facts against his thinking, he will get VERY MAD and kill you with his AK-47. I’m not joking, they’re all like this.
****Oh really, I am scared now. Why did he spare you then? I think you stated earlier that you have experienced all there is about “wahabism,” and now you are here preaching hatred against them? Why didn’t he kill you too, huh? Don’t you get tired of telling lies and false information in order to promote your own personal agenda and stop people who stop others from innovating news ways of worship and doing things which have no basis in Islam? “wahabis” as far as I know, only tell you thinks from SAHI books and Quran. You might have trouble digesting facts, but don’t call them bad because you can’t adapt to facts and truthful information! And that is your problem, you practice things which have no basis in Islam(taveen ganday, peer fakeers, going on graves of saints and praying to them, asking them for help instead of all, and other hindu-related BS that you people innovate into Islam…) and then you have trouble dealing with facts that those things do not have any basis in Islam what so ever. Which in turn makes you create lies and tell the tales of how bad “wahabis,” because they say stick to SUNNAH of the Prophet and Quran and not some hindu/jew rituals. This should be moment of shame for you and your cult members.
You’re worried about books, but if you meet a real Wahabi Jihadi Mullah, you’ll know exactly what I mean when I call these people ignorant.
*******You seem to have an agenda behind your lies and hypocrictical attitude. That agenda is keep repeating false information and lies and people will believe you. Well, it ain’t so. Those who THINK they have the knowledge and call others ignorant, are the most ignorant of all. Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity in your case is beyond any help.
Bring your facts from BOOKs, that you have never read or heard of. You have some personal problems with someone who told you FACTs and now you are venting your anger cowardly by sitting in front of your monitor instead of dealing with the facts.**
My opinion on Wahabis was not just made up overnight, but I have some experiance with these people.
******** You are entitled to your opinion, but not lies and disinformation you tell about others. You do not have any experience, you are lying right and left just to get some credibility in your false, weak, totally wrong argument. Guess what? You don’t earn credibility by stating you have experience and you have met this and that… you get credibility by presenting facts and LISTENING to facts when someone tells you not keep repeating the same lies over and over again like hitler and expect rational people to believe your cowardly heretic, hateful remarks outright.
You need to stop repeating the lies and start to read and find what real facts are. Unless you have problem with facts and telling the truth… then may Allah guide you to the straight path of SUNNAH and Quran and stop you from creating hate and division in Islam on sectarian grounds. We already have enough, we don’t need a extremist fanatic terrorist like you to make matters worst with your lies and illbased DISinformation.**
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(writing in BOLD/BOLD-italic are my answers)
[This message has been edited by Serial Guppy (edited April 15, 2002).]
Books? Why so worried about books? Your argument is the same over and over again.
SHOW ME BOOKS
SHOW ME BOOKS
SHOW ME BOOKS
This world unfortunately does not revolve around books. If we were to get out of your cave you would know what these people are all about. Reality is far different then what you find in books.
And unfortunately I did not save the hate propaganda I got from SSP. But you can go to Karachi and visit any of the offices of JEM, LET, SSP and many other smaller groups. And ask ANY of their Mullahs for their literature or audio tapes.
The evidence is all over Pakistan. You just have to look for it. It will not be handed over to you in basket.
I have with my own ears listened to tapes of SSP preaching that killing Shias will land you in Jannat.
I have listened with my own ears to the sermon of Mulana Masood Azhar's second-in-command in a Karachi mosque. He said kill the kafir, and make no distinction between civilian or military among other things.
I have with my own eyes read the Jihad newsletter of Lashkar e Jhangvi. It openly stated that barelvis were kafirs!
Next time I go to Pakistan, I will remember to save this and have it scanned so I can show it to you all. Maybe then I'll be accused of faking it on the orders of CIA.
And all these people openly admit their strong influence from the teachings of Abdul Wahab.
1+1=2
Well, if “wahabism” is so different from islam and is a “sect,” they must have some horrible books where you got the information from?
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THey must have some medium which teaches them “hate, intolerance, suicide bombing, etc.” that you say they do…huh?
You have proven again and again that you are a arch liar. Who makes statements up as form of source and says, “i have experienced, I met this muallah, I did this,” that might help the close minded inviduals but it does not help the mass population which is fact/truth oriented and want to see some solid proofs and evidence. But since you have proven to be lacking in any credibility whatsoever, I don’t think anyone here believes your hateful, heretic, stupid, intolerant comments and lies. Why don’t you try adopting to facts and truth, maybe that will settle down the raging bull inside you with hate and false information?
Do you then disgaree with me that Wahabism teaches that Sufis are kafirs?
Do you disagree that Wahabism teaches it is the only to get too jannat and everyone else is wrong?
Do you disagree with me that Wahabism promotes a rigid belief without the fundamental notion of mystiscism that exists in real Islam?
This ALONE is the source of the probelm. This is from where the neo-Wahabi Mullahs base theri hateful teachigs from. One you change the fundamentlas of Islam to become intolerant, you will have to deal with all this in-fighting where one sect is going after another sect and every else is ak afir.
Washibism is the root source of all this terrorism and hatred. Prophet Muhammed or any other fiqh or sect never taught us to hate other Muslims, now did he?