Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
Yep.
Asa Allah said in the Qur'aan
"Those to whom We gave the Scripture (Jews and Christians) recognise him (Muhammad or the Ka'bah at Makkah) as they recongise their sons. But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it - *. (Al-Baqarah 2:146)"
they know Islaam is the truth but they wanna enjoy the world.
"Know that the life of this world is only play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children, as the likeness of vegetation after rain, thereof the growth is pleasing to the tiller; afterwards it dries up and you see it turning yellow; then it becomes straw. But in the Hereafter (there is) a severe torment (for the disbelievers, evil-doers), and (there is) Forgiveness from Allâh and (His) Good Pleasure (for the believers, good-doers), whereas the life of this world is only a deceiving enjoyment." (Al-Hadid 57:20)*
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
ok, so how about a compromise here. Its very understandable when there are places too Holy for non-beleivers to visit and just about all religions have them. So what about a "visitors center" somewhere near Mecca and Medina, where people are shown video or slides, are shown the prayers with translation, are shown movies of Haaj.
There has been too much mystery surrounding Islaam and this is at least in good part the fault of Muslims treating those of other faiths as "unclean" or worse, I think i even read somewhere in this thread someone's response that they would not want to have a non-muslim in their house for more than a shared meal. Once Islaam becomes less of a mystery and lets those of other faiths explore and see for themselves that its a good and beautiful thing, there will be much more peace and harmony in the world...and possibly many more Muslims too!
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
Mama, you can get movies and translations of Hajj pretty much everywhere in the world. You don't need to be in Mecca/Madina of even in the Middle East for that. National Geographic and PBS have done so many specials on these two cities, you can buy it from Amazon.
Plenty of westerners can travel to most major cities in Saudi, just not within these two holy cities. You already have westerners nearly everywhere else in Saudi Arabia. I don't really see what the big deal is ... but then again, I've been to both Mecca and Madina. :p
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
Man! which religion do you follow? Imam Abu Hanifa is a giant when it comes to setting up sharia. Since he doesn’t suit your Mullahtic purposes, you are ready to ditch the poor guy?
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
That’s absolutely correct. When you try to hide, people become suspicious of even most ordinary things.
Muslims have the least to fear when it comes to their religion. This is a wonderful collection of Judaism and Christianity.
You talk about Jesus. We say He was a messenger of God and a savior. You talk about his holy birth, we say Amen brother / sister. You say Jesus was a true healer of the sick. We say yes off course.
We say Jesus was messenger but Mary (Maryam) was a messenger too. Now here is a neat concept of having a lady as a messenger. Isn’t it?
You talk about Moses. We say he was the true Messenger. You talk about holy books and we say Torah and Bible are sacred to us.
That sort of thingy puts Muslims as best “buddies” of both Christians and Jewish people. Why? A true Muslim by his faith is a Christian as well as a Jew.
However these days we have these Mullahs who come out of tiny villages with zero knowledge about human beings and then they try to run the whole world. Off course it is not going to work. So these Mullahs become frustrated and start burning and looting instead of being constructive members of this world.
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
I understand this Mehnazq but truly...if you went to Rome, wouldnt you at least stop by the Vatican and want to see whatever you could of it? Wouldnt you be rather put off if you were disallowed to come near the place at all? As if you were dirty? So much nicer to be welcomed and shown some things in a respectful and educational manner. This goes for ANY place of worship I think...ANYONE should be welcomed and taught, never shunned, they can be politely and respectfully kept from the most Holy of places or from the most holy of services, but ALWYAYs taught and shown as much as possible without disrespecting the religion...watching TV just isnt the same.
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
antiobl if bring forth yr evidence to say they are allowed to visit mecca and medina from qur'aan or sunnah! lets keep it simple cos u r talkin from yr whims and desires.
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
Mr Faisal, can you please take a step back, read my latest posts and respond to those? Stop looking for "evidence" and "proof" of exactly who can set foot in your holy places. And answer whether you think the rest of the world should be "allowed" to SEE and perhaps even experience Islaam....
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
There is not much to see in Mecca/Madina other than the holy places which you wouldn't be allowed anywhere near. You can get lots of religious knowledge in Jedda which, I believe, is about half an hour away. :) Nobody is calling you dirty. Wanting to get knowledge is great and there are great sources of education out there where you can learn from.
A bit off topic ....
If you were at the Vatican, would you behave yourself? I'm sure you as an individual would, but I just don't see others doing it. Believe me, I have travelled all over Europe and have seen the way people behave at various cultural/religious sites. Not everybody has the same level of respect and appreciation that you and I may have and it doesn't matter what religion you are. At the end of the day, individual people have individual traits and it is difficult to make everybody behave themselves at places of significance. It's even difficult to make Muslims behave themselves in Mecca!
Question, how would you control the hate mongers who want to blow up the holy masjid in Mecca? Once you allow people into the city, you can't keep them chained to a bus that will take you around and show you the area. Would we make them sign papers saying they aren't going to cause trouble? Not very practical.
Mind you, I'm not talking from a religious point of view at all and have not read the rest of the thread so I have no idea what others are thinking on the same topic.
Experiencing Islam isn't limited to these two cities Mama, surely you know that. :)
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
there is no ref here for me to refer back to brother. we need a ref. dnt jus simply say and expect me to believe.
anyway again here is my evidence for not allowing them in which includes the saying of the Prophet.
"Expel the mushrikeen (polytheists) from the Arabian peninsula"Bukhaari 2932 and muslim 3089)
It is not permissible allow the kuffaar to take up residence in the Arabian Peninsula. The scholars differed at to the definition of the boundaries of the Arabian Peninsula, but they did not differ as to the fact that Madeenah is part of it.
Ibn Qudaamah said:
It is not permissible for any of them (the kuffaar) to live in the Hijaaz. This is the view of Maalik and al-Shaafa?i, but Maalik said: I think that they should be expelled from all the Arab lands, because the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ?Two religions cannot coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.? Abu Dawood narrated with his isnaad from ?Umar that he heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ?I will certainly expel the Jews and the Christians from the Arabian Peninsula, and I will not leave anyone there but Muslims.? Al-Tirmidhi said: this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. And it was narrated that Ibn ?Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) left behind three instructions. He said: Expel the mushrikeen from the Arabian Peninsula, honour the delegations the way that I do, and he kept quiet about the third. Narrated by Abu Dawood.
Al-Mughni, 9/285, 286.
Secondly:
It is permissible for kuffaar to enter Madeenah for the purposes of trade, without staying there. They should be given enough time (to complete their business) then they should be told to leave. Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
It is permissible for them to enter the Hijaaz for the purpose of trade, because the Christians used to trade with Madeenah at the time of ?Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him). An old Christian man came to him in Madeenah and said: ?I am an old Christian man and your agent has taken the tithe from me twice.? ?Umar said: ?I am an old monotheist (haneef) man,? and ?Umar wrote to the agent and said: ?Only take the tithe once in a year, and do not allow them to stay for more than three days.? This is what was narrated from ?Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) and they should leave after that. Al-Qaadi said: Four days is the limit after which a traveller must offer prayers in full.
Al-Mughni, 9/286.
and if your thinkin why evidence? it is because Allah said in the Qur’aan “bring forth your proof if you are truthful” 1:111
yes we need evidence and for you to say a kafir is allowed to step into hajj has gone against the sayings of The Prophet and Allah.
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
oh boobo,if non muslims r allowed to enter in holy places..they will show their hateness and will try their best to harm holy places...afterall we muslims have to face callous brutal and totally insane enemies in the form of americans and jews...so u seriously need brain to think something tht u r not able to think and i hope u will neva;)
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
hahah! Blame on the non-muslim bogey man.
FYI wake up and smell Gahwa! Non-Muslims have been in Saudi for the last century. The worst ever danger to life and limb came from whom?
Wahabi Mullahs!
Right on. You look back at the 1980s shooting and capture of Bait-Allah. Who did that? Wahabi Mullahs.
You check all the bombings and destruction in the last 10 years of Saudi. Who did that? Wahabi Mullahs.
Still if you want to blame non-Muslims for possible harm in Makkah, that sure is a sign of being nutz. This is especially strange coming from someone whose ar$e is firmly planted in a UK aloo store.
Re: Wahabis must open Makkah and Madeena to Non-Muslims (minus the hujj season)
Let me just quote you here....
"Learn your history baboo! Typial Baboos are so confused! They mix 1946 with 1947, 1965 with 1971 and so on. This is their way of being unethical about the whole "Hish-tory".
Anti take your own pill and learn the history and don’t mix Sura Tuba with Sura Baqara, and the events in the 1980's in Saudi Arabia to the events in 1948 and 1958 or the 1968. Muhammad Bin Abdullah Al Juhaiman was not a wahabi and fought against the tyrants in Riyadh. You should take a breather from the taxicab that you been driving or riding in Manhattan or MaNay- Di-haTTi or whatchamacalit, its clogging your brain.
So Please come again .... a give a spin to your google search
Edited for Anti
