Voting allowed in Islam

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

There is no difference between islamic state or khilafah its same meaning only difference khilafah is the accurate description mentioned in many hadiths.

Bayah how can it be one sided action, are you giving bayah to yourself this is silly? you giving bayah to somebody correct its offer and acceptance its a binding contract this is very well known if you dont take my word it is ok ask any imam or research a good book on subject of bayah to know this.

Secondly a ruler cannot appoint himself to rule over the Muslims without receiving the bayah. Nor can the Muslims lead their lives without giving the bayah to a ruler to rule over them. Hence Islam has not only defined a permanent contract between the ruler and his subjects, but also made the giving of the bayah obligatory on all Muslims this is furthur inhanced by the hadith narrated by [muslim] “Whoever dies while there was no allegiance on his neck dies a death of the days of ignorance (Jahiliyyah).”

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

^ right.

Let these stupid people talk about who they want to vote for. We lack an islamic state, that governs using ** the laws of ALLAH!!! ** but "democracy" has eaten their minds, and it is actually them who have been brainwashed and let asray. These are the people the Quran talks about. I have no links to HT, I don't care what they do. But muslim lands should be governed by Allah's laws. NOT MAN MADE LAWS (ie. Democracy and other crap).

You deviate from the teachings of the Prophet pbuh, and then have the nerve to come here and post about how an establishment of an islamic state is not as important as voting for a kafir govt.

Are you like seriously ******? You'd rather support and vote a KAFIR govt, then to help establish a state based on the laws of ALLAH swt? I've read HT's work btw, people say crap about them, but their goal is to establish an Islamic state. Yes tehre are sum defects in their plan, but atleast they support a cause worth supporting.

Please go worship ur kafir leaders. ok? and post some more of ur crap here. You guys think you are heroes and scholars when you mock the teachings of our Prophet pbuh.
May Allah guide us all on the straight path.

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

How backward are you people? I cannot believe what some of your wrote here:

One joker says muslims can't vote because it's a man made system - so is your shower and flush you fool! don't you ever wash? or did Allah hand you the computer you post from or did you some kafir make it for you?

Another says voting is unfair because everyone - good and bad- get to vote. So now everyone has to wear a good/bad badge?

Only idiots talk about islamic state - it was stupid then and totally bizarre now. Islamic state is what leads to harems where women are kept as inferior animals, citizentry get their limbs chopped at the whim of the despot and no one can have a life unless you're a mullah. The whole thing is a fraud

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

^ Obviously you arent a muslim. DO NOT make me quote hadeeths, and Quranic Ayahs, behind the motives of an Islamic state.

The prophet pbuh was a fool (naozubillah) so u are saying when he established Medinah as the State of Islam?

Don't post such crap here ok? when you don't understand anything and are lost urself.

May you be guided inshallah and ameen

Salam

p.s RULES and REGULATIONS that govern you are not comparable to a SHOWER. Very poor analogy, kind of like your stream of thought u have there.

Allah DID give me this computer to post from , its his creation not man's. Democracy and other type of govt which support the idea of NO Religious state and defy the laws of humanity and especially islam are MAN MADE. Also when ALlah has provided u with the laws, why follow man made laws?

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

ak47 ! I appreciate your patience, you well-mannered writing style and they way you are discussing the matter with me.

Bayah is more unidirectional act rather than the person who is in power or going to be in power ask (request, demand with force or without force) people to do his bayah. Its unidirectional in this sense that you (its YOU) who offer him oath of allegiance; if people don’t agree and don’t give him the oath; no body can force them to do. But this will not affect the authority of a right guided. the true Khalifa even if somebody (a single person or a group of people) not agreeing with him and not offering him the oath of allegiance. This is what I meant.

The hadith you quoted again addressing me and u. not the one who is in power or going to be in power to force people to do bayah. See the wording of hadith “His neck” mean the person who has to offer the oath of allegiance not that person who is in power or the who is going to be in power. If you think that “oath of allegiance” is important then what do you say about recognizing your leader?

The Prophet of Islam, peace and blessings be upon him and his family, said: “Whosoever dies without recognizing the Imam of his time dies the death of the Jahiliyyah.”
Ahmad b. Hanbal, al-Musnad, p. 96.

(1) Oath of allegiance to the leader
(2) Recognizing your leader

Which would come at first place? Obviously with recognizing him you can’t give him oath of allegiance.

Recognizing The Monarchical Uthmanis as Khalifahs and giving them oath of allegiance does this make any sense?

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

^
so who is the imam of this time????

musharraf????
bush????

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

^^
Don’t take these things as a joke, “Allah tamzkhar ko pasand nahin karta”

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

these r the leaders in these days....
if they cant be taken as imams, then plz do tell me who do u think is fit to be called as imam in this era....

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

^^
Do you consider them Khlalifas of the holy Prophet Muhammad(PBUH)?

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

just name the imam, and quit the questioning....

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

^me thinks u know already.

but according to that ahadith, am curious who do you consider specifically to be the Imam of your time?

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

**

go right ahread and quote all you know - I will show you the error of your ways all the same

**

why should I care what was done 1400 years ago? I am talking about now AND today anyone talking about establishing an islamic state is either a nutcase or terrorist. Look at all the so called islamic states (Saudi Arabia and most of middle east or African nations) and see how stupid and out of date their way of living is, how bad women are suffering there and how hypocritical their government’s are!

**

don’t worry about me; just make sure you don’t take the crap about islami states too seriously
**

Now you are lying - Allah gave you your computer? you didn’t pay for it? sure.
BTW heard of Bill Gates or Linus? Don’t tell me Allah acted through these guys to get you your computer - because these are infidels by your definition.

**

What’s wrong with man made laws? Quite frankly they seem a lot better than the so alled laws being followed in so called islami countries such as Saudi Arabia

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

inuit

The bayah does not mean literally every single 2 billion muslims must give bayah to the khalifah, islam is practicle and easier than many people think. For example the bayah can be given by leader of a group or tribe for example in many african and asian countries one tribe leader what ever he says the tribe will agree with him so if he says i give bayah for certain candidate the entire clan or group will follow and islam accepts the bayah of one man to represent his clan or group.

If we look at the first khalifahs we can see the different styles in which the bayah was applied.

In the appointment of Abu Bakr some Muslims debated the nominees were Sa'd bin Ubada, Abu Ubayda , Umar and Abu Bakr, and as a result of the debate Abu Bakr was given the bay'ah. The next day the Muslims were called to the mosque and they gave him the bay'ah. As a result of this bay'ah Abu Bakr became the Khalif.

When Abu Bakr felt that his illness was fatal he called upon the Muslims to consult them about who would become the next Khalif. He nominated Ali and Umar. Then the Muslims through chose Umar by their majority. When he completed the consultation and knew the majority of the Muslims opinion he announced to them that Umar would be the Khalif after him. After the death of Abu Bakr the Muslims came to the mosque and gave the bay'ah of Khilafah to Umar so he became Khalif by this bay'ah and not by the consultations nor by the announcement of Abu Bakr.

When Umar was stabbed, the Muslims asked him to appoint a successor for him but he refused. They insisted, so he mentioned six of the Sahabah. After his death, the nominees appointed one of them as a representative who was Abdul Rahman Ibn Auf. He referred to the opinion of the Muslims and consulted them. Then he declared the bay'ah to Uthman. The Muslims stood up and gave their pledge to Uthman, and theirby he became a Khalif by the pledge of the Muslims and not by the announcement of Abdul Rahman.

When Uthman was killed and the majority of the Muslims in Medina and Kufa gave their bay'ah to Ali, so he too became a Khalif by the bay'ah of the Muslims.

Some people will not agree with candidate but once the khilafah is selected it is essential that the muslims in whole give him total support this is the fard obligation even some sahahbah didnt agree with candidate but once appointed they give full support this is ijmah of sahabah and is taken as evidence for muslims.

Again when you mention monarchical khilafah this is your opinion which i disagree with because they was given bayah and are valid even if they was son or relative of previous khaleefah if they are capable, they meet the criteria of khaleefha and given bayah they are valid as i mentioned before when current governments put selected candidate and he wins its valid election same in khilafah if candidate is put up why is it called monarchical if candidate wins.

As for today none of the rulers are valid because they don't apply islam and which one of them was given bayah in correct manner for example did musharraff consult the ummah or how about the al fahds in saudi did they consult ummah or representatives of the muslim ummah, in reality they where given power by outside powers such as britain and amerikkka and they don't even meet criteria of khalifah where one of the criterias is to not have any influence from enemy states.

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

crescent

just give this buffoon some lyrics on culture and civillisation and you can finish his whining in 2 seconds flat.

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

hey ak47, how do you feel about using a computer? crescent claims Allah gave it. How about yours? or do you also claim it's not manmade?

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

Who made man

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

LOL!!! Ak47, I thought he would actually present a platform on which we can stand and argue. :rotfl: :rotfl:

This man doesn’t even believe Allah swt created a computer. He thinks Man made it.

:rotfl:

May you be guided brother, inshallah. Lets all hope. :smack:

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

His dad and mom. someone needs a birds and bees lecture?:bukbuk:

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

Getting back to the topic: Voting is a basic right in most civilized countries. Any institution, inluding religion or God, who tries to take that away is illegal.

Re: Voting allowed in Islam

There is nothing like ‘basic rights’ or fundamental rights’ mentioned in Quran. Everything is decided and given by Allah.