:k:
Re: Virgins need not apply
It's not so much that the person was a virgin or not. If someone else has been in the neighborhood previously, you can't do much about that...
But its a matter of territory - men think their women should be unmarked. That they were the first visitors - gives them a sense of superiority
For me, if I meet a guy is no longer a virgin - whatever.
But if he has been a WOMANIZER, that is very different. Guys who have many one night stands - that tells you something about their character. They don't care about people's feelings. And moreover, if they tell me that they're not SORRY about what they did, but all of a sudden they happen to now be 5x namaazi (I kid you not, one of the recent guys I was talking to was like this), that should be a warning sign. It means they are a HYPOCRITE.
People who are down to earth and CARE about other human beings, don't behave like that. I can understand if something happened in the heat of the moment in a previous relationship. It's hard to abstain from sex as you get up there in age. But its another if you are just womanizing and then you expect that your ammi, one day, will find some nice virgin girl for you to wed and settle down with, so you can go on to become a preaching mullah later in life with a bunch of kids. I've seen those cases too. Some of our most vocal local "mullah" types have had their fair share of mistresses and one-night stands.
Re: Virgins need not apply
^ bravo.
But if he has been a WOMANIZER, that is very different. Guys who have many one night stands - that tells you something about their character. They don't care about people's feelings. And moreover, if they tell me that they're not SORRY about what they did, but all of a sudden they happen to now be 5x namaazi (I kid you not, one of the recent guys I was talking to was like this), that should be a warning sign. It means they are a HYPOCRITE.
.
its not a question of they 'dont' care about people's feelings, at best yu can say they 'did not' care about people's feelings. However, the girls they are having the one nighters or even short reltionships with would also not be looking for anything serious so there is no issue of anyone's feelings there. it would be different if a dude led some chic on and then had a one nighter with her and dumped her. That is usually not the case. believe me, of my 5.5 years of undergrad that were mostly spent in a fraternity house....majority of the action going on there was not between people who were looking for shadi and bachay...they were just looking for bootie call, guys as well as girls.
and as far as being sorry, why? i mean for what reason, sorry because you 'did not care about someone's feelings?' or sorry because you did something which is against what your faith etc or belief system that you got more into, or converted into. Also is sorry here meaning regret or being apologetic. two very diff things, one can have regrets for something they did, but they dont have to be apologetic about it.
it does not make anyone a hypocrite. People change for better or for worse..depending on whose lens you are looking at it from, them holding different views than they did years ago does not make the a hypocrit, but points that they have changed as an individual, now had someone been sleeping around while at the same time yip yaping about it being bad, that there is a hypocrit.
PS: oops, did I say too much :D
Re: Virgins need not apply
No, you didn’t say too much. You said too little.
I mean apologetic as in if you ask them, if you had to do it again, would you do it? A lot of people will say, of course. I don’t think that’s the right answer. What kind of lesson will you teach your kids then? Are you going to tell your son, buck up boy and spread the seed :k: ?
Re: Virgins need not apply
let me bust out some wisdom for you as I light up the latakia in my churchwarden..
the "if you had to do it again would you" is a very dodgy question because who you are today is due to your mistakes and learnings as well as right calls plus experiences etc etc etc. Now there is no guarantee that if you had to go back and make what you now hold to be the right decision today, that you will wind up being who you are, you may be better, and you may be worse. you dont know.
hindsight is 20-20, and thats why it does not exist. thats why that question is irrelevant.
the question is would you do it today or would you tell someone to..why or why not...the answer to that is the key.
Re: Virgins need not apply
I just don't want my son growing up to be a man-whore, and as long as he has a father that is a man-whore and thinks its ok to be a man-whore, that's the kind of son I'm going to get. Doesn't mean a guy who is no longer virgin will raise boys to sleep around - maybe today he thinks that kind of thing is unhealthy and unIslamic.
That, btw, also goes for girls. Just because yesterday a girl did something wrong, doesn't mean that today, she's a better human being for it, and wouldn't do something like that again. But I see non-virgin girls getting dumped on all the time in our society.
You're right, those questions would probably be more key.
I just don't want my son growing up to be a man-whore, and as long as he has a father that is a man-whore and thinks its ok to be a man-whore, that's the kind of son I'm going to get. Doesn't mean a guy who is no longer virgin will raise boys to sleep around - maybe today he thinks that kind of thing is unhealthy and unIslamic.
That, btw, also goes for girls. Just because yesterday a girl did something wrong, doesn't mean that today, she's a better human being for it, and wouldn't do something like that again. But I see non-virgin girls getting dumped on all the time in our society.
You're right, those questions would probably be more key.
gigolo has such a better ring to it than a man-whore.
yep so if someone thinks it 'is' okay then thats the message the kids will get
if he used to think it is okay but no longer does, then the message is clear
and thats where teh hypocisy thing comes into play..
how can you tell us not to do something when you did it yourself
but thats not hypocricy, thats just wisdom from experience
logically speaking, its no different than people who ignored education telling their kids to do well in school
they cant go back and undo what they did and they want their kids to learn from their mistakes, so they can go on and make other mistakes and learn from those and be more than the parents are.
its parents in poor physical condition telling kids to eat better and take care of their health, its a man dying of lung cancer telling grandkids to not take up smoking..
not that a kid should know about the parents past activities anyways but thats a delicate topic.
and speaking of gigolos...have to do a shoutout to crosby and lee roth..
Just a gigolo, everywhere I go
People know the part I'm playing
Paid for every dance
Selling each romance
Every night some heart betraying
There will come a day
Youth will pass away
Then what will they say about me
When the end comes I know
They'll say just a gigolo
As life goes on without me
Re: Virgins need not apply
i'd rather desire a virgin, who chooses to spend his life with me and doesn't wonder what if.
Re: Virgins need not apply
ahh people wonder, it is human nature...
all these married chicas on GS going gaga over some new actor ...
really, its not that they think about making chai for him and talk to him about existentialism..
PS: if they do...nerds!!!!
Re: Virgins need not apply
^if it's human nature, then there's no guarentee the wondering will stop after someone's had a little experience. infact, i think people with experience wonder more after marriage compared to people with no experience prior to marriage (just a theory).
Re: Virgins need not apply
in the end, it depends on the person..
is the issue with wondering
or is the issue with it getting out of hand in terms of expectations from spouse, or acting on this wondering outside
that is the kicker, not the wondering.
as a comedian said
'ladies if you knew what we were thinking, you will never stop slapping us'
Re: Virgins need not apply
^i suppose it depends on the person. but acting stems from wondering. the less you wonder, the less you'll act.
Re: Virgins need not apply
that too is a theory.
you can wonder but not act due to society, laws, and what nots
and someone who in comparison can wonder less acts more because the circumstances are right
but in the end, the biggest decider is who the person is..depends on the individual.
Re: Virgins need not apply
well i was referring to people who are in the same circumstances. the one wondering more will "act" more, it's only natural.
Re: Virgins need not apply
When peoples sleep around and except clean people for themselve?
It is not possible. Look what Quran said on the issue.
"The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers."
Surah Nur
Re: Virgins need not apply
I am just wondering why you lot spend so much time discussing other people and their issues?
It's not so much that the person was a virgin or not. If someone else has been in the neighborhood previously, you can't do much about that...
But its a matter of territory - men think their women should be unmarked. That they were the first visitors - gives them a sense of superiority
For me, if I meet a guy is no longer a virgin - whatever.
But if he has been a WOMANIZER, that is very different. Guys who have many one night stands - that tells you something about their character. They don't care about people's feelings. And moreover, if they tell me that they're not SORRY about what they did, but all of a sudden they happen to now be 5x namaazi (I kid you not, one of the recent guys I was talking to was like this), that should be a warning sign. It means they are a HYPOCRITE.
People who are down to earth and CARE about other human beings, don't behave like that. I can understand if something happened in the heat of the moment in a previous relationship. It's hard to abstain from sex as you get up there in age. But its another if you are just womanizing and then you expect that your ammi, one day, will find some nice virgin girl for you to wed and settle down with, so you can go on to become a preaching mullah later in life with a bunch of kids. I've seen those cases too. Some of our most vocal local "mullah" types have had their fair share of mistresses and one-night stands.
Everyone makes mistakes and Islam allows you to repent so if someone has repented and is now praying and seeking guidance why call them Hypocrite???When Allah/God is forgiving why arent we humans the same??? If someone was admitted to me that they had made a mistake(s) I would admire their honesty rather than calling them hypocrites atleats they have got guts toadmit their wrongdoings...Honestly how many of us can do that??
So what part of "spreading her legs" is common sense or intelligence? If we were having a scientific discussion about the act of mating then yeah, "spread her legs" would be quite appropriate. But we are not.
As far as being overwhelmed with the immense knowledge that you present to me.....sorry to burst your bubble but I am not. I am, however, saddened that someone exhibiting a glimmer of hope when it comes to knowledge lacks so much in the area of communication and diplomacy. Anyways......
I have a friend who recently lost her husband to a tragic car accident. She is no longer a virgin at a very young age. I would hate to think that someone out there would refer to her as having "spread her legs" for her beloved husband.
I have another friend who is more liberal than most and had an 8 year dedicated relationship with a guy. They got engaged finally last year and bought a house together. They should have been married this year but the pressure of families and issues leading up to the actual marriage tore them apart. She is no longer a virgin. I would hate for someone to refer to her as having been "drilled".
I am not passing any judgements; in fact I am trying to gain some insight on what makes people behave a certain way. In your case: what drives you to use language that may incite or provoke. Perhaps its a rush you feel.....whatever rocks your boat man.
I am sorry to burst YOUR bubble but the fact of the matter is, if a girl spreads her legs for another guy she got DRILLED. I don't care what kind of relationship they are sharing, whether it was a marriage like one of your friends or an illegitimate one like the other. I don't like to beat around the bush my friend.
I don't pass judgments on these people either. They did what they did and that's not my problem. But since your friends openly admit they lost their virginity, it's pretty safe to say they got nailed or if it makes you feel any better, they had sex. Happy?
Re: Virgins need not apply
Why is this assumption being made repeatedly that guys desiring a virgin are not virgins themselves?