Very disturbing

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^ Your approach is very logical and convincing.

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It's not immoral to marry the wife of one you looked after. One may or may not be comfortable with it...but that's not quite a moral concern.

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But then, they don't want to say what the prophet did (apparently based on what Allah told him) was wrong.

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  1. And it is ILLEGAL to treat adopted children differently than biological children.

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No it's not. No law can govern how parents take care of children...in any case...

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What kind of a person who adopts out of love will the discriminate amongst his/her own children? This is as bad an abomination as poligamy and islam MUST be rectified in this regard.

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Nope. Again, there is no adoption. There's taking care of an orphan. It's immoral to bring in a child within your household, without that child knowing who is their real biological parents. There's nothing immoral in loving that child, who would otherwise be left on their own, and providing for them...

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3) And there are now some ppl blatantly stating 'if quran says it's ok to marry your adopted daughter (in law) then it is ok"! How can anybody reading that ever respect quran and islam afer this?

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How can anyone respect a sophist who likes to make issues out of non-issues?

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^ What's the difference from a non biological point of view? And how does that matter?

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Originally posted by ** picoico **

It's not immoral to marry the wife of one you looked after. ** One may or may not be comfortable with it...but that's not quite a moral concern.
**

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I stopped reading after this statement. Why are you not comfortable with it if you are OK with it from a moral standpoint. Are you afraid about what people would say about you..

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USSresident..see what you did, one more convert ! I am sure you can answer his question ?

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I thought you did not want to discuss. In Islam you are forbidden marriage with your blood relation such as daughter, son, siblings, father or mother. An adopted child is not related to you by blood or born through a biological relationship. You are assuming the role of father but you are not the childs actual father through blood relationship (which would be same as Guardian today). You assuming the role of father is indeed commendable and rewarding in the eyes of Allah SWT because you are taking in an orphaned child who might not have anyone to take care of him otherwise. However you are not subject to the laws that forbid you from marrying a blood relation. Its quite simple. It is not encouraged either. Its just the definition of a bound or limit in terms of whom you are allowed to marry. You don't have to be marrying an adopted sons ex-wife if you do not want to. There is no compulsion if you are in such a situation that you have to be doing this. Its just a clarification, if the question ever pops into your mind that can you do such, then yes you are allowed to. All the other consequences of your choice are upto your own wisdom whether you should choose to do so or not.

To me immoral is when you coercively exploit or take away someone elses right which does not belong to you. Such as you steal from someone, you take someones life unjustly, you are dishonest, you are deceptive or you lie about the truth (save a few circumstances) etc. Like PICOICO just said, adopting someone and not telling them the truth about their lineage is immoral because you are lying to the child about his parents. You are making them believe that you are his real parent when it is not true, infact I would tend to say telling the truth has a more profound and endearing effect on the child when he comes to realize what a great person you are to have taken him in when he was left all alone.

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Keep counting your losses ....... the people arguing in this thread against you are more knowledgible than me, so again its not me but still keep counting.

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Very well said. And its simple as you said...you either follow Quran and do what it states or you don't follow Quran and do what you would like to do...choice is yours and you will be answerable not someone else.

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So the bottomline for those who still don't get it is:

1 - To muslims what is in the Quran is final and indicative that it has Allah SWT acceptance.
2 - If people choose not to do something out of social pressures does not make it immoral and Allah SWT has defined for us what is immoral and what is not.
3 - Allah SWT has defined who muslims are allowed to marry whether we do it or not is our own personal choice.

Those who do not agree with what Allah SWT says is OK, may Allah SWT give them better understanding.

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That is not a bottom line but a bottom period.

If quran says you can marry your adopted daughter or daughter in law then quran is wrong and must be changed.

If Allah intended people not to think for themselves he wouldn't have given them that faculty and would have stopped with the quram.

Defending the morally corrupt notions only diminishes the respect for quran.

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The Quran doesn't say that you can marry your daughter in law, so your point is moot. However, the Quran shows us that your adopted son's wife is not your daughter in law, therefore she remains a non-mehram. So if she's not married, then you can marry her. You can't change that. The best you can do is not practice it personally, but you can't forbid anyone else from doing what Allah has made halaal. Islam is about submission to Allah's will, not yours.

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yaar biggest question is why you want to follow quran
if quran have no objection on marrying ex-wife of adopted son, then leave it to thoes who follow quran

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Exact same issue as with interracial marriages. Many people won't do it, either out of personal preference/social pressure etc. but it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it from a moral standpoint.

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I think it is crystal clear where your submission to Allah SWT lies. Next time I argue with you I will keep in mind that you are not a muslim. And please do not contribute your half-as$ opinions here as if you are speaking from a muslim POV. Just say I am a non-muslim who does not agree with these aspects of Islam. Its people like you who are termed hypocrites in our religion.

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[quote="“USResident, post:1230, topic:172928"”]

I think it is crystal clear where your submission to Allah SWT lies. Next time I argue with you I will keep in mind that you are not a muslim. And please do not contribute your half-as$ opinions here as if you are speaking from a muslim POV. Just say I am a non-muslim who does not agree with these aspects of Islam. Its people like you who are termed hypocrites in our religion.
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Well let us not use any apologetics but address this issue head-on. The idea is that adopted children can never be biological children… obviously it is not said that you MUST marry your adopted daughter or the wife of your adopted son. It is not said either that you MUST NOT… It says you CAN, and this may have several implications for different scenarios.

It is inferred that you must let your adopted children recognize and cherish the memory and namesake of their biological parents, as it is only fair, but you must also provide the protection/guardianship that their parents would have provided them.

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Well let us not use any apologetics but address this issue head-on. The idea is that adopted children can never be biological children... obviously it is not said that you MUST marry your adopted daughter or the wife of your adopted son. It is not said either that you MUST NOT... It says you CAN, and this may have several implications for different scenarios.

It is inferred that you must let your adopted children recognize and cherish the memory and namesake of their biological parents, as it is only fair, but you must also provide the protection/guardianship that their parents would have provided them.
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Summarized it very well. This is what has been said throughout this thread.

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Glad to have been of service :D

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:salute:

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Well debated thread even though somewhat off color topic. Some of the members may have further improved the quality of discussion if they hadn't resorted to calling those questioning actions of the prophet some personal names.

That aside, I wonder if anybody knows how beautifully the Hindu Religion has solved this sort of problems. Here is a summary.

All people are attributed to a certain Gothra. Each Gothra is considered the descendency of a particular group of Rishis. The Rishis themselves are a multi-tired groups but that gets complicated so we will leave it for the moment.

Now the simple rule is that two people of the same Gothra never marry. This prevents most possibilities of even inadvertently inter-marrying. This is not a perfect solution imo but goes a very long way. (Not perfect because some of the higher level Rishi descendency categories are not yet fully decoded but with some limited amount of DNA research that has occurred in this respect, the rulesets for the Gothra classifications have proved astoundingly correct!).

Apart from that, I think in the old days, whether in Arabia or in any other part the plat, people lived in small hamlet and village communities. Travel was within very limited distances and therefore social interactions were within somewhat limited communities relative to today. Therefore because the choices were limited due to the small accessible community size, it is possible that alliances occurred within 2nd and 3rd cousing ranges and even 1st cousin range to some extent where the family tree was truncated. In some cases adoptions must have been the only way to prolong a family line. Therefore people who were more advanced and civilized would naturally have had the ability to travel wider and farther, thus being able to broaden the pool for alliances; and people that were less civilized and or advanced would have had a smaller area for alliances and so in those we will find higher acceptance of 1st cousin marriages. This is likely the explanation for the Quranic sanction (probably acquired a religious tone that way later).

As almost everybody (on both sides of the argument) has pointed out here, such close range marriages are unhealthy and whether you practice the Quran or not, should simply be avoided. Beyond that, whether Quran needs to be changed or not is a mere academic rhetoric and neither side is ever going to convince the other side! because one side (eg UsResident) believes in it as Allah's word and so requires no further tweaking whereas the other side (Tariq Aktar) is approaching it as a living document that needs to kept updated. How will these two ever agree?

As I said mostly good points on both sides but if I may, we should try to not get angry with people for questioning the sacrosanct - because truth will ultimately emerge and win (as we say Sathyameva Jayathey)

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^^stircrasy..stop doing 'dawah' to your religion. Very few/nobody will be reading it and this thread is not about your religion!!