Re: Very disturbing
@USRes on #58 : all I can do at this point is pity you. pls have a chk up for hallucination and delusions of thought.
My offer to not ignore you still holds and hopefully one golden day you will frame a coherent question.
I wish your pity was worth my time. I also hope you will improve on your reading comprehension one day and be able to give coherent answers.
Re: Very disturbing
I wish your pity was worth my time. I also hope you will improve on your reading comprehension one day and be able to give coherent answers.
Salam USR,
Seems like flogging a dead horse.
Tariq you have major problesm bro, you are very opinionated, come over try to understand the alternative view.
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I know some people cannot seem to live Islam in this century and keep imagining as if every other muslim is living in 7th century Arabia today.
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Dude, I don't want to get into your primitive arguements, All I am saying is that God has given us a brain to comprehend what is right from wrong, and I think it would be wise for us to use it instead of idolising somebody from the 6th century and mock his lifestyle in todays world........period.
Sir, no one today is living in 7th century Arabia. Yes God has given us a brain, maybe we must use it to realize that this whole thing is really a non-issue. Learning certain aspects of the religion is not Idolizing. This is all about knowing the bounds set by Allah SWT. Its much like when you live in your parents house they let you know what the rules area and if you wanna continue to live with them then you know what will get you in trouble and what not. It does not imply that you will try to do it all to test those limits. Now Allah STW has used the Prophet SAW to define a scenario in which you would not be sinful. It does not mean you have to be doing it if you feel socially repugnant to it given todays societal structure. I myself would not be able to do it but that does not mean I have the right to say that it is wrong in the eyes of Allah SWT.
Can you be courteous enough to answer what I requested and leave the niceties of the discussion for later?
Re: Very disturbing
Sir, no one today is living in 7th century Arabia. Yes God has given us a brain, maybe we must use it to realize that this whole thing is really a non-issue. Learning certain aspects of the religion is not Idolizing. This is all about knowing the bounds set by Allah SWT. Its much like when you live in your parents house they let you know what the rules area and if you wanna continue to live with them then you know what will get you in trouble and what not. It does not imply that you will try to do it all to test those limits. Now Allah STW has used the Prophet SAW to define a scenario in which you would not be sinful. It does not mean you have to be doing it if you feel socially repugnant to it given todays societal structure. I myself would not be able to do it but that does not mean I have the right to say that it is wrong in the eyes of Allah SWT.
Can you be courteous enough to answer what I requested and leave the niceties of the discussion for later?
Why in the world are you trying to drag me in you primitive arguement, if you feel that you shd marry your adopted daughter-in-law according to Islam....Go and marry and live happily ever after, Don't bug me ? I am just saying that its unethical to me regardless of any religious rules and ideas of ancient times.
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How does one distinguish which of the the prophets actions are:
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How does one distinguish which of the the prophets actions are:
And that is why we shd have certain classification of muslims.......Because some may believe that moderate muslims are true muslims while others may say OBL type of muslims are true muslims. Many in this forum lie in between and some over the OBL kinds..
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^ Yes, there are variations amongst believers from liberal to moderate to fundamentalist to extremist, but I don't think that belief system is determined by which of prophet's actions are deemed examples, encouraged or necessary. Who decided?
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Salamvalekum,
Exactly and problem is each of them has this einstein brain that they think they are stud in cracking up some amazing logic but fail to understand it there own wishful thinking, rather it would be easy for them to add 2+2 =4 but rather some genius individually are perpetually inclined towards making it 5.
Re: Very disturbing
Why in the world are you trying to drag me in you primitive arguement, if you feel that you shd marry your adopted daughter-in-law according to Islam....Go and marry and live happily ever after, Don't bug me ? I am just saying that its unethical to me regardless of any religious rules and ideas of ancient times.
You still did not answer my question. Sir, ethical and unethical depends on the set of values centric to your belief. You find it unethical because your belief is not based on the values and rules of Islam. When adopted sons reach puberty then their step mothers are supposed to observe hijab in front of them and all the rules of na-mehram apply. Perhaps it would be prudent to first understand what rights and responsibilities there are between those who adopt people and the adoptees. This is per Quran. So if you can marry another muslim brothers (as all muslims are brothers to one another) divorced wife then there is no difference. It is not unethical but if you say it might be socially unacceptable today I can buy that argument and even say that due to the social pressures of today I would do my level best to avoid such a thing if I ever ended up in it and simply refuse to do so. Your misunderstanding stems from your neglect of the differences in adoption in Islam and other cultures.
No one is telling you to go do this but just don't declare it haram when it is not.
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^^
Let me ask you a very simple question
According to Islam is it OK to marry one's own adopted daughter ???
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^^
Let me ask you a very simple question
According to Islam is it OK to marry one's own adopted daughter ???
I don't know. I don't think we have any precedent for that in our history. Will do some research and get back to you.
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Treating an adopted son as your own is wonderful thing - for both the parent and the child. So is giving the same rights to the adopted child. The love I see in families where this takes place is beautiful. It benefits everybody - including the other siblings. The children grow up much more secure. They feel as they belong. They feel more loved. Every child needs that. I have seen parents where they have treated the adopted child differently, and the family was not near as functional or loving - and neither were the children when they grew up.
So I firmly believe it is the righteous thing to do to treat an adopted child as your own. It is the righteous thing to do. The only time I have heard of this not being the right thing to do (as a rule, there are always exceptions) is from Muslim literature. Really makes me wonder why some of these rules were put into place. It doesn't appear as it was for the benefit of the child. So for whose benefit was it?
Re: Very disturbing
So based on reading the scholarly views oozing out of the visionary hallucinators here I have one more thing to add to the list of obsolete abominaions that should be chaned and updated in islam: actually a few:
And that is:
1) do not adopt unless you intend to give that child a good and loving upbringing without discriminating between biological and adopted kids. Otherwise it is wanton cruelty. (From now on if I come across any adoption by muslims I will ensure child welfare agency asks this questions)
2) Ban in-breeding. Cousins should not marry each other.
3) Avoid argiuements with people whose idea of using their brain is to parrot out so called staements and examples of the prophet, only to back track as soon as the. errors of such acts and deeds are exposed.
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JazakAllah khairun psyah, USResident, picoico, slaveofAllaah and sharaabi for educating and telling the truth about Prophet Muhammad(SAW) in a very nice and wise way to people who don't have the true knowledge.
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JazakAllah khairun psyah..Tariq Aktar for educating and telling the truth about updating fellow muslim bros and sis in a very nice and wise way to people who don't have the true knowledge.
Re: Very disturbing
Treating an adopted son as your own is wonderful thing - for both the parent and the child. So is giving the same rights to the adopted child. The love I see in families where this takes place is beautiful. It benefits everybody - including the other siblings. The children grow up much more secure. They feel as they belong. They feel more loved. Every child needs that. I have seen parents where they have treated the adopted child differently, and the family was not near as functional or loving - and neither were the children when they grew up.
So I firmly believe it is the righteous thing to do to treat an adopted child as your own. It is the righteous thing to do. The only time I have heard of this not being the right thing to do (as a rule, there are always exceptions) is from Muslim literature. Really makes me wonder why some of these rules were put into place. It doesn't appear as it was for the benefit of the child. So for whose benefit was it?
Hi Semi
I have no disagreement treating adopted children as your own in responsibilities. The thing in Islam is though we should treat all people according to their rights and responsibilities. A brother in faith is just as dearer to me as my own child. As we say we must like the same thing for our brother as we would like for ourself.
You've got it wrong. Islam does not forbid adopting or helping orphans or anyone for that matter (except those fighting against Allah SWT). There are some rules that are tied to biological/blood relationships and adoptees do not qualify for blood relationship no matter what you may say. Marriage in Islam is forbidden based on certain biological relationships. Every muslim should endear other muslims whether biologically related to them or not. We do not marry with our direct biological related offspring or parents or brothers or sisters.
Having the freedom to marry someone who is not biologically related to you but though social circumstances and kindness is not oppression. Andit cannot happen unless the two agree also.
Re: Very disturbing
So based on reading the scholarly views oozing out of the visionary hallucinators here I have one more thing to add to the list of obsolete abominaions that should be chaned and updated in islam: actually a few:
And that is:
1) do not adopt unless you intend to give that child a good and loving upbringing without discriminating between biological and adopted kids. Otherwise it is wanton cruelty. (From now on if I come across any adoption by muslims I will ensure child welfare agency asks this questions)
2) Ban in-breeding. Cousins should not marry each other.
3) Avoid argiuements with people whose idea of using their brain is to parrot out so called staements and examples of the prophet, only to back track as soon as the. errors of such acts and deeds are exposed.
Likewise.
1 - Actually do not form any form of relationship unless you can do justice with it by fullfilling the proper rights and responsibilities. This is not confined to just adoptees.
2 - If people are fine with it, its their choice. There are examples where such inter0family marriages have worked beautifully and also otherwise. So you have no right to force your views on others that is exactly what you have been squabbling about.
3 - Yup agreed, also avoid arguing with mentally numb people as well.
Thanks for contributing to the thread.
Re: Very disturbing
You still did not answer my question. Sir, ethical and unethical depends on the set of values centric to your belief. You find it unethical because your belief is not based on the values and rules of Islam. When adopted sons reach puberty then their step mothers are supposed to observe hijab in front of them and all the rules of na-mehram apply. Perhaps it would be prudent to first understand what rights and responsibilities there are between those who adopt people and the adoptees. This is per Quran. So if you can marry another muslim brothers (as all muslims are brothers to one another) divorced wife then there is no difference. It is not unethical but if you say it might be socially unacceptable today I can buy that argument and even say that due to the social pressures of today I would do my level best to avoid such a thing if I ever ended up in it and simply refuse to do so. Your misunderstanding stems from your neglect of the differences in adoption in Islam and other cultures.
No one is telling you to go do this but just don't declare it haram when it is not.
What ever rules your ethics is based on is seriously messed up ? If you think marrying an adopted daughter is ok for you then you have serious problems ? You need to get that fixed first. Maybe in Saudi you would get away with that but in US or any other unislamic and some islamic countries you will be screwed big time. Dude, This is not 7th century or the dark ages, atleast try to cope up with todays world instead of going back in time. Please try not to share your retarded HALAL thoughts of marrying one's own adopted daughter again.
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What ever rules your ethics is based on is seriously messed up ? If you think marrying an adopted daughter is ok for you then you have serious problems ? You need to get that fixed first. Maybe in Saudi you would get away with that but in US or any other unislamic and some islamic countries you will be screwed big time. Dude, This is not 7th century or the dark ages, atleast try to cope up with todays world instead of going back in time. Please try not to share your retarded HALAL thoughts of marrying one's own adopted daughter again.
I think its matter of following the rule of law and if Quran and/or Sunnah satates you could do so than whats the problem with that? Why do we have to look at our culture, ethics or cast to make the decision. Why not follow Quran and Sunnah? Isn't that simple? However its hard to follow those rules. :)