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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
That's the problem. They don't.
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You are so right. Palestinians don't have ANY right, especially in context of UN, World etc.
I don’t know any history of Arafat as what he was before President. Anyone?
It wouldn't do to have poor royalty now would it!
He started Al Fatah in the 50's and was know as a ruthless terrorist. He was invited to the UN and brought an olive branch in one hand and a gun in the other. At one time I believe he did care for the Palestinians but over time he learned that his words were true "War is easier than peace" and sold out to better himself rather than the people he once fought for. His wife lives a multi-million dollar lifestyle in France.
All that money !!
That’s the mark of a true leader, instead of sunning himself on some private island in the Seychelles he chooses to stay in Palestine and fight for justice.
My opinion of him just sky-rocketed thanks underthedome.
Seen in this true light I suppose he should be sainted by the pope after his imminent demise.
UTD, Aghafat in 50's was never a ruthless terrorist, rather a freedom fighter but that was in early and mid 60's.
He graduated from Cairo University in mid 50's and went to Kuwait and worked there for eight years as an engineer. Had no experience in warfare and was only politically active in Cairo University. He helped forming PLO probably in Jordan, which was formed with the help of two left wing organizations (PFLP, DFLP) and Fatah. Khalil al Wazir (Fatah), in 60's was a bigger name than Aghafat in forming the PLO.
Being an elected leader (a rare case in Arab world), he is not that wealthy, compare to his neighbors.
But, the point is if he is bad for Palestinians, let the Palestinians take care of him.
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*Originally posted by MiniMe: *
UTD, Aghafat in 50's was never a ruthless terrorist, rather a freedom fighter but that was in early and mid 60's.
He graduated from Cairo University in mid 50's and went to Kuwait and worked there for eight years as an engineer.
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wow, I didnt know that... What field of engineering was he in? Thanks for the info minime
So he worked as an engineer for eight years, and he is now worth more than $300 Million?
Who is his financial advisor, Richard Grasso?
Doesn't anybody have a problem with this?
And, "elected"? Once. Yet he has been leading the Palestinains for 30 years? Too bad that intifada keeps putting off the elections, and constant chaos prevents real political parties (not the kind with bombs) from forming and challenging him.
I say recall him and let Arnold run against him.
Corruption kills democracy.
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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Corruption kills democracy.
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Unfortunately it also kills any chance for an independent Palestinian state. His one time election was a fraud. I suppose those advocating "let the Palestinians decide" had the same advice for Iraqis under Saddam. Let's put all the blame on US/Israel and not demand change from the other side. How about some solutions that require a little introspection from the Muslim side instead of all this blame displacement?
That's what I always say.. if someone asks me why I broke that lamp, "look over there!"
Why the hell are we reviewing Arafat's resume?? Isnt this about Israel's actions? not Arafat's? You should already know that I think Arafat is worthless scum.. but the issue here is Israel.
Seminole,
Perhaps if ANYONE else had the nuts to stand up and say, "You know, he IS a barrier to peace." Then perhaps the Muslim world might consider the possibility that a change of leadership MIGHT JUST BE GOOD for the Palestinian people. When the US says it there is this automatic defense of Arafat without looking at other possible leaders who might provide a settlement with dignity.
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*Originally posted by spoon: *
That's what I always say.. if someone asks me why I broke that lamp, "look over there!"
Why the hell are we reviewing Arafat's resume?? Isnt this about Israel's actions? not Arafat's? You should already know that I think Arafat is worthless scum.. but the issue here is Israel.
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Why isn't Arafat being scrutinized by the Muslim world? It is not just Israel's actions that are preventing peace. It can be argued that Israel's actions are nothing more than reactions to the Palestinian and Arab efforts to push Israel into the sea. He has not been able to reign in the terrorists that give Israel the excuse for continued occupation. Sharon's election and Israel's continued hard line stance can be attributed to the same thing. Why are you not willing to admit Israel alone isn't responsible for breaking the lamp?
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Why are you not willing to admit Israel alone isn't responsible for breaking the lamp?
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I already have admitted this. In my view, the main problem in the Israeli/Palestinian saga is people have grown so used to it that they approach it as a whole. They want to solve the problem, but it is not one problem.. that is why everyone to date has failed. Is is a collection of problems that must be taken one at a time, each on its own. Right now we condemn Israel for their decision to remove/kill Arafat. That is a bad policy decision and should be corrected. In a separate debate we can condemn Arafat for his using the Palestinians as pawns for his own ends, as he did after the announcement of the decision. We should have had better focus when condemning him for not supporting Abbas. Etc...
Each issue should be handled on its own at the time of its occurance without dragging in history or other extraneous points.
Cool, Spoon. I agree with all that. With one exception -- if Israel has proof that Arafat is facilitating/condoning or otherwised aiding and abetting the terrorist acts against Israel, they are within their rights to remove him (not kill him, but remove him).
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Cool, Spoon. I agree with all that. With one exception -- if Israel has proof that Arafat is facilitating/condoning or otherwised aiding and abetting the terrorist acts against Israel, they are within their rights to remove him (not kill him, but remove him).
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By the same logic, if the Palestinians have proof that Mr. Sharon is a terrorist, then the Palestinians are within their rights to remove him(The definition of remove varies from country to country).
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*Originally posted by ZulfiOKC: *
By the same logic, if the Palestinians have proof that Mr. Sharon is a terrorist, then the Palestinians are within their rights to remove him.
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I don't know if you are keeping up with current events, but the Palestinians aren't running the show. Until they make peace with Israel and have their own country they really don't have any rights, do they?
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
I don't know if you are keeping up with current events, but the Palestinians aren't running the show. Until they make peace with Israel and have their own country they really don't have any rights, do they?
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Ofcourse I'm keeping up with the current events(what do you think I'm an American). I guess it depends who you ask, about who is running the show. If you ask me I firmly believe that the Palestinians(which does includes the Hamas), are in full control of their destiny, it's just a matter of time. In my opinion, in these kinda guerilla tactics, there are only two option, 1) the invader takes control of the area, 2) the guerilla succeeds in prolonging war, and ultimately making the invaders to leave the region, that's what happened in Vietnam, and that's what exactly going to happen in the Middle Esat as well.
How well off is Vietnam?? The methods Hamas et al use are not the best, it's not even a given that they will ever be successful since their opponent is just as stubborn as them. There are better ways of going about things, just have to put forth a little extra effort (and a little less greed).
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*Originally posted by ZulfiOKC: *
Ofcourse I'm keeping up with the current events(what do you think I'm an American). I guess it depends who you ask, about who is running the show. If you ask me I firmly believe that the Palestinians(which does includes the Hamas), are in full control of their destiny, it's just a matter of time. In my opinion, in these kinda guerilla tactics, there are only two option, 1) the invader takes control of the area, 2) the guerilla succeeds in prolonging war, and ultimately making the invaders to leave the region, that's what happened in Vietnam, and that's what exactly going to happen in the Middle Esat as well.
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Your'e right, I'm an American, what do I know about current events? It's not like I'm from a 3rd world country where 1/2 of the population has never seen the inside of a school, no one has access to the internet or 400 cable tv stations to choose from. But until you, Hamas and all the other terrorist apologists realize that Israel is not going to "leave the region", the sooner the Palestinians can have their country and their dignity.