US spy plane traumatized by North Koreans

It was yesterday’s news that a US spy plane near Korea was surrounded by Korean jets. Luckily for Americans, the Koreans didn’t do a la China and left the plane to go back to its base… with some badly shaken crew, I am sure.

The interesting thing comes after that. Turns out that US is planning a strong protest against this Korean action. US is claiming it was 150 miles off Korea. Now the question anyone will ask, is what right does US have to send spy planes all over the world, and then have the gall if others surround it and give them a deep stare? I am not questioning why US does that, but the thing is if you are spying into another country using your sohpisticated technology, the other country have a perfect right to shoot you down too, if they can. Why be indignant about it?

If it were reverse, and a Brazilian spy plane comes 100 miles of United States to snoop around for nuclear reactors, what do you think will American reaction be? I bet, 20 F-16’s will be up in no time and escort the bugger down to San Diego and create an international rucus over all this.

ps. Here is the link cz its not copied from any news site.

If it is in international waters then the koreans are at fault.

Faisal:
The US is protesting because the NKs came within 50 feet of the US aircraft and also locked onto them with their radar which is a hostile move often indicating impending missile launch. You don't seem to have a real good concept of international airspace to make the comments you have. Where in the world did you ever come up with the idea that countries have a right to shoot down a plane in international airspace if it is using sophisticated technology to spy from the air? Is that like Section 2.A-1 of the Faisal Convention? I suppose that Section 2.A-1(b) would list the exceptions to the rule you have cited. The exception would no doubt be that every country except the US has that right.

I am not talking about legality. Koreans didn't shoot US plane down. You are all jumping the gun.

I asked a simple question. How will US respond if any other country sends its spy planes 150 miles off San Diego coastline? Spying is something u do covertly. If US is brash about sending spy planes across a huge ocean, it should expect the recipient nation to get pissed off.

Probably follow the rules of engagement.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
I am not talking about legality. Koreans didn't shoot US plane down. You are all jumping the gun.

I asked a simple question. How will US respond if any other country sends its spy planes 150 miles off San Diego coastline? Spying is something u do covertly. If US is brash about sending spy planes across a huge ocean, it should expect the recipient nation to get pissed off.
[/QUOTE]

I agree totally. Faisal you make good points. The US is acting like a bully in a schoolyard who finally gets beaten up, and yells "no fair".

Uhhhh Faisal. The answer to your question is evident by the fact that the US has not caused a diplomatic incident by harassing Soviet or Russian spy planes or spy planes of any other country flying in international airspace since the beginning of the cold war. Nor have we engaged in battles with Soviet or Russian subs patrolling along our coasts in international waters since that time. We don't try to blow up Russian satellites spying upon us nor do the Soviets do the same to ours.

The NKs are simply acting like a rogue and are provoking people all over the world by their bellicose words and equally bellicose actions.

Yeah.. well.. no one has a "right" to spy on another person. If a dude sits in his car on the street and continues to peeks into my home thru his binoculors, u can bet I will call police, even though the dude is in "international air space". Or at a minimum, I will walk out and tell him to "bugger off!".

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Yeah.. well.. no one has a "right" to spy on another person. If a dude sits in his car on the street and continues to peeks into my home thru his binoculors, u can bet I will call police, even though the dude is in "international air space". Or at a minimum, I will walk out and tell him to "bugger off!".
[/QUOTE]

Just put up some curtains!!! Sheesh. Unless the guy with the specs fits the profile of a Middle Eastern male, possibly a practiitoner of the Islamic faith, the cops won't do a bloody thing. If he does fit that profile, you likely would never see him again. (Neither would his family).

.... and if I traumatize the bugger by chasing him off for trying to peek into my home, he is not likely to go to the police and complain that I am not allowing him to spy in peace ..... unless ofcourse the bugger is USA.

Question is, could there be an escalation of tensions in the Korean Peninsula eventually leading to an armed conflict?

Korea: Confrontation Threat Is Growing](Austin360: News about restaurants, music and things to do in Austin TX) Austin American Statesman

By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA. 04 Mar 03, Associated Press Writer

SEOUL, South Korea (AP)–After North Korean fighter jets intercepted a U.S. reconnaissance plane, the communist country said Tuesday the threat of armed confrontation on the Korean Peninsula was growing because of what it called U.S. aggression. North Korea did not comment on the interception of the plane. Its state-run media instead criticized annual U.S.-South Korean military exercises that began Tuesday, saying they were preparation for an attack. The exercise, named Foal Eagle, ends April 2. ``This Foal Eagle exercise is escalating the danger of armed clashes on the Korean Peninsula,‘’ said Minju Joson, a North Korean newspaper.

``If the eagle swoops down on us, a nuclear war will break out and it is clear that the whole Korean nation will not escape nuclear holocaust,‘’ said the report, which was monitored by South Korea’s Yonhap news agency. North Korea routinely condemns such exercises, but the belligerent rhetoric and the interception of the American plane come amid fears the North could make nuclear bombs within months.

U.S. military officials say the annual maneuver is ``defense-oriented’’ and is not related to the nuclear dispute. Lt. Cmdr. Jeff Davis, a Pentagon spokesman, said four North Korean fighter jets had approached the U.S. plane over the Sea of Japan on Sunday, coming as close as 50 feet. One used its radar to identify the plane as a target, but there was no hostile fire, he said.

Davis said it was the first such incident since 1969, when a North Korean plane shot down a U.S. Navy EC-121 surveillance plane, killing all 31 Americans aboard. In an interview with 14 U.S. newspapers, President Bush repeated the American stance that the situation can be resolved with diplomacy. According to The Baltimore Sun, Bush said that while the military option has not been taken off the table, it would be a last resort.

Asked how successful diplomatic efforts have been, Bush said: It's in process. If they don't work diplomatically, they'll have to work militarily. And military option is our last choice. Options are on the table, but I believe we can deal with this diplomatically. I truly do.'' **In a commentary, North Korea's Minju Joson described Bush as a political illiterate and a shameless impostor who has dull senses of the times.‘’**

The newspaper also appealed to South Koreans, who host 37,000 U.S. soldiers on their soil, to join North Korea in resisting the United States. The interception of the U.S. plane appeared to be part of an effort to pressure the United States into negotiations on chief North Korean aims: a nonaggression treaty and economic aid. ``The reckless move is a signal to the United States at a time when Washington pays little attention to North Korea’s repeated demand for direct dialogue,‘’ said Lee Suk-soo, a military studies professor at the National Defense College in Seoul.

North Korea on Tuesday reiterated its demand for a nonaggression pact, saying through Radio Pyongyang that it was ``to remove an unreasonable U.S. threat, not to gain something.‘’ The radio was monitored by Yonhap. Washington, which is preparing for a possible war against Iraq, says it will not be blackmailed into concessions and that North Korea’s efforts to develop nuclear weapons are a multilateral issue. The U.N. Security Council is expected to debate the matter.

North Korea test-fired a missile into the sea off its east coast on the eve of South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun’s inauguration last week. On Feb. 20, a North Korean MiG-19 warplane crossed over the South’s western sea border, but retreated after South Korean jets flew to the area. Last week, U.S. officials said North Korea had restarted a nuclear reactor that is at the center of a suspected weapons program. The reactor could yield enough plutonium for an atomic bomb in about a year, experts say.

North Korea, which has warned a U.S. attack on its nuclear facilities at Yongbyon would trigger war, could also decide to reactivate a reprocessing facility near the reactor. Such a move could allow it to make several nuclear bombs within months, according to defense analysts. The United States believes the North already has one or two nuclear bombs. North Korean complaints about reconnaissance flights by U.S. planes had grown more frequent before the incident Sunday. On Saturday, the North said a U.S. RC-135 reconnaissance plane intruded into its airspace off the east coast daily for a week.

The current nuclear dispute began in October when U.S. officials said the North acknowledged it had a secret nuclear program in violation of a 1994 agreement. Washington and its allies suspended oil shipments and North Korea responded by moving to reactivate frozen nuclear facilities and withdrawing from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

The U.S. has sent 24 B-1 and B-52 bombers to Guam due to NK recent behavior. Reconnaissance planes will likely start having U.S. fighter jet escorts to ward off any more NK MiG's they might send up.

Hello Folks,

Perhaps you all believe that this is the first time that an international incident has happened like this.

Not true.

During the cold war Russia would WEEKLY send Badger and Backfire bombers (when they could get the bloody things flying) to the Eastern coast of the United States. Or they would come over the north pole. We would scramble fighters, and they would turn at the last minute and head home for Mother Russia. To imagine that the US has not played this game a hundred times, even on our own coasts, is to forget history.

This is sort of childs play compared to the Russia who had thousands of nuclear war heads aimed at the US for the better part of four decades.

There are plenty of big nasty boomer submarines right off the coast of North Korea with ICBMs that will render them toast in about three minutes if they launch a big one at South Korea, Japan or the US. With that said, is it any wonder that we have no particular hurry in caving to their wishes. They are a desperate, starving, miguided cult that calls themselves a country. So long as their economy is grossly mismanged and the people are starving, and they have 1940's technology, the advantage is ours to wait them out til they implode. But they are in all ways, and in all directions, contained.

The very public reminder of moving our bombers to Guam is simply a well publicized statement that they should not misbehave whilst we are dealing with other priorities at the moment. The North Koreans worst nightmare is that we dispatch with Iraq quickly, and that Iran makes nice nice. In about three months their paranoia meter will be jumping off the scale. A UN sponsored blockade would be a very good start come summer, and not very hard to do.....

The North Korean window of opportunity will be very short to appear powerful and threatening. They may make the best of it. For the most part the US Navy will be preoccupied with Iraq for the first three to four weeks of any conflict. After that they will be available for other duties. The North Koreans would not be doing this crap with four or five carriers off the coast.....

I thought US spy planes cannot be detected by radar (stealth etc).How is it that N.Korea was able to find the plane, get close and in fact lock in? One of the two are provoking the other on purpose.

B-2 Stealth is a bomber, which was shot down by Serbs and they took out rally in Belgrade with placards "Sorry, we didn't knew it was not to be seen!". There may be some stealth spy planes too.

And OG just proved my point: "We would scramble fighters, and they would turn at the last minute and head home for Mother Russia". This is exactly what I was saying since post #1. No one needs to take crap from someone else. If you wanna spy, spy in your own country, and if you get caught spying in other countries, just shut up (figuratively speaking, i.e., don't take it seriously) instead of acting indignant. Yeah, if you wanna bomb NK, go ahead, by all means. Thats a separate issue. But to protest NK circling your spy plane spying into them is inane. :)

First US got a huge kick in the rear for doing the same antics up China's alley, but it seems they never learn.

The Serbs hit an F-117A Stealth Fighter ($90 million per), those use technology that's 20 years old. The B-2 bomber is the real deal (cost $2.5 billion per), they didn't hit that.

The spy planes themselves are large and slow.

I dont think the main clash is over the "why" aspect but rather on the "way" ......as it was evident after reading up that US is pissed at the aggresive tactics employed by the n.koreans on contact with the plane. Especially the part about them obtaining the radar lock on the US plane. I think this is just mere sabre rattling by the koreans and us should just shrug it off.

Faisal,

The fun is in the game! Filing a "protest", doing a thunder bump on the other guys plane, that is the low level conflict that took place for decades with the Russians. We are good at it. And timing is everything. Indignant looks good, and gives us some cover to be aggressive later on.....

The recon plane that the NK's played with is basically a civilian 707 loaded with computers and sensors. Pretty easy pickins' for four NK fighters. The North Koreans get about 30 hours of flight time per year in a plane. The average Navy pilot gets that in a month. More than likely the Nimitz, which has just undergone a major overhaul and has three new squadrons of "Super Hornets" will move away from the Persian Gulf after the major part of the Iraq conflict is over. It will sail under the US recon planes in international waters, and THEN we will let the fun begin.

And Faisal, no B-2 has ever been shot down. Some B-1's have crashed, but what you are referring to is an f-117 that was shot down in 1999 over Yugoslavia. They refer it that as the "golden bb" incident. Answer this, in all those years of flying "no-fly zones", has Iraq shot down a single airplane?

The only scenario that worries the US military is a full out conventional attack on South Korea. If the North uses nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons, we nuke them into oblivion. But a conventional fight would mean a lot of lives lost on the south Korean side before the US could blow them back over the border. Short of that scenario the US holds all the cards. Time is on our side, and we will simply play out the hand....

F-117, yes. Not B-2. Both are considered Stealth.

I find the whole situation kinda hilarious. Probably bcz we, as in most muslims, have little or no interest in much of the Korean peninsula, except perhaps those who bought 10 year/100,000 mile guarantee Kia cars. I mean, who cares. So US and NK can do all kinds of arm-wrestlings and growling and protests and we get some good chuckles.

This is probably one of the few major international conflicts, where CNN does not subject the viewers to names like Muhammad, Sheikh and Ahmad. Hearing Ashcroft today was like listening to Jeddah's telephone directory. The only thing mildly funny was the way he was struggling with all those names.

Faisal,

Jonathan Watts of the Guardian has some great reporting on North Korea. He has a video on the Guardian web site that is almost too sad to be funny. Here is one of his latest reports:

Our fiends in the North

While North Korea has a good claim to describe itself as an injured party, its woeful public relations efforts serve only to help other nations demonise it, writes Jonathan Watts

Friday February 21, 2003

Given North Korea’s manifold woes, public relations probably ranks very low on the list of the Pyongyang government’s priorities, but if there was ever a country in need of an image consultant it is this one.
Scapegoats rarely come so perfectly packaged. No bullying victim could make life easier for its tormentors. Not even the most wretched, maladjusted child could make itself so unloveable.

North Korea manages to infuriate everyone. It is as if the country has a dose of Tourette syndrome, the hereditary malady often associated with involuntary swearing and obscene gestures.