US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale (merged)

This is a major victory for Pakistan…

By Jim Wolf

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060531/ts_nm/arms_pakistan_usa_dc

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration said Wednesday it was planning to let Pakistan buy advanced Boeing Co. Harpoon anti-ship missiles and related equipment valued at up to $370 million in “a significant upgrade” of the Asian nation’s existing weapons systems.

Of the total “Block II” Harpoon missiles sought by Pakistan, 50 would be for launch from submarines, 50 from surface ships and 30 by air, the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency said in a notice to Congress required by law.

The equipment would provide “a significant upgrade to Pakistan’s existing systems and allow for improved target acquisition,” said the agency, which handles U.S. government-to-government weapons sales.

The notice does not mean that a sale has been concluded. In addition, Congress can interfere.

“This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that continues to be a key ally in the global war on terrorism,” the agency added.

Chicago-based Boeing describes the advanced Harpoon as capable of knocking out coastal defenses, surface-to-air missile sites and exposed aircraft as well as ships in port. It uses a satellite-aided inertial navigation system.

The upgraded targeting capability “significantly reduces the risk of hitting noncombatant targets, thus improving Pakistan’s naval operational flexibility,” the agency told Congress.

Pakistan, which has fought three wars with neighboring India since partition of British India in 1947, plans to use the Harpoon on its Lockheed Martin Corp. P-3 maritime surveillance aircraft, surface ships and submarines, the agency said.

The Bush administration last June signed a 10-year defense pact with India outlining expanded two-way defense trade, missile-defense cooperation plans and increased opportunities for technology transfers and weapons co-production.

Last year, Pentagon officials gave India a classified briefing on Patriot Advanced Capability (PAC-3) short-range missile defense systems built by Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed and Raytheon Co. of Waltham, Massachusetts.

US plans “significant” Pakistan missile sale

This demonstrates that military and strategic ties between Pakistan and the US are actually getting stronger.

US plans “significant” Pakistan missile

The Bush administration said Wednesday it was planning to let Pakistan buy advanced Boeing Co. Harpoon anti-ship missiles and related equipment valued at up to $370 million in “a significant upgrade” of the Asian nation’s existing weapons systems. Of the total “Block II” Harpoon missiles sought by Pakistan, 50 would be for launch from submarines, 50 from surface ships and 30 by air, the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency said in a notice to Congress required by law. The equipment would provide “a significant upgrade to Pakistan’s existing systems and allow for improved target acquisition,” said the agency, which handles U.S. government-to-government weapons sales. The notice does not mean that a sale has been concluded. In addition, Congress can interfere. “This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that continues to be a key ally in the global war on terrorism,” the agency added.

Chicago-based Boeing describes the advanced Harpoon as capable of knocking out coastal defenses, surface-to-air missile sites and exposed aircraft as well as ships in port. It uses a satellite-aided inertial navigation system. The upgraded targeting capability “significantly reduces the risk of hitting noncombatant targets, thus improving Pakistan’s naval operational flexibility,” the agency told Congress. Pakistan, which has fought three wars with neighboring India since partition of British India in 1947, plans to use the Harpoon on its Lockheed Martin Corp. P-3 maritime surveillance aircraft, surface ships and submarines, the agency said. The Bush administration last June signed a 10-year defense pact with India outlining expanded two-way defense trade, missile-defense cooperation plans and increased opportunities for technology transfers and weapons co-production. Last year, Pentagon officials gave India a classified briefing on Patriot Advanced Capability (PAC-3) short-range missile defense systems built by Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed and Raytheon Co. of Waltham, Massachusetts.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060531/ts_nm/arms_pakistan_usa_dc

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale

Already posted in other pakistan forum

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale

Yup this has been great news.

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale

What do you think the US will want in return? This requires congressional approval.
One thing to note, this is a re-election year. Congress wants to seem tough on terrorism, spread of nuclear weapons, and want to distance themselves from GW's policies. Already the House wants to hold hearings on AQ Khan's activities. So, what do you think they will want in return for this?
Another thing to note: Harpoons do nothing to shift the balance of power in the region. This is not a weapon to deploy against the Taliban or the Baloch uprising. This has a specific use. More to the point, this is a PR stunt so Musharaff can say he got something, little though it may be, so he will not seem like he bends to US pressure.
Last time the US gave something to Pakistan, F-16, they gave the technology and manufacturing rights to India. Do you really thing the US would shift policy or do anything to marginilize India?

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale (merged)

Pakistan has yet to hand over control of it's nuclear programme to the US like India has after the congressional demands, so I guess Indian envy is predictable over this offer over the missiles.

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale (merged)

U r a non nato ally. we are so afraid to attack u..
nhoooo.... i am shivering..:D

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale (merged)

^^ its not non nato ally status you are afraid off, but something else that stopped you to attack, its Pakistan itself and its nukes.

Re: US plans “significant” Pakistan missile sale (merged)

^yeah! the nukes in “irresponsible hands” :hehe:

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale


That is why Bharatis may never get the nukie stuff approved. Harpoons for Pak on the other hand are non-nukie so calm down.

I love it when midgets of Bharati PR machine huff and puff on this board. On #3 you are right. These weapons are Bharat specific (and not usable against tribal terrorists).

And Bharatis now have used that technology to finally build the LCA. NOT! Hahahaha*

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale

Janab, I keep telling you not to comment on things on which you are not versed. Have you heard, Congress cut aid and military assistance to Pakistan by 33%? Apparently something about not being a democracy. Imagine, the most allied ally and a major Non-Nato ally at that, getting aid reduced. How do you suppose the Harpoons will fare? Think they'll bring up AQ Khan with the Harpoons come up?

Re: US plans “significant” Pakistan missile sale (merged)

US envoy says aid to Pakistan will not be cut

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - The United States will not scale back its aid commitment to Islamabad, the U.S. ambassador said on Thursday, following media reports that Congress had proposed cuts over Pakistan’s democracy and rights record. U.S. ambassador Ryan Crocker said there would be no cut to the full amount promised in 2003 – $3 billion over five years up to 2009. “We are a democracy, Congress has its views, but I would like to make very clear that this administration is totally committed to providing the full amount,” Crocker said following a signing ceremony for an agreement on $200 million in budgetary support. Pakistan is a key U.S. ally in the war on terrorism, but critics point to a nuclear proliferation scandal involving the country’s top nuclear scientist, as well as its track record in areas such as human rights and democracy. Some U.S. officials also say Pakistan is not doing enough to stop Taliban insurgents from using areas on the Pakistan side of the Afghan border to launch attacks on U.S. and other troops in Afghanistan. Half of the $3 billion promised in 2003 was economic assistance and half was military aid.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-06-15T112516Z_01_ISL214967_RTRUKOC_0_US-PAKISTAN-USA-AID.xml&archived=False

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale (merged)

Why are some of you guys so proud on getting aid. Don't you feel that its better to be self sufficient?
Congress has its own views and at the end they are very important.

Re: US plans “significant” Pakistan missile sale (merged)

The amount was supposed to be $300 million. What happened to the other $100 million? Here, read it from a Pakistani source: http://nation.com.pk/daily/june-2006/12/editorials2.php

By the way, did you hear. The day Harpoons were potentially offered to Pakistan, Boeing offered the Joint Strike Fighter to India. Now, do you think Boeing can make an offer like that without a nod from the US administration?

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale (merged)

^
No need to use personal insults.

The US is yet to give it's full and final aid total for this year, and the ambassaor has confirmed it will give it will be paid full. What Congress has stated is only a proposal, not the actual disbursement of aid which has yet to happen, and the US ambassador has said it will be paid in full.

If you had cared to look at the facts, last year Congress had also **proposed **the same, but Pakistan was actually paid $701 million dollars - which is more than they were supposed to for the year. Go check it out and you will see.

Is the India nuclear deal still stuck in Congress, with more and more demands being added?

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale (merged)

Actually, there are no more demands added. But then again, I'm not foolish to think that there won't be more demands.
As for what the Ambassador says, and what Congress budgets are two different things. The "excess" from last year were relief, and not a part of the aid package. Now do you really think that the Ambassador is really going to say you're not getting money from Uncle Sam?

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale (merged)

More and more demands are being made on India, and the deal is stuck in Congress, a year after it was first offered by the US.

Congress proposed similar cuts in aid to Pakistan last year, but in the end the US government paid more than what was originally due ($701 million) for the year. The same will happen this year. In addition hundreds of millions dollars more were paid later in the year for earthquake relief.

Re: US plans "significant" Pakistan missile sale (merged)

NameInUse: I do not know if my understanding the news is wrong or yours.

Here is the news, confirming that there is no change in American promised financial support for Pakistan.

U.S. ambassador Ryan Crocker said there would be no cut to the full amount promised in 2003 -- $3 billion over five years up to 2009. "We are a democracy, Congress has its views, but I would like to make very clear that this administration is totally committed to providing the full amount," Crocker said following a signing ceremony for an agreement on $200 million in budgetary support.

Let compare it with news in Nation that you referred.

The House, while reducing by $250 million to $300 million of aid to Pakistan, talked of its failure “to do enough” to improve human rights, particularly the rights of women, democratic governance and the rule of law. By a 373-34 vote, it also slashed foreign military financing to Pakistan from the proposed $300 million to $200 million, registering a fall of 33 percent.

What is the background: The aid USA promised to Pakistan was $3 billions in 5 years. Half of that $3 billion is economical aid and half in military aid. That means economical aid of $1.5 billion and military aid of $1.5 billion. It comes to $300 million economical aid and $300 million military aid every year for next 5 years.

News in Nation (your reference): By a 373-34 vote, it also slashed foreign military financing to Pakistan from the proposed $300 million to $200 million, registering a fall of 33 percent.

News refered by Silly Billy*: U.S. ambassador Ryan Crocker said there would be no cut to the full amount promised in 2003 -- $3 billion over five years up to 2009.*

The above news confirms that there is no reduction in aid, negating Nation news. If aid is still $3 billion over 5 years ending in 2009 (as this arrangement started in 2004), it means that yearly aid is $600 million as usual and that means military aid is still $300 million a year and economical aid is still $300 million.

In Nation news: The House, while reducing by $250 million to $300 million of aid to Pakistan. <-What I can understand is that the news is referring to remaining military aid for coming years as Pakistan has already used up 2 years of aid. So if USA reduced military aid by $300 million then it would come to $100 million less military aid per year, reducing offered $300 million to $200 million, but that is also negated from the above news (aid amount is still $3 billion).

*.

Actually, from present news: Crocker said following a signing ceremony for an agreement on $200 million in budgetary support. <- It seems that apart of above aid, USA is also giving $200 million dollars as budgetary support (that could be grant or another loan concession).

Actually, aid is not grant but it is other name of soft loan. All what west call aid are actually loans. Normally economical part of this loan attracts very little interest rate and military part attracts very high interest rate. During Zia time, Pakistan received such aid and Pakistan took economical part of the aid but did not fully utilized military part of the aid. Other then aid (another name for soft loan, though sometime west write it off too), west also give grants though that is very rare.

Nevertheless, what I heard is that this recent $3 billion aid is not soft loan but is grant or is loan with no interest rate (I am not sure).

What I know, apart of these aid/grants, Pakistan is also charging USA for USA using Pakistan air space, airport, support services, intelligence services and land in their Afghanistan pursuit. What I remember, during earlier years (after 9/11), this was few hundred million dollars a month but after USA reduced Pakistan dependence as they started operating form Afghanistan, this amount went down.

[What I know, Pakistan is the first and only country that charged USA for USA keep using Pakistan airports and other services for their military].

Regardless, I think that Pakistan is no more that desperate to worry about aids. The days when Pakistan debt servicing, foreign trade deficit payments, budget deficit, all use to depend on aids are gone. With over $13 billion reserve that is not decreasing and increasing export, rupees stability and increasing remittance through proper channels, raising hard currency using international bonds, etc is good enough, better then relying on aids.

So, who cares even if USA decides to stop their aid? Though I have to admit that even such news may not effect today’s financially strong Pakistan, it do dishearten many ill-informed and innocent Pakistanis that have little understanding regarding aid, grants, loans and their impacts on country’s economics, rather many do not even understand difference between micro and macro economics of a country.

*For easy understanding, one thing to remember is that: *

A country that has few hundred million dollars reserve that can cover couple of weeks import, export of 7.6 billion dollars, has to pay hundreds of million dollars a month in debt servicing (actually 400 to 500 million dollars a month), uncomfortable still increasing foreign debt, foreign official remittance of around one billion dollars a year, depreciating currency, yearly 600 million dollars aid is a lot. [Pakistan situation was all these, rather worse when President Musharaf took over].

But for a country that has 13 billion dollar reserve that can cover 6 to 8 months import (remember, Pakistan import when Mush took power was less then 10 billion dollars), 18 billion dollar exports that is increasing fast, over 4 billion dollar official remittance that is increasing every year, stable rupees (over the last 5 years, Pak rupees is stable or gaining against the dollar), decreasing external debt and very fast decreasing external debt servicing requirement (around 300 to 350 million dollars a month), yearly 600 million dollars aid is not that important.*

Re: US plans “significant” Pakistan missile sale (merged)

That is correct, and as I stated in the first two years (2004 and 2005) the US actually gave 17% more than the annual “due” amount each year -

$701 million for financial year 2004-2005

http://www.dawn.com/2004/07/18/top1.htm

$698.3 million financial year 2005-2006

http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?id=75752

Hence, where the US was due to give Pakistan $1.2 billion in the first two years, it actually allotted + gave $1.4 billion. So the US has in fact given Pakistan $200 millon in advance or on top of the promised $3 billion.

In addition to the above the US gave many hundreds of millions more in aid to Pakistan after the earthquake last October.

Re: US plans “significant” Pakistan missile sale (merged)

Bill, you’re counting aid given for the earthquake.
Here, take a read at this: http://www.pakobserver.net/200606/12/Editorial01.asp?txt=US%20aid%20cut:an%20eye-opener