US democracy only 37 years old.

Well with institutional racism and the subjugation of the African american, the US can not claim that it has been a democracy for 200 years. Rather it has been a democracy for only 37 years. Of course the issue of women and concentration camps in the US is not mentioned really. The Japanese concentration camps, the murder of Americans with german names, and the witch hunts are rarely mentioned. This all as a back drop to the racist policies of the state. Then of course there is the red scare, which was not the sign of a democractic institution at all. Rather of a xenophobic and totalitarian state.

After this now we have the attacks on muslims and the racial profiling of muslims in all walks of life. I must say for a country with a democracy the us is doing pretty pathetically. But for a 37 year old democracy, it is good. Sadly the period before 1965 compares to Saudi and the Taliban rule in Afghanistan.

Which is 37 more years than any Muslim majority country.

C'mon, your institutionalized hatred of US is obviously impairing your judgement. US compared to Taliban and Saudi Arabia? lol

Seminole: You are wrong once again. The perfect society was in Arabia in the 700's. We are all hoping to revert back to those days. When the camels also had a right to vote.

There is no other system or country in the world that gives importance and rights to the individual than the USA. It is an ever evolving marvel that allows the individual citizens to make the most of his/her talents. No other country in the world offers such opportunities. That's why US embassies are packed in the muslim world with people looking to emigrate.

The simple reason is that no where in the world happiness of the individual is guaranteed in the constitution. This is a very important thing. Becuase for each individual happiness comes in different forms. And the US constitution prescribes each individual the right to "life..liberty and the Pursuit of happiness". A fantastic and visionary statement that keeps the people flocking to these shores.

If you were white that is. History is what i use and it is simple to see that Black people werent allowed to vote for any institution. What is that if not instituational racism? Plus you guys know what happened to the first UN human rights resolution right?

CM: No one is saying that US is perfect or its history is beyond reproach. Just like other countries. The Arabs were hugely involved in slave trade when the US was founded. It is very easy to play monday morning quarterback and dissect the wrongs that one society or country has done. But it's always a basket analysis. You weigh the good with the bad. Even during colonial times, when the constitution was being written Luminaries like Hancock and adams were viruently against slavery. During the Japanese internments, Ronal Reagan gave a speech as an ator, proclaiming the natural rights of Japanese American citizens. So you se, at every turn there is deliberation and dialogue. That's what makes AMerica great... This is what is happening re: Iraq now.

To pick up a few things and proclaim them as the typical American modus is not only innacurate but also a poor reflection on your education and deduction skills.

Chaltahai, I am afraid that you are the one who is wrong. Because if all that you say is true, then why is there such animosity toward US on this board? Is it the pursuit of happiness that rubs them the wrong way? Are they so inherently unhappy that they begrudge Americans because we are so damn happy?

What's the point of this thread? U.S. Bashing? If we want to turn this into a forum that picks all that has been wrong with Humanity than so be it, but I don't see the point of that.

CM: Please say a word or two about the history & democracy of the country you live in ... just so the thread stay balanced & just not against US.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
If you were white that is. History is what i use and it is simple to see that Black people werent allowed to vote for any institution. What is that if not instituational racism? Plus you guys know what happened to the first UN human rights resolution right?
[/QUOTE]

Yes the Americans also went into the second world war with segregated black army regiments, and to fight facism in Europe. Can you believe the irony?

well CM chanda then it's better than you thought!! only 37 years and look where this country is today!!

Compare it with Pakistan which has had it's chance at democracy for over 50 years now.. and look at how we're indebted to every rich country in the world and consider it our religious duty to blow up innocent Christians and support the actions of our barbarian friends next doors and root for Osama.

PakistaniAbroad,

Is that really the case? if we really did "consider it our religious duty to blow up innocent Christians and support the actions of our barbarian friends next doors and root for Osama." I'm sure you would have seen plenty of people praising the murder of innocent Christians in the thread in PA, but I don't recall seeing any. It's amazing also how this nation of fundos has never voted in Osama's followers if we are all rooting for him. In fact the religious parties have never won more than 5% in any elections till now.

that was pre-911.. now when your newborns are named after him the MMA might secure more than the traditional 5%..

and it's no secret that in the hearts of their heart, the majority in Pakistan think Osama did the right thing, the Americans deserved it and moreover the Taliban were a 'model Islamic state'..

Ah good to see so many americans on this forum again. Now one by one lets see who was first. Ah...seminole, i will reply in more detail to your comment about the taliban and Saudi. What do these 2 govts have in power? They subjugate women and violate human rights on a daily basis. What did the US do before 1965? The very same. The black man was not considered a human being. They were killed for the heck of things or for stupid things like drinking from the same water fountain as a white man. Does that make sense? Nope. But it was common practice in the land of the free. Ironic isnt it, that the land of the free subjuagted and have slavery for a good tenure of its existance.

Infoman, the US is not what it is cracked up to be. The govt of the US has commited crimes that rival stalin and pol pot. Dont get me started in Vietnam and Agent Orange. The US was until 1965 a racist state for the black man. Until 1920s against womens vote. Not exactly a free and democractic nation now is it? Hancock and Adams would be defined as terrorist by the british. So what if they were against slavery, they set up a govt and built a nation on it.

Take a look at Infomans select use of words. Call a rose a rose, they were japanese concentration camps. Accept it. The Japanese were locked up and kept away from society, their property was taken, their lives destroyed. What did Hitler do? He only took it one step further. He killed the jews.

Yeah freedom of speech makes american great, where the KKK and Neo Nazis prosper and flourish.

Sem why is there animosity against the US? Read the forum and check the news. The world is a worse place due to bush now. I have nothing against the people of the US. I find them one of the most open minded and tolerant in the world. Take my word for it i have travelled a great deal in my life and i am only 20.

We have, well so of us, mainly the fundos have something against the US as a whole. I have something against the govt. I think it is selfish, ruins the rest of the world for the benefit for a few. It takes what i wants and does what it wants with no checks and balances. You tell your kids to stand up to bullies. Well the US is the bully on the block. You dont want your kids to cower infront of the bully, then we are vocal why do you complain or try to stop us?

UTD, the aim is to learn from history and not get arrogant. The main cause of any empires fall is their arrogance. The japanese felt they were better than the americans and thus attacked pearl harbor and did not expect a reaction, because americans were lazy. It is time you americans learnt that you aint our savoirs. Rather your govt is the cause of a great deal of the worlds problems.

Ahmadjee we arent talking about Switzerland. As a mod you should know about sticking to a topic rules.

Chanda the democracy is 37 years old. Not the nation, i bet you failed basic logic in high school maths right? So the rest of your argument is not relevant.

*>>>Ahmadjee we arent talking about Switzerland. As a mod you should know about sticking to a topic rules. *

Maybe you should start one. :) No?

I would like to know from all those who criticize the US democracy, if they have a better example? Especially all those British guppies who don't miss any band wagon to criticize the US. How about starting a thread about the balanced, neutral, un biased approach of the British government & its involvement around the world? Would that be a good way to show the Americans where they stand?

Start a thread AJ and i will reply, just an example of Swiss democracy. Women were allowed to vote in 1 province in 1989. So go ahead and start a new thread, i got a problem with this police state as well. Yallah.

Ahmadjee Bhaijan, for them to know about the countries they live in will involve getting outside of the house. Naozobillah, if that ever be the case.

CM. are there women in Switzerland? Get out. I thought the whole place was full of Cows and watches.

Well NYA nobody accuses you of being smart, just full of it. Plus how is Edward Said doing?

CM. Compared to you I am Einstein. But really, what is your source of info about the US democracy? And as Ahmadjee bhaijan is inquiring, what is the benchmark that you use to test your hypothesis? Your theories (in my opinion) are full of holes like Swiss cheese. Malik at least knows a bit about the US because he interned with the House of Representatives, what have you done all this time?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
Ah good to see so many americans on this forum again. Now one by one lets see who was first. Ah...seminole, i will reply in more detail to your comment about the taliban and Saudi. What do these 2 govts have in power? They subjugate women and violate human rights on a daily basis. What did the US do before 1965? The very same. The black man was not considered a human being. They were killed for the heck of things or for stupid things like drinking from the same water fountain as a white man. Does that make sense? Nope. But it was common practice in the land of the free. Ironic isnt it, that the land of the free subjuagted and have slavery for a good tenure of its existance.
[/QUOTE]

This whole concept of blackman was not considered a human being is inconsistent with US history. The civil rights laws of the sixties were not about equality for voting or human worth. They were the repulsion of the Jim Crow laws in the south which had advocated separate but equal policies. SO get your facts straight. THe problem was integration not human worth.

As far as slavery goes. This was due to cash crops of the Americas which were transported around the world by the colonialists. The tobacco and sugar that went to your switzerland from the US and brazil was a result of an economic system that had arab slave traders, african slavers and western plantation owners. You didn't hear much gripe from the caliphate in thsoe times enjoying the indirect taxes from the traders and the europeans enjoying the cheap cotton and tobacco products.

Slavery was an anathema of a time. It would have become obsolete even if Lincoln ro the northerners didn't fight a war for it. Introduction of the machinization would have done away with this type of labor.

[QUOTE]
Infoman, the US is not what it is cracked up to be. The govt of the US has commited crimes that rival stalin and pol pot. Dont get me started in Vietnam and Agent Orange. The US was until 1965 a racist state for the black man. Until 1920s against womens vote. Not exactly a free and democractic nation now is it? Hancock and Adams would be defined as terrorist by the british. So what if they were against slavery, they set up a govt and built a nation on it.
[/QUOTE]

What makes you think US was founded on slavery? Please give me concrete expamples. When did most women get their rights in europe? 20 yrs earlier, 30 years earlier? When did the Saudi women get their rights? What does british calling Hancock and Adams' terrorists have to do with US women or slavery? Adams went on to negtiate the terms of surrender with the brits and became the ambassador plenipotentiary to the UK and France before becoming the first V.P. Do the brits often assign such titles to terrorists? Or have dealings. You have some reading to do.

[QUOTE]
Take a look at Infomans select use of words. Call a rose a rose, they were japanese concentration camps. Accept it. The Japanese were locked up and kept away from society, their property was taken, their lives destroyed. What did Hitler do? He only took it one step further. He killed the jews.
[/QUOTE]

There is a distiction between concentration camos and internment camps. It has to do with the intent. The Germans sued camps to kill. How many japanese died in the camps. To equate the two is ridiculous. The japanese were fed, clothed, upon return they were reparations, propoerty was theirs and legal recourse to seek justice. How many jews in the camps returned? Read the book by Norman Mineta on what transpired. He and his family were part of the ordeal. Americans are not proud of this. That' s why when most muslims onthis board were yelling that there will be interment camps for muslims in the US. Nothing likethat has happened bacuse we learn from our mistakes and do the right thing most of the time.

[QUOTE]
Yeah freedom of speech makes american great, where the KKK and Neo Nazis prosper and flourish.
[/QUOTE]

What is your point? Are there not Neo-Nazis in europe or in Germany torching turks. Here, they get found out and prosecuted.

[QUOTE]
Sem why is there animosity against the US? Read the forum and check the news. The world is a worse place due to bush now. I have nothing against the people of the US. I find them one of the most open minded and tolerant in the world. Take my word for it i have travelled a great deal in my life and i am only 20.

I think at the age of 20 you have a lot of learning to do, and I will personally chalk up the lack of knowledge to your age. Singular stances on complex issues is the bane of the youth. :)

[QUOTE]
We have, well so of us, mainly the fundos have something against the US as a whole. I have something against the govt. I think it is selfish, ruins the rest of the world for the benefit for a few. It takes what i wants and does what it wants with no checks and balances. You tell your kids to stand up to bullies. Well the US is the bully on the block. You dont want your kids to cower infront of the bully, then we are vocal why do you complain or try to stop us?
[/QUOTE]

Rhetoric..means absolutely nothing. WE give more than anyone in world in aid to the very people who have disdain for us. IF US was so bad, we would stop the checks let Pakistan default and only cater to countries that matter. China, Europe and Russia.

[QUOTE]
UTD, the aim is to learn from history and not get arrogant. The main cause of any empires fall is their arrogance. The japanese felt they were better than the americans and thus attacked pearl harbor and did not expect a reaction, because americans were lazy. It is time you americans learnt that you aint our savoirs. Rather your govt is the cause of a great deal of the worlds problems.
[/QUOTE]

What makes you think the Japanese thought the US was lazy? THis kind of statement is the real indication of blind views without any real factual info. US never wants to be your saviors, but when you are hell bent on destroying your own civilization and take the world with you, then you have to bear the burden as well. (You being rhetorical) The fight came to us, now you don't like the terms of engagement. Wah!

[QUOTE]
Ahmadjee we arent talking about Switzerland. As a mod you should know about sticking to a topic rules.

Chanda the democracy is 37 years old. Not the nation, i bet you failed basic logic in high school maths right? So the rest of your argument is not relevant.
[/QUOTE]

Actually this democracy IS over 200 years old. It has changed and will keep on changing as democracies do. Those who haven't expereinced it are understably more monolithic in their views.

Struck a nerve have i? You require proof for what happened in 1965? Yeah some Einstein you are. I dont have the time at present, but i will ask our resident havard graduate to read up on the views of the Japanese king before pear harbor. The degree you hold doesnt show your level of competence. Bush is an excellent example