US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

You know the Americans keep saying it would destablize Pakistan and all and I frankly don't agree with them. It would be the one thing the Army and the Taliban would actually side together on and it would get the people behind the military and government full swing. Pakistanis may be ready to kill each but hell when it comes to America we all put our differences aside and ***** about them with equal fervor.

The only problem you will have is that if there are raids across the border and the military does nothing. Then you will have trouble. However if the military and government do decide to engage in a low intensity war with the US and Afghanistan in FATA and Loya Paktika, the People will side with them.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

FATA is technically in Pakistan but realistically is an independent area where Pakistan government has no authority at all.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

With the debt America is in right now theres no way they can muster the sort of power some believe they have.

Oh and in the first Gulf War America was part of an International effort directed by the UN in which more than 40 countries helped out. Including Britian, France and Germany.

USA would not have a UN mandate this time round and nowhere near that sort of overwhelming firepower so it certainly evens the odds out. With America gradually sinking into a mire of debt there is no way it can afford to light up Kabul let alone try and firestorm most of Pakistan.

So much for Indian wet dreams of Pakistan being wiped out... if India tried to help America in such attempts China would gladly put India in its place.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

No government has ever tried to bring them in the fold of Pakistan, and I'll say again that military is not the way to subdue and make them Pakistanis.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Americans did not call for an all out war against Pakistan. Instead they talked of covert military operations in FATA. Pakistan has no significant military presence there anyway.
If war against Pakistan was on their cards then they would have at least stopped the aid the US is still doling out to us.

And if you look at all previous wars they started, they always start with imposition of sanctions on the country, and thus make it weak before starting an all out war.

In fact they still have not lost hope that Pakistan will stop its support of terrorists in FATA. But unfortunately, they might be wrong.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

I don't think claiming a territory from terrorists who are bane for people of FATA is "subduing" the people of FATA.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

If they are a part of Pakistan, why are the laws different in FATA as compared to the rest of the country? Why havent they been included in the mainstream during the past 64 years? Why can't political parties contest elections there? Some changes have been made in the current PPP government, but more are required to bring them in the fold of the wider Pakistani community. Most of the problems there are political and economical in nature, and can be resolved if there is a political will.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Yes, sure.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

The problem has been that military has had almost direct control of the area (FC Is paramilitary) and whatever police we had over there has been wiped out by the taliban. It doesn't mean that the army has to do a repeat of the artillery barrage in Operation Rah-e-Raast, though one poll did find large support for operations if they were conducted by the army. The army would have to build the capacity of the security forces there and sadly, those who think that it is just economical and political are living in the la-la land propagated by the like of Imran Khan.

But forget any reforms will take place in the future. Pakistan is in a "war" in afghanistan and I don't think the army is even giving one thought to the comprehensive reforms needed in FATA since it is all about confronting america, india / iran? and their proxies for right now. I do think that america would eventually come around to Pakistan, after all the pissing contest of pride has diminished, since Pakistan is only "ally" America has in the region that borders afghanistan. Of course, a revolution could happen in Iran and a nationalist or pro american shah type "democrat" could come to power in Iran, but the political earthquake that would reveberate would resonate much further than afghanistan as pakistan's usefulness would decrease drastically to the US.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

I don't know what are you talking about? Criticizing or condemning killing of innocent people by drones is one thing, fighting a war with Americans is another. Do you want that this remaining Pakistan should also vanish from the map of the world?

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Talking about nonsense please carry on typing. :D

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Pakistan is not being patient - both the military leadership and civilian leadership are spineless. I think no other country in the world has allowed its self to be humiliated as much as Pakistan has over the last 10 years. America has violated sovereignty and committed many acts of war against Pakistan yet....we are partners!

If we have found nothign to be angry about so far, then its already too late and we dont know what humiliation is.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Here I am giving an article published in BBC News in October 2011, the shaded areas show taleban activity and they are on both sides of the border. The war can be won only if the taleban are eradicated from both sides, but in this case most of Eastern Afghanistan the Americans have left on the mercy of the taleban.

Hence there are only two solutions to the problem considering the current ground situation:

  1. Pakistan carries out operations indiscriminately in all terrorist infested areas and after driving the militants across the border, mines/fence the border so that they cannot return back. The Afghan government and the tribes in FATA will not accept closing the borders. Otherwise we will keep seeing the militant movement across the borders (since the borders are porous). The same tribes reside on both sides of the border therefore any war in Afghanistan will have a spill over effect in Pakistan.

  2. Peace in Afghanistan, coupled with political and economical reforms in FATA and other tribal areas within KP.

The first point is a short term solution, where as the second one I consider to be a long term solution.

More details can be read in the article @ BBC News - The Afghan-Pakistan militant nexus

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Some information about Kunar, which was vacated by the Americans after Pakistan started operations in Mohmand/Dir etc.

ISAF targets al Qaeda leaders in Kunar - The Long War Journal

Kunar is a known haven for al Qaeda and allied terror groups such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba. Six months prior to his death, Osama bin Laden issued instructions to his chief of staff, Atiyah Abd al Rahman, to relocate “hundreds” of commanders and fighters from North Waziristan to Kunar, Nuristan, Ghazni, and Zabul provinces in Afghanistan to avoid targeting by US drone strikes. Bin Laden’s letter to Atiyah was dated Oct. 21, 2010. [See LWJ report,Bin Laden advised relocation of some leaders to Afghanistan due to drone strikes in Waziristan.]

It is unclear if bin Laden’s instructions were followed, but several al Qaeda leaders and operatives were killed, captured, and targeted in those four provinces after the letter was written. Bin Laden said that “Kunar is more fortified due to its rougher terrain and the many mountains, rivers, and trees and it can accommodate hundreds of the brothers without being spotted by the enemy.”

For years, the rugged, remote Afghan province of Kunar has served as a sanctuary for al Qaeda and allied terror groups. The presence of al Qaeda cells has been detected in the districts of Asmar, Asadabad, Dangam, Marawana, Pech, Shaikal Shate, Sarkani, Shigal, and Watahpur; or nine of Kunar’s 15 districts, according to press releases issued by the International Security Assistance Force that have been compiled by The Long War Journal.

Despite the known presence of al Qaeda camps in Kunar, US troops abandoned several combat outposts in Kunar in late 2009 after major attacks on remote bases. US Army commanders said that the outposts were closed or turned over to Afghan forces as part of a new counterinsurgency strategy to secure population centers. The Taliban have gained control of several districts in Kunar since US forces withdrew from those bases.

But as the US military began drawing down its forces in Kunar in late 2009, it acknowledged that al Qaeda camps were in operation in the province. ISAF noted these camps and bases when it announced the death of an al Qaeda leader during a raid on a base in late 2009, as well as in a press release announcing the deaths of two senior al Qaeda operatives in 2010.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

In Ghazni, Eastern Afghanistan the operations have started for the first time (This month). Before the American troops it was with the Polish and they did nothing to rid the area from extremists.

For U.S. Troops, One More Big Push In Afghanistan : NPR

Several thousand soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division are taking part in what is being called the last major combat offensive of the Afghan War.

**Their task is to clear Ghazni province in eastern Afghanistan, a Taliban stronghold and a key prize because it straddles the major roads to Kabul and the insurgent supply routes into Pakistan.
**
**But the American troops are challenged by a stubborn enemy and a short time to finish the job.
**
The first casualty happened before the mission even started: An Afghan army soldier, Burhan Muddin, was standing watch at his combat outpost when a Taliban gunman slipped out of a crowd and opened fire.

A single bullet pierced the Afghan soldier’s chest.

Three Afghan soldiers rushed him to a nearby American base, then struggled to carry him into a medical station. Doctors and nurses worked furiously but couldn’t save him.

Muddin was just 25. His body was carefully wrapped in a white sheet and placed in an ambulance. His fellow soldiers embraced the Americans and wept.

Hours later, in the dead of night, some of the same soldiers were ready for the mission: an assault — along with American troops — on a village in Ghazni province. A Taliban stronghold, Bagi Kheyl is just 10 minutes away from their post by helicopter.

A long line of soldiers from the Afghan National Army, or ANA, bobs along in the pitch black. The occasional flashlight illuminates their dark eyes and bearded faces.

They’re eager to avenge their friend.

“If I get any bad guy over there, I will kill him. Because they killed one of our guys,” says one.

**Key To Taliban Supply Routes
**
**But it’s about more than revenge: The Taliban hold sway in Ghazni province. They’ve killed dozens of Afghan troops. The Taliban lob mortars and rockets into the small American outposts. They intimidate the people in villages like Bagi Kheyl.
**
Just before getting on his helicopter for the night mission, Capt. Jared Larpenteur, Delta Company commander, stood in front of a map and described the challenge posed by the Taliban.

**“They’re coming from Pakistan and [Afghanistan’s] Paktika province with their men, weapons and equipment across the pass. And there’s a lot of safe havens in here that they’re using to stage and move their logistical supplies north and south,” he explains.
**
Highway 1, the country’s only main road, travels north to Kabul and south to Kandahar. Ghazni is crucial because it straddles the Taliban’s supply lines.

**But when the Americans sent thousands more troops to Afghanistan, they didn’t come to the area — until now.
**
**Before the Americans arrived just a couple of months ago, a Polish brigade handled security there. But the Poles, says Larpenteur, only served as something of a highway patrol.
**
**“The Polish mostly when they were here stayed on Highway 1 and never really got off Highway 1 into the villages at all. The villages haven’t seen any type of ANA or U.S. forces in over five years,” he says. “We went to one village out here, and they thought we were Russians.”
**
It’s in these villages that the Taliban stockpile their weapons and bomb-making materials. Each time Larpenteur and his men head out, they are met with gunfire or come across roadside bombs.

Seven soldiers from his brigade already have been killed. Many others have been wounded. And on a recent night — they’re expecting to go up against the Taliban again.

**Taliban Infiltration Of Village
**
Massive helicopters lift off in the darkness, stuffed with Delta Company’s soldiers and their Afghan partners.

Minutes later they land in a field and pour out into the swirling dust.

The soldiers regroup, and for the next hour move quietly toward the village of Bagi Kheyl, arriving just as the eastern sky begins to glow.

The soldiers walk through the mud-walled village, single-file on each side of the dirt road. Village men — most of them over 50 — emerge from their compounds. They watch the intruders, standing and staring.

The soldiers question some of the men. One of them talks about how the Taliban infiltrate the village. They slip in on motorcycles or come in at night in small groups, he says. They ask for food, a place to stay. They take over the mosque and broadcast a warning.

“Whenever the Taliban come in here, in this village, they are calling on the loudspeakers of the mosque. If anybody talks to the ANA guys or American guys, I can cut your head,” the villager says.

The mission continues. The soldiers fan out. The Americans instruct the Afghan soldiers to search a mosque, which only Afghans are permitted to enter.

The search turns up rocket-propelled grenades hidden in a wall, along with bomb-making components inside a coffin. The soldiers also find rifles and radios.

The equipment is gathered in a pile and destroyed with American explosives. Another cache is found, piled up and destroyed.

**Success Difficult To Measure
**
Fourteen hours later, the mission is over. There were no Taliban. Still, Enayat Halakeyar, an Afghan sergeant, is pleased.

“That was so good; we found a lot of things and blew up two, three IEDs, that was so good. We are so happy,” he says.

It’s been one more day in the war in Afghanistan. One village searched — out of a countless number spread across Ghazni province and the country.

The Afghan and American soldiers head back to base under a blazing sun. There are no helicopters now. They’ll trudge the five miles through fields and villages. They worry the Taliban are watching. Most patrols come under fire when they leave a village.

But they make it back safely to their base, which is rimmed with razor wire, sandbagged walls and guard towers.

**These soldiers from Fort Bragg, N.C., will spend another four months in the same routine. But they don’t have much time to clear this Taliban stronghold.
**
The officer in charge of the mission is Col. Mark Stock. He sits in his office in a long, plywood building at a base called Warrior.

“At the end of the day, it’s not going to be our success, it’s going to be the Afghans’ success,” Stock says.

When he leaves in September, a smaller American combat unit will replace his soldiers, along with training teams to help the struggling Afghan forces.

“What keeps me up at night is how we transition this, and part of that transition is us backing off and enabling our partners to do it without us and still be successful,” he says.

Across a dirt road from the colonel’s headquarters sit the remains of an old British fort, its 20-foot walls worn like a sandcastle at the beach. The fortress dates back to the mid-19th century — another time when other English-speaking soldiers tried to make a difference in Afghanistan.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

just today there was an attack on our checkpost, 6 FC personnel were killed!
and these are ofcourse the same taliban who have been pushed out of our land and now they are coming back and attacking our army, US has handed over eastern province to taliban, they are free to do whatever they want.

I dont know why our authorities are quiet on all this?

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

^ the problem is that the americans with their drones are busy locating terrorists within Pakistan they can’t see them in nuristan, konar, paktiya, paktika, ghazni and khost.

The Americans won’t do anything about eastern afghanistan but any activity that happens there will be pakistan’s fault. :snooty:

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

peace in Afghanistan is almost impossible as long as US-Afghan forces keep up with their double games, US plans to keep military bases in Afghanistan after 2014, its clearly not sincere in stability of both countries. The good part is US change in its stance on Pakistan is going to bring Pakistanis together, it will result into unity among Pakistanis, be it religious organizations, military or awaam. the message is clear to US, we are not going to tolerate their nonsense anymore.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Nuristan is completely under the control of the Taliban. Kunar is falling next in line from what I have heard. So much so that ISAF is conducting one final push. Which they will lose. Khost and Paktika are in the Hands of the Taliban. So are Zabul, Helmand and parts of Kandahar. I am confused as to what they plan on doing in the next 1 year. The Taliban will come back to power and it will be horrible for the Afghans.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

^ taleban are already there in most areas, they are even raising their head in the Northern parts of Afghanistan with the help of tajiks/uzbeks etc.