US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Seems like the US wants to expand the war into Pakistan.

US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan to hunt down militant groups | Fox News

WASHINGTON – U.S. military and intelligence officials are so frustrated with Pakistan’s failure to stop local militant groups from attacking Americans in neighboring Afghanistan that they have considered launching secret joint U.S.-Afghan commando raids into Pakistan to hunt them down, officials told The Associated Press.

But the idea, which U.S. officials say comes up every couple of months, has been consistently rejected because the White House believes the chance of successfully rooting out the deadly Haqqani network would not be worth the intense diplomatic blowback from Pakistan that inevitably would ensue.

Members of the Haqqani tribe have been targeted by pilotless U.S. drone aircraft, but sending American and Afghan troops into Pakistan would be a serious escalation of the hunt for terrorists and potentially the final straw for Pakistan, already angered over what it sees as U.S. violations of its sovereignty.

The Al Qaeda-allied Haqqani tribe runs a mafia-like smuggling operation and occasionally turns to terrorism with the aim of controlling its territory in eastern Afghanistan. The Haqqanis use Pakistani towns to plan, train and arm themselves with guns and explosives, cross into Afghanistan to attack NATO and Afghan forces, then retreat back across the border to safety.

The latest round of debate over whether to launch clandestine special operations raids into Pakistan against the Haqqanis came after the June 1 car bombing of Forward Operating Base Salerno in eastern Afghanistan that injured up to 100 U.S. and Afghan soldiers, according to three current and two former U.S. officials who were briefed on the discussions. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to describe the still-evolving debates.

The officials told the AP that recent discussions of clandestine ground attacks have included Gen. John Allen, the senior U.S. commander in Afghanistan, as well as top CIA and special operations officials.

Allen’s spokesman, Navy Cmdr. Brook DeWalt, said Allen “has not and does not intend to push for a cross-border operation.”

The White House and the CIA declined to comment for this story.

Pentagon spokesman George Little said the U.S. was still focused on U.S.-Pakistan cooperation.

“The key is to work together with Pakistan to find ways of fighting terrorists who threaten both the United States and Pakistan, including along the Afghan-Pakistan border, where extremists continue to plot attacks against coalition forces and innocent civilians,” he said.

The U.S. relationship with Pakistan is arguably at its lowest point over the continuation of drone strikes to hit terror targets in Pakistan, the successful Navy SEAL raid in Pakistan to kill Usama bin Laden that was carried out without a heads-up to the country’s leaders and the U.S. refusal to apologize for a border skirmish in which the U.S. mistakenly killed 24 Pakistani troops. On Thursday, the State Department’s inspector general accused the Pakistani government of harassing U.S. Embassy personnel.

Pakistan has done little in response to repeated U.S. requests for a crackdown on the Haqqanis, and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta surprisingly voiced that frustration in a visit to Kabul this month.

He said the U.S. was “reaching the limits” of its patience with Pakistan’s failure to tackle the tribe’s safe havens. He added that the U.S. was “extraordinarily dissatisfied with the effect that Pakistan has had on the Haqqanis.” He also made fun of Pakistan’s ignorance over the bin Laden raid at a speech in India, Pakistan’s archrival.

Pakistan’s army has attacked militant strongholds across the tribal areas, except for North Waziristan, where the Haqqanis hold sway and shelter both Al Qaeda and Taliban militants. Pakistani officials say that they intend to hit North Waziristan but that their army is too overstretched to move as fast as the U.S. demands.

Pakistani officials have conceded privately, however, that they have been reluctant to take on the powerful tribe for fear of retaliatory strikes.

To make up for Pakistan’s inaction, the CIA’s covert drone program has targeted Haqqani leaders, safe houses, bomb factories and training camps inside Pakistan, and special operations raids have hit Haqqani targets on the Afghan side of the border, but that has failed to stop Haqqani attacks on U.S. and Afghan troops and civilian targets.

The officials say Allen expressed frustration that militants would attack and then flee across the border in Pakistan, immediately taking shelter in urban areas where attacking them by missile fire could kill civilians.

The officials say options that have been prepared for President Barack Obama’s review included raids that could be carried out by U.S. special operations forces together with Afghan commandos, ranging from air assaults that drop raiders deep inside the tribal areas to hit top leaders to shorter dashes only a few miles into Pakistan territory.

The shorter raids would not necessarily be covert, as they could be carried out following the U.S. military principle known as “hot pursuit” that military officials say entitles their forces to pursue a target that attacks them in Afghanistan up to 6.2 miles inside a neighboring country’s territory.

The U.S. has staged two major raids and other minor forays into Pakistan’s tribal territory before during the George W. Bush administration; the most contentious was in September 2008 when Navy SEALs raided an Al Qaeda compound. The operators killed their target, but the ensuing firefight triggered a diplomatic storm with Pakistan.

Rather than fly in, which U.S. military planners at the time feared would alert the Pakistanis, the SEALs marched across the mountainous border, arriving later than planned because of the harsh terrain and just as the fighters were waking for morning prayers, according to one current and one former U.S. official. They spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the clandestine operation.

Everyone inside the targeted compound opened fire on the SEALs, including the women, one of whom lightly wounded one of the American operators. The firefight also woke the entire village, which joined in the battle, so the SEALs had to call for strafing runs by Black Hawk helicopters to beat them back.

At least one woman and one child were among the many dead.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

The Pakistan Army may not do anything if the US attacks. But there is no way in hell they would tolerate Afghanistan being part of this. If this does happen the Army will fight back.

And this is fox news. Hardly credible.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Yeah very much doubt the might of America in an actual serious fight with even a 2nd rate army on the ground.

Fact is the US and its allies still havent met any serious opposition in thier rampages across the Middle East. Besides even in its currently weakend state the nation of Pakistan might be, politicaly speaking a failed state, but its millitary is one of the strongest in the region.

In armaments Pakistan is much stronger than anything America has faced in the last 50 years and numbers are not exactly small either... one dares to go so far as to say that perhaps any full scale invasion on Pakistan might be utterly dreadfull in terms of casualties for both sides, it might also prove to be the universall uniting factor for Pakistani's and help forge a true identity.

Some may scoff at Pakistans army but its technologically superior to all the opposition that Nato has ever faced including the old USSR becuase technology has moved on a lot and while the USA boasts superior weaponry that has not helped it win any major ground offensives and its a wonder that nobody has realised this serious weakness and capitalised it.

One hopes the millitary in Pakistan does not simply roll over like pathetic spineless cowards have done across the region. A heart and mind are still superior weapons on the field, and surpass the strategic capabilities of any weapons.

Wars are won and lost with hearts and minds and if they people and the army truly resist to the end then no power can overcome them. Even a Century of occupation will ultimately fail if the people refuse to submit.

While Pakistan is no superpower it is in the way nations handle crisis that determines how great they become. Its easy to foresee if the US and its allies make even one mistake, the whole tables will be turned and Pakistan could potentially come out stronger than it was before the conflict.

Likewise it could be a complete disaster for Pakistan and the nation could be sent to the Stone age.

It all depends on how those at the highest and lowest levels of society react, War is utterly terrible and there are so many factors that can change the picture.

Which is why one prays that such a thing never happens becuase there may be something to gain but its out-wieghed by the sheer cost of man power and resources.

Modern warfare offers man nothing and takes away so much.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Let them first win against militants in Afghanistan (especially Eastern Afghanistan). As far as spreading the war into Pakistan is concerned, that would be a repeat of Vietnam war in which US and Vietnam attacked Cambodia at the fag end of the war. Therefore it wont be anything new, but that also means that US has lost in Afghanistan. Every other day these days very bold attacks are taking place in Afghanistan.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

The US military constantly lies about its casualty numbers. They don't release all of them to the public and considering the country is so large and the population so diverse there is no way for an accurate gauging from the US end. Supposedly the deadly attack in Kunar last month had Taliban running around inside the FOB and shoot up the place for hours.

Also the insurgent commander credited for bringing Nuristan under the control of the Taliban is now in Khost. That is according to the AFPAK Channel. That is why there have been so many deadly attacks in Khost in the past 2 months.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

^ there have been at least two high profile attacks in Khost, one on their base and one against their convoy. And today there was another in some Kabul Hotel.

Taliban kill 18 Afghans in Khost suicide attack - Threat Matrix

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Which hotel? Time to e-mail and call up friends to see if they are okay!

Edit: No go area for us. Thankfully. But that is messed up.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Khost was always deadly for the Soviets too, some people never learn.

I would not go as far as to compare Pakistan to situation to Vietnam, that analysis better suits Kashmir from a Pakistan point of view and those who study the conflict in Pakistan might take heart from the lessons there.

I agree the US does hide a lot of figures but the Taliban are not really a rated army either. The Taliban and insugent groups across the Middle East, are perhaps the finest irregular guerillas on Earth, perhaps not as organised as those in South America but they have much more combat experience and versatility.

However from my own observations and countless studies non of these insurgent groups is tactically superior or in any way motivated by a singular cause or united under a single field commander. The situation is essential a bunch of groups facing the US for various motives some of them are ideologically commited "Bearded fanatics" but some are as Capitalist in thier mind-set as the most Neo Conservative Americans.

What the US and its alllies have yet to face is a rated millitary force led by field commanders with a unified or concentrated plan, all it would take to decisively halt the entire US efforts and potentially ruin the US millitary for a very long time would be a singlular commited force who are well versed in thier strategy and who have sufficently husband resources which can be concentrated and utilated to thier full potential.

If a single field commander with a plan set out to hold down the entire Nato effort in Afghanistan it could be achieved within 6 months so long as the field troops had sufficient weapons to do the job. Replace the Taliban with Proffesional soldiers or gather the Taliban under one commander who fights a "dedicated and unified" campaign. Arm them with Rpg 29 Vampirs instead of RPG 7's and give the regular troops a ratio of 1 field light field gun or a 120mm medium mortar for every 10 men.
You would have a force that could easily nuetralise the very best of the US armour, since the Taliban allready deploy tank hunter squads and some of them are well versed in that art, the betyter equipment would be capable of changing the entire ground situation over night.

Now if we add on some elements of mobility and perhaps the old Chiukov tactic of hugging the enemy at close quarters to neutralise air superiority then Nato would be on its knees crying for mercy. Now if Pakistan sustained the blockade of supplies it would be game over and non of this has required anything more than what is allready available.

If Pakistan did enter the war its air defences and Air arm would potentially be the number one factor to winning, sufficently utlising this tool and if not winning then forcing a stalemate situation in the skies would seal the fate of the war on the ground. Nato firepower would be nuetralised and realisticaly speaking the best thing would be immediate peace talks.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/world/asia/26-die-as-afghan-forces-fight-taliban-at-hotel.html?_r=1&hp

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

The fact that these 'secret' operations are being talked about in the media speaks volumes about its authenticity. At best, it is a pressure tactic by the US, sort of a threat to Pakistan to reopen the NATO routes.....nothing to do with Haqqani. Common sense dictates that if the US has enough intelligence and firepower to be able to use remote drones to target these folks deep inside Pakistan, they should be able to target them within Afghanistan much more easily, as they are on the ground over there. America needs to stop covering up its failures by blaming Pakistan.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

and as usual, US blames Pakistan for the recent Kabul attacks!

instead of admitting their failures and incompetence, they are accusing us, that too without any proofs!

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

So immature.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

The US is too used to getting its way without evidence, theres still yet to be any conclusive evidence provided to back up the offical 9/11 story that started all this mania.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

From a US point of view its highly coutner productive if the US leadership does not sufficeintly riegn in the fools in the Pentagon things will be too late. Some generals can be like real war hawks, but even the fastest hawk can become wrekcless and one day take on something a bit too big or worse stumble into a full sized eagle.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

"Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan has realized major successes with the vital assistance of neighbouring Pakistan. The outcomes of U.S. policies toward Pakistan since 9/11, while not devoid of meaningful successes, have neither neutralized anti-Western militants and reduced religious extremism in that country, nor have they contributed sufficiently to the stabilization of neighbouring Afghanistan. Many observers thus urge a broad re-evaluation of such policies", says a report by the US Congressional Research Service.

Clearly, Pakistan has assisted and clearly, their own policies have failed. Now that's something you don't get to hear on Fox News. Retards, all of em!

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

I think they should realise that threats will not get them anywhere. There is a limit to the patience of the Pakistani nation. There is only so much pressure and humiliation you can put on a country before it backfires on you.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

[quote]
If Pakistan did enter the war its air defences and Air arm would potentially be the number one factor to winning, sufficently utlising this tool and if not winning then forcing a stalemate situation in the skies would seal the fate of the war on the ground. Nato firepower would be nuetralised and realisticaly speaking the best thing would be immediate peace talks.
[/quote]

The same military that didn't know stealth drones were flying over abbottabad? Granted, the iraqi armed forces were below their peak in 1987-88, when they are alleged to have better weapons than france itself, but look at what US could do to iraq in 1991. I know that a lot of their aircraft fled instead of fight the US, but you need to look up some old videos of the rain of cruise missiles and dumb bombs (PCMs today are more accurate) that made the night in baghdad look like day while you see few streaks (AA, sams) from the iraqi defences going up to counter that.

This will continue on as it is as in an all out war situation that you are mentioning, since it would be PA that could actually field command the brain dead taliban, the US would just send hundreds of cruise missiles followed by PGM strikes by stealth aircraft and hornets and eagles to neutralize any such threats. The only threat Pakistan can muster is of a nuclear strike, but do you think pakistan has the will to take out US military bases in the middle east which would also result in the death of many arab "bhais"?

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Lol at the notion and aspirations.

That's really all any logic-driven person can do is just 'lawlz' at it.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

US, Pakistan heading towards collision | DAWN.COM

WASHINGTON: The US-Pakistan relationship appeared to be heading towards a head-on collision as an American general blamed Friday’s deadly attack on a Kabul hotel on Fata-based militants and the White House vowed to take the steps needed to mitigate this threat.

Earlier on Friday, the US media reported that Washington had considered launching retaliatory attacks at terrorist targets inside Fata but concerns about destabilising Pakistan prevented it from doing so.

“We’ll take steps necessary to mitigate that threat,” said a White House official, while commenting on AP report.

Asked if the White House could send US soldiers across the border to chase down those militants, White House Principal Deputy Press Secretary Josh Earnest said: “I won’t preview the kinds of things that are being discussed, and frankly, whether or not they’re even being discussed by the administration.”

But, he said, he could share with the reporters that “this threat is something that we have talked about quite extensively both publicly and privately.”

The White House official pointed out that the US had raised this issue with the Pakistanis and remained committed to finding ways to work with them to combat the threat that these groups posed both to US forces and innocent Pakistani civilians.

Earlier, the commander of Nato forces in Afghanistan said that the deadly attack on the Kabul hotel bore the signature of the
Haqqani group which he said continued to operate from Pakistan.

Commenting on the statement, State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland told reporters in Washington that the United States had been pushing Pakistan for a long time to ‘squeeze’ this terrorist outfit.

Also on Friday, Defence Secretary Leon Panetta indicated that the US was not going to accept Pakistan’s demand for an apology over the Salala incident, which caused Islamabad to block Nato supply routes to Afghanistan.

Pakistan is unwilling to reopen the routes without an apology.

Asked whether he would oppose any further apology, Mr Panetta told the Reuters news agency: “We’ve made clear what our position is, and I think it’s time to move on.”

He added: “If we keep going back to the past, if we keep beating up each other based on past differences, we’ll never get anywhere.”

But the most detailed analysis of US-Pakistan relations came in a televised discussion between Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and one of her predecessors, James A. Baker.

Secretary Baker noted that the relationship was in a ‘terrible’ shape, adding that this was “really sad, because for the duration of the Cold War they were our ally, and India was the ally of the Soviet Union, and now all of that is changed”.

Mr Baker disagreed with those who suggested severing ties to Pakistan.

“I think we need to maintain a relationship with them because they’re a nuclear power and because it’s really important that we not see nuclear conflagration in the subcontinent. And we don’t want to see any more proliferation than we’ve seen from Pakistan,” he said.

He suggested cutting off US aid to Pakistan to “get their attention” while maintaining a relationship with them.

Secretary Clinton observed that America’s relationship with Pakistan has been challenging for a long time.

“Some of it is of our own making,” she said, adding that she believed the US should have been more concerned about “what was going to happen to the Pakistanis” after the Soviet withdrawal from Pakistan.

“First of all, I completely agree it is not in our interests to cut off our relationship,” she said while explaining her approach. “It is in our interest to try to better direct and manage that relationship.”

She said there were several things that the US was now asking the Pakistanis to do: “Number one, they’ve got to do more about the safe havens inside their own country” because “the extremists have an ace in the hole. They just cross the border; they get direction and funding and fighters, and they go back across the border.”

She urged Pakistan to act against the Haqqani network as well as the LET, noting that the militants had already killed more than 30,000 Pakistanis.

“Secondly, they have to be willing to recognise that as we withdraw from Afghanistan, it is in their interest to have a strong, stable Afghan government” and they should stop “doing everything possible to try to undermine it.”

“And at the very least, they ought to stop double-dealing us,” said Secretary Baker. “Yeah, at the very least,” Secretary Clinton agreed.

“And they should release Dr Afridi,” she added.

Re: US considers launching joint US-Afghan raids in Pakistan

Yeah Whats new here!