US bombs Pakistani border patrol!

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Excerpts from the article.

I have pasted only the relevant points.

US, Pakistan agree on hot pursuit: Report

Islamabad has allowed American and allied forces to cross the Pakistan-Afghanistan border and hunt for Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists, according to a report.

Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf and US Secretary of State Colin Powell have agreed that troops will react according to the situation, but neither side will issue a statement without consulting the other, diplomatic sources in Washington told the Dawn, a Pakistani daily.

According to the newspaper, the US forces can conduct cross-border raids without making them public.

Click on the link above to get the full article.

Now, I think this is smart.

But how will the PA explain the casualties to the general public ??

Curios.

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Hmm.. Rediff quoted out above statement from DAWN. Ironically, the statement isn’t published.

Exposed!

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[quote]
Hot pursuit to continue *quietly *
[/quote]

Quitly means what? who will control the tribesmen? its all OK for Pakistan and US to say "YES" to hot persuit but these tribesmen did not said "YES" nor they will.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Insaaniat: *

Quitly means what? who will control the tribesmen? its all OK for Pakistan and US to say "YES" to hot persuit but these tribesmen did not said "YES" nor they will.
[/QUOTE]

...as report suggested it will pursuit across Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

I hope US and Pakistani troops don't mess up with Pashtun Tribes.

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[QUOTE]
Trade? You mean, trade of Cocaine to the youth of Pakistan. Raj dear, smell the coffee dude. Do you want to see **Jihad-ul-Haq Operation in Pakistan again? I don't wanna see Pakistan going back to the same road of destruction.**

PT, you know that I don't care for fundamentalist ideologies. Talibs took everthing in excess, but somertime you have to argue from the other side to prove your point. Cacaine?? surely, your confusin the Afghan resistnce of the 80s with the Taliban. The Taliban came into existance in mid-90s, while the drug epidemic in Pakistan was high in 80s and 90s, how did they contribute to it? In facts the talibs actually shut down poopy cultivation at the bhest of the UN, do a search on it or i can give numerous articles. Btw, how do you feel about the NA in power, which is actuallt involved with the Russian & C.Asian Mafias in drug production and tranport!

About trade during the Taliban era: Pakitan virtually dominated the market! from grains to technology and everything in between came from Pakistan! We had Qandahar on our telephone/power grid! To call Afghanistan you would dial extensions for Quetta. Contrast that with present, where Russia, Iran, India, CARs have taken our the predominan position in the market.

ahem Afghans don't consider **Durand Line as a border b/w Pakistan and Afghanistan, do they?**

They don't have to accept it. Heck, the Taliban didn't, however the fact that they wanted to be our friends, thought of us as brothers was good enough for me. PT, you just wait till an actual Afghan army is strong enough, look for skirmishes and attacks on our border posts. The interesting thing is that these Farsiwans want trouble with Pakistan, the Pashtuns are more or less satisfied. I think in terms of trade, ethnic affinities the Pashtuns should have free access, both sides of the Durand. In fact, to foster further goodwill we should legally make a provision allowing Pashtuns to come and go (no citizenship but rather a long term visa type card). In terms of Afghanistan, we must repair our relations with Pashtuns and any other groups wanting friendship.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
PT: RF's argument is simple, even if it wasn't the Taliban, any government in Kabul which wasn't attempting to destabilise the country, would be a good one. The Northern Allaince Ministers are no friends of Pakistan. On another note, I personally don't accept the Durand line as a real border. Pakistan and Afghanistan need a soft border, something like a free trade zone. The Durand line was a creation of the British.
[/QUOTE]

Zakk, your 100% on target. I don't hold anything against the average person of Afghanistan but the leadership of NA has got to be the collection of the worst group of humans possible. Yes, indeed I would like to see any government in Afghanistan that doesn't attempt to destabilize relations. I think the free trade zone idea is excellent. You and I both know that trade will never be stopped, so I would like to formalize it. I think something can be worked out where people have free access on both sides.

Yes the Durand was a british creation, but what wasnt? India as a collective nation was british creation, so was Pakistan. Afghanistan was a Anglo-Russian creation for their own purposes. Colonialism created most of the boundaries and so the Durand must stand. I do not want my country being broken up further. Pakhtuns in Afghanistan have many valid arguments, I concede that, but the reality is that since the 1980s it has been Pakistan + Pakhtun areas in Afghanistan move together in many terms. In the past, I recall reading articles proposing Afghan-Pak confederation, while that talk is premature, I certainly would like to see movement that way. I absolutely would not want any anti-Pakistan NA elements in a confederation, so all of these things are limited to Pashtuns. We tried broadbased government in '92 and we had our embassy attacked and ransacked, so it's time we give up the diplomatic BS, and support those who are our friends.

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Raj,

I’m not blaming Talibans for Cocaine, drug Trade in Pakistan. Drugs have never been cultivated in Pakistan. All I’m saying, Pakistan got to much involved in Afghanistan, in the end Pakistani Youth got hurt. From Pakistan-Afghanistan, drug deals are getting done for Western Countries.

Again, you brought up the question of NA. Raj, Pakistan doesn’t have to talk/make a deal with them. We need to talk on any issues, with the head of state, i.e Karzai, Pakistan’s man. :slight_smile:

Afghanistan had telephone market with Taliban era? Never heard of it.

Heard about Afghan-Islamic Press, based on Peshawar. :slight_smile:

Raj dear,

It will take years for Afghan Army to become strong. I don’t think Americans are leaving Afghan Soil for at least decade or so. :wave:

Yes, yes relations with Pashtuns will never be forgotten. On the both sides of the Durrand Line, Pakistan must never let Pashtun tribes down. I agree with you and Zakk.

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PT and other interested Guppies:

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/06/international/asia/06AFGH.html

AFGHANISTAN
Who Shot G.I.? The Answer Is Now Muddied
By CARLOTTA GALL

AGRAM, Afghanistan, Jan. 5 — The man who shot at an American patrol on the Afghan-Pakistani border a week ago, wounding one soldier, may not have been a border guard, as first reported, even though he was dressed as one, an American military spokesman said today.

The man had approached the Americans during a joint operation between the United States forces and a Pakistani border unit. When he fired, grazing one American soldier in the head, the Pakistani unit called on reinforcements to apprehend the man, an American military spokesman, Maj. Stephen Clutter, said in an interview today.

Opponents of the American operation in Afghanistan criticized the United States for dropping a bomb on the area after the attack. The Foreign Ministry finally issued a statement on Saturday saying that Secretary of State Colin L. Powell had telephoned President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan and that “both agreed that the incident of 29 Dec. may have occurred due to some misunderstanding at the operational level on the ground.”

“They reiterated the need to further strengthen coordination to ensure that such incidents do not happen in future,” the statement said.

The attacker appears to have made use of the joint operation to get near the American forces. As the border guard unit was preparing to blow up some unexploded ordinance, the man approached the American soldiers. Told to move back across the border, he walked back about 15 paces, then crouched and fired, Major Clutter said.

The man took cover in a building and firing continued from there, Major Clutter said. When it became clear that the reinforcements the Pakistani unit had called might not arrive in time to apprehend the man, the American forces called for a plane to drop a bomb.

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Again, you brought up the question of NA. Raj, Pakistan doesn’t have to talk/make a deal with them. We need to talk on any issues, with the head of state, i.e Karzai, Pakistan’s man. :slight_smile:

I really hope that your right because, the way things look on the ground, it seems like Karzai is being controlled by NA. PT, even in the NA we can make inroads…like the Hazaras, the Uzbeks. I think the Tajik faction (which is strongest in NA) are our main enemies. I hope that Afghanistan suceeds with Karzai leading way.

**Afghanistan had telephone market with Taliban era? Never heard of it. **

Yes they did. We were providing their basic infustructure and services.

**It will take years for Afghan Army to become strong. I don’t think Americans are leaving Afghan Soil for at least decade or so. **

Perhaps that will be the case, only time will tell. My bottom line is that we should NEVER EVER has to deal with two enemy fronts EVER. Hell, if NA does a turn around and becomes our friends, I’d be suspicous at first but eventually would accept them as well.

Yes, yes relations with Pashtuns will never be forgotten. On the both sides of the Durrand Line, Pakistan must never let Pashtun tribes down. I agree with you and Zakk.

:k: totally agree. We are the only country in the world that has Pashtuns besides Afghanistan, we must ensure that their interests are safeguarded. Also, since they are the majority in Afghanistan, a real possibility of friendly relations could emerge.

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*The man who shot at an American patrol on the Afghan-Pakistani border a week ago, wounding one soldier, may not have been a border guard, as first reported, even though he was dressed as one, an American military spokesman said today. *

...which takes you back to my second post of this thread.

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Tajik faction? Strong enemy of Pakistan? How did it come about? From Tajikistan? That might be a good guess, I think. With Tajikistan our relations aren’t bad. Same goes to Uzbekistan.

Raj,

When US planned to attack Talibans and Al-Qaieda fugitives, it was clear NA will try to come in power. Infact, that happened when NA dudes rode to Kabul with cars, trucks, :hehe: donkeys.

If keeping NA[one ethinicity] was the case, then there wouldn’t be Boon Conference[Nov, 2001] in Germany to elect a representative of Afghanistan. Based on what Pakistan said, it happened. Different Ethinic Govt. came in power. Karzai got elected. Admit, there are some Afghanies who don’t like Pakistan, but we have to talk to the person, who’s the head of the state, i.e Karzai. Btw, Karzai has got Uncle Sam’s body gurads, which brings us back to the same point, where Pakistan agrees, US agrees, because both Pakistan and the United States wants, things in Afghanistan favorable. How can you keep that? By keeping your Man[Karzai] in power.

Did you know Afghanistan was going to be divided among the ethinicties, and it was Pakistan, who came forward, rejected the idea, because it will simply create the same of mess bloody fight among ethinicities.

Pakistan still do now.

Raj, with that kind of turn around, Pakistan is aware of it. Don’t you see that coming from the Eastern border of Pakistan once in a week.? :hehe:

Ditto!

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**
[/QUOTE]
Tajik faction? Strong enemy of Pakistan? How did it come about? From Tajikistan? That might be a good guess, I think. With Tajikistan our relations aren’t bad. Same goes to Uzbekistan.

Oh yara, my apologies, I shouldve been clearer. No the Tajik faction isn’t from Tajikistan, I mean back in history their forefathers migrated to what is now Afghanistan. For our purposes, the Farsiwans or rather more approriately the Dariwans are in Afghanistan. Their leader was Masood, based in Panjshir valley. Now their lead by jokers like Abdullah, Fahim etc.

They have always hated Pakistan and loved India, from the begining. I know I have used strong words for them, but it is due to their actions. When the Russians came, it was the Pashtuns who fought them (to be fair others were also part of it), while Tajiks either fled to Pakistan/Iran eventually to the west or cooperated with the Commies. Masood aka “The Loin of Panjshir” actively collaboarated with the Soviets, and he’s a hero? Pashtuns fought and died for Affghanistan, its a tragic tale really. Ask any Pashtun and they will tell you that Afghan= Pakhtun/Pashtun. PT, I assume you haven’t had much exposure to Afghanis (and I’m using the term to include everyone), Pashtuns etc., you will see the difference once you get to talk to them. Are you in Cali? Drop by Fremont sometime, get talking and then you’ll know who our true enemies are.

When US planned to attack Talibans and Al-Qaieda fugitives, it was clear NA will try to come in power. Infact, that happened when NA dudes rode to Kabul with cars, trucks, :hehe: donkeys.

I know! I was hoping, praying for the Pashtuns to have a force ready after the fall of Taliban. I think the donkeys should be riding the NA dudes :slight_smile: Did you know that PAF flew into Kunduz, Qandhar to pluck away Pak. Military? Also the Taliban fell once our advisors left? I swear it didn’t have to come to this, they could asked OBL to leave, but I’ll say one thing: They followed both Islam and Pakhtunwali in keeping him, and I do respect that.

**If keeping NA[one ethinicity] was the case, then there wouldn’t be Boon Conference[Nov, 2001] in Germany to elect a representative of Afghanistan. Based on what Pakistan said, it happened. Different Ethinic Govt. came in power. Karzai got elected. Admit, there are some Afghanies who don’t like Pakistan, but we have to talk to the person, who’s the head of the state, i.e Karzai. Btw, Karzai has got Uncle Sam’s body gurads, which brings us back to the same point, where Pakistan agrees, US agrees, because both Pakistan and the United States wants, things in Afghanistan favorable. How can you keep that? By keeping your Man[Karzai] in power. **

First off the NA isn’t one ethnicity…the NA or better known as the United Front was a hodge-podge of Tajiks, Uzbeks, Hazaras, Turkmens who united after the Taliban took control of 95% of Afghanistan.

Secondly, I would like to see Karzai remain in power. He’s talking about good relations and even more importantly he wants to rebuild Afghan. and believe me we’ll support him everystep of the way. The problem at the moment is that there are too many anti-Pakistani forces calling the shots there, so while Karzai might want to do one thing, he is always pushed back by the others in govt.

As for Pakistan’s role in rebuilding Afghanistan, it is minimal. I think Zakk, if he is reading this, can add more to this. Previously we had discussed how the NWFP and Baluchistan business should be given contracts etc.

**Raj, with that kind of turn around, Pakistan is aware of it. Don’t you see that coming from the Eastern border of Pakistan once in a week.? **

Haha well said..I had forgotten that the NA’s puppet masters were on the Eastern front.

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Don't try to argue with PT. It will only dumb you down.

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oops sorry..one of the pitfalls of reading the 3rd page of the thread :smack:

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You just proof your point about how dumb you really are in General forum. :hehe:

RajputFury,

Thanks for your informative about Tajiks, Uzbeks.

Yes, I live in L.A, California. Never been to Fremont though. Maybe, next time with Black & Latino thugs along with me. :smiley:

**The problem at the moment is that there are too many anti-Pakistani forces calling the shots there, so while Karzai might want to do one thing, he is always pushed back by the others in govt. **

Who are these forces? NA? Let it come!

As for Pakistan’s role in rebuilding Afghanistan, it is minimal. I think Zakk, if he is reading this, can add more to this. Previously we had discussed how the NWFP and Baluchistan business should be given contracts etc.

Minimal role of Pakistan in re-buidling Afghanistan?

You’ve got to be kidding with me, Raj. There are around 3 million Afghanies living in Pakistan, mainly in Peshawar and Karachi. More to that, Gas Pipeline Project, construction of Banking system, all that, mainly handle by Pakistan. I think you might heard of Prince Sir Agha Khan. He vowed to open a Micro-Banking System for Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Yes, trade should be done from NWFP and Baluchistan by making sure of Drug dealing. I hope, CID[Crime Investigate Department] hunt these dealers down.