I was once frowned at by saying ‘paindoo’ infront of some punjabi friends, and i didnt know some people take offence..
and now i’ve heard that some urdu speaking people take offence if you say ‘muhajir’, ‘kalo’, ‘hindustani’ …but are they offensive? and why? Is ‘saying urdu speaking’ offensive?
What is the right term to address them.
yes we’re all muslims, but one needs to know so you dont offend anyone unintentially.
It’s like when you say patan and some people get offended, they would like to be called ‘pushtuns’..
um what did your friends find offensive about saying 'paindoo' ?
Personally, i find nothing offensive about the term 'urdu speaking people'. Regarding 'mohajir' - that's the term i've heard my parents use so it doesn't bother me. If that's what someone is, that's what someone is. i'm weird about these issues in that as long as someone doesn't have the intention behind their words to cause offence, then it's cool with me. Never took it any other way.
i am very blase about this issue; if someone says something with the intention/niyyat of causing offense, then i'd be more hurt. But if that's their honest way of being descriptive, that's okay. Life's too short to be over sensitive about such things :D
hmm that doesn't mean there aren't some words that are definitely discluded from my vocabulary like the 'n' word. i would NEVER EVER be okay with any of my Pakistani friends saying that to describe someone else.
actually it depends on where the muhajir u r talking of is located. karachi-settled muhajirs proudly like to be called muhajirs and will go to any length to calirfy they are so, if u by any chance get mistaken. elsewhere, they like to say in the highly patriotic and smug strain "we are pakistanis. dont care abt nay other distinction"
I guess to further answer your question(as ghulail has already given a good answer)....
Urdu speakings/Muhajirs/Hindustanis are the terms that were specigically reserved for the people living in Karachi...as mainly 80-85% population of Karachi(being the first capital of pakistan) was made up of the people that migrated from India(mainly UP/CP,Dehli,Bihar,Hyderabad,Bombay,Gujrat & Bengal)...But now as they have alraedy lived there(in Karachi)for more then half a century(almost all of their lives)...Karachi Muhahirs have escaped from the terminology of Urdu speakings/Muhajirs/Hindustanis etc ... & are now usually referred to as "Karachiites"..(Their older generations,the generation that first came to Pakistan in late 1940's were indeed under the target of being mentiond as Hisdustanis or Muhajirs)....
Now a significant number of Muhajirs live in Punjab,Islamabad(Capital Teritory) & Interior Sind(Hyderabad,Mirpur khas,Nawabshah & Sukkur)...These people(except for the ones in Hyderabad to a certain extent) are in a dilemma of identifying themselves to a certain ethnic group(although they did migrated from above mentioned areas of India & most of them did initially settled in either Karachi or Lahore,but later on due to internal migrations they did get scattered in different areas of Pakistan).....
Now these ppl do not want to identify themselves to a particular ethnic group of the area they are living in like either Punjabis or Sindhis & sometimes do refer to themselves as "Urdu Speakings"(But ususally not Muhajirs,as also people from East Indian punjab are muhajirs in Pakistani Punjab)....In order to segraegate/differentiate themselves from the people living in Punjab/Interior Sind etc...
So my advice from next time...if you are having a conversation with anyone (who is a muhajir/urdu speaking etc)...do ask them to which city in Pakistan they belong to....Those living in Karcahi wouldn't mind calling them Karachiites...& those living in Punjab(or other areas) would be quite mild if you call them Urdu Speakings...But calling them by their City name(where ever they are living) would earn you more marks...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Goliko: *
I guess to further answer your question(as ghulail has already given a good answer)....
Urdu speakings/Muhajirs/Hindustanis are the terms that were specigically reserved for the people living in Karachi...as mainly 80-85% population of Karachi(being the first capital of pakistan) was made up of the people that migrated from India(mainly UP/CP,Dehli,Bihar,Hyderabad,Bombay,Gujrat & Bengal)...But now as they have alraedy lived there(in Karachi)for more then half a century(almost all of their lives)...Karachi Muhahirs have escaped from the terminology of Urdu speakings/Muhajirs/Hindustanis etc ... & are now usually referred to as "Karachiites"..(Their older generations,the generation that first came to Pakistan in late 1940's were indeed under the target of being mentiond as Hisdustanis or Muhajirs)....
Now a significant number of Muhajirs live in Punjab,Islamabad(Capital Teritory) & Interior Sind(Hyderabad,Mirpur khas,Nawabshah & Sukkur)...These people(except for the ones in Hyderabad to a certain extent) are in a dilemma of identifying themselves to a certain ethnic group(although they did migrated from above mentioned areas of India & most of them did initially settled in either Karachi or Lahore,but later on due to internal migrations they did get scattered in different areas of Pakistan).....
Now these ppl do not want to identify themselves to a particular ethnic group of the area they are living in like either Punjabis or Sindhis & sometimes do refer to themselves as "Urdu Speakings"(But ususally not Muhajirs,as also people from East Indian punjab are muhajirs in Pakistani Punjab)....In order to segraegate/differentiate themselves from the people living in Punjab/Interior Sind etc...
So my advice from next time...if you are having a conversation with anyone (who is a muhajir/urdu speaking etc)...do ask them to which city in Pakistan they belong to....Those living in Karcahi wouldn't mind calling them Karachiites...& those living in Punjab(or other areas) would be quite mild if you call them Urdu Speakings...But calling them by their City name(where ever they are living) would earn you more marks...
[/QUOTE]
Its like you have to be black to call another black person a nigger. Chris Rock can do it all he wants but you never see Jerry Sienfeld ever saying it do you?
My parents refer to urdu-speaking people as mohajir without any bad intention whatsoever behind the description. Likewise, we are Punjabi. Now as far as the question of "paindu-ness" arises, paindus can be found anywhere among Pakistanis. I don't think the term is limited to someone of a singular Pakistani ethnicity; it's more the behavior and upbringing that render someone a paindu, or of a village mentality.
It is just another form of dividing a population along non-existent lines. If you are Punjabi or a Mohajir, how does that change your moral compass or your views in life? Shakespeare said it best:
[quote]
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other word would smell as sweet."
[/quote]
So what if you are Sindhi or Balochi? Regardless of your ethnic "name" you are still the same person. If you change your ethnicity does it have any effect on the person you are today?
I hardly ever use the word 'paindoo' when around Punajbis. They seem to find it very offensive. In fact, this one girl started crying. Ever since then I've been very careful.
mahojar means refugee...ok my parents' parents did that ok...why should that still define my abcd butt now? my folks were from karachi, that's good enough. i don't care how they got there...whatever got them to here and me to arrive and where i establish myself here is all that should matter. cant we all just be brown? now i have folks tellin me i'm not really asian...i'm friggin south asian subcontinent as if i'm a subcaste or a subway sub or something..omg!
I will definately not like it if someone calls me Mohajir....i am the third generation...even both my parents were born in Pakistan (Karachi). When i went to Karachi 2 years ago, heck i was so shocked to see the multiculturism in Karachi. Its not easy to find just 100% mohajir person anymore...everyone is all just mixed up Punjabi, pathan, sindhis and afghanis..and interacial marriages is very common.
^ all this stuff about i am not muhajir anymore, this generally comes from kids who never lived much in karachi or in any other city of pakistan apart from there. its a truly karachi-centric view, to try and talk about its multi-culturalism and downplay the muhajir element. bachoan islamabad aur lahore may jaa kay daikhoa, toa tumhay pata chalay ga what makes karachi karachi.
in fact you have pretyy much spelled it out yourself. u yourself say, u wont find 100% muhajir there. sweetheart, even a 40% of any population can be a defining feature of its place, and u just trying to prove it aint 100%.
and as for abroad-settled pakis calling themselves sub-continental and stuff, thats pretty easy to explain. if you haven't had to merge with the pakistani identity that much by being in pakistan, how on earth
will you want to let go ofyour south asian one.
actually the whole idea of being a muhajir in pakistan, for all those who dont really understand whats it about, is to say the least about being no one else. that is, if you aint punjabi,sindhi, balochi, pathan, then you got to be muhajir or plain karachiite.
another reason that most of the average abcds wont know, is that the muhajr population in karachi is not a joke of a community. it represented the bigger segment of the highly prosperous Indian business community that established pakistan. these are the people, who made karachi responsible for 70% of the whole value-addition thats done today in pakistan, as agaisnt the myth that karach is just another city, and the 'refugees' left behind everything they had.
so my dear, when you hear yr parents being proud of their muhajir identity, it has more to do with still belonging to one of the oldest strains of high culture in pakistan.
but this of course only true for karachi-settled urdu-speaking ppl.
hmmm.. i always wished someone would give us offsprings of mohajirs a name too since i wouldnt call myself a mohajir nor do my parents call tehmselves mohajirs either (even though my dad was born in india)... i mean there are punjabis, sindhis... etc... if someone asks us kids.. we say we are from karachi.. but ofcourse u could be a memon or bihari and still be from karachi... so normally we havta resort to we are urdu speaking... or hum delhi walay hain....grrrr.. it gets frustrating... cuz IM not from delhi.. my forefathers were
I never knew “Urdu speaking” was only used for people of Muhajir descent. Isn’t Urdu the language of every Pakistani?
As far as I’m concerned I’m Urdu speaking and from Islamabad, Pakistan.
I’m hardly going to go into detail about my ancestral village, my tribe or the Punjabi, Pashtun and Baluchi people in my family tree, neither am I going to waste my time and effort trying to preserve any of these things which at most will only have some sentimental value to a few old retards.
Taking these things seriously is just so medieval, Urdu is a nice language and Pakistan and the city where our home/house is, is enough as an identity for us.
Wake up, it’s time to put these petty caste/ethnic/tribal identities behind us. I couldn’t care less if somebody is Muhajir or Pathan, if you’re Pakistani and speak Urdu I lub you, it’s all that matters, it’s the way forward for our people not being hell bent upon promoting outdated languages which will probably be extinct in a few years time despite our trying to preserve them.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ghuLail: *
^ all this stuff about i am not muhajir anymore, this generally comes from kids who never lived much in karachi or in any other city of pakistan apart from there. its a truly karachi-centric view, to try and talk about its multi-culturalism and downplay the muhajir element. bachoan islamabad aur lahore may jaa kay daikhoa, toa tumhay pata chalay ga what makes karachi karachi.
in fact you have pretyy much spelled it out yourself. u yourself say, u wont find 100% muhajir there. sweetheart, even a 40% of any population can be a defining feature of its place, and u just trying to prove it aint 100%.
and as for abroad-settled pakis calling themselves sub-continental and stuff, thats pretty easy to explain. if you haven't had to merge with the pakistani identity that much by being in pakistan, how on earth
will you want to let go ofyour south asian one.
actually the whole idea of being a muhajir in pakistan, for all those who dont really understand whats it about, is to say the least about being no one else. that is, if you aint punjabi,sindhi, balochi, pathan, then you got to be muhajir or plain karachiite.
another reason that most of the average abcds wont know, is that the muhajr population in karachi is not a joke of a community. it represented the bigger segment of the highly prosperous Indian business community that established pakistan. these are the people, who made karachi responsible for 70% of the whole value-addition thats done today in pakistan, as agaisnt the myth that karach is just another city, and the 'refugees' left behind everything they had.
so my dear, when you hear yr parents being proud of their muhajir identity, it has more to do with still belonging to one of the oldest strains of high culture in pakistan.
but this of course only true for karachi-settled urdu-speaking ppl.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by khawateen: *
hmmm.. i always wished someone would give us offsprings of mohajirs a name too since i wouldnt call myself a mohajir nor do my parents call tehmselves mohajirs either (even though my dad was born in india)... i mean there are punjabis, sindhis... etc... if someone asks us kids.. we say we are from karachi.. but ofcourse u could be a memon or bihari and still be from karachi... so normally we havta resort to we are urdu speaking... or hum delhi walay hain....grrrr.. it gets frustrating... cuz IM not from delhi.. my forefathers were
[/QUOTE]
lol khawa, mine's the same story, dads family originally from Lucknow, but he was brought up in Lahore. I've never heard my parents use the term Mohajir, and personally I don't like it either. I much prefer 'urdu-speaking'.
