Re: Urdu (Language)
That doesn’t make any sense. The British used Urdu as an official language? The British???
Re: Urdu (Language)
If I get her argument right she might be saying that brits gave urdu the same status as persian in indian courts before that but unlike mughals who indianized, british always remained the high and mighty colonialists.
Re: Urdu (Language)
LOL. Please read history of Mughals.
Mughals were mongols. (Mughal = mongols in farsi)
Re: Urdu (Language)
yeh, but they were heavily persianized. However they were mongols in origin.
Re: Urdu (Language)
Off course many were 'persianized' then that was THE culture and pride for many!
Babar was considered lowest of mongols since he was given a task to rule over the 'dark' Indian subcontinent compared to those who ruled over China and parts of now Russia.
This broaught the greatest kingdom or Dynasty into existence.
Re: Urdu (Language)
Did you read my post before loling Mr. Mullah do piyaza? 
Oh really?! 
Funny that he is the descendent of taimur lane who was the descendent of the Great Genghis Khan!
If you read, babar didn’t initially think very highly of india..
Re: Urdu (Language)
I don’t know what you meant by oh really?!
You just agreed with what I wrote that babar or mughals were actually mongols and india was not considered a good place for him to go and rule compared to others like Qublai Khan.
Re: Urdu (Language)
Well I don't agree with what you were saying that babar was "tasked" to rule over india by some other authorities.
FIrst of all he ended up in India because of family and political problems (just like sher shah sure for example ended up exiling humayun to india). It doesn't make sense as to why a supposedly proud person like babur would accept to rule an area he didn't like given that he had a "choice".
Re: Urdu (Language)
FIrst of all he ended up in India because of family and political problems (just like sher shah sure for example ended up exiling humayun to india). It doesn't make sense as to why a supposedly proud person like babur would accept to rule an area he didn't like given that he had a "choice".
No one forced him..what my post suggested that he had not much of the choice under the circumstances.
Re: Urdu (Language)
bahut the sweet zuban hai
Re: Urdu (Language)
Ah?
Re: Urdu (Language)
Satsriakaal.
I thought i'd clarify what Indian Panjabi's are doing who happen mostly to be Sikh has nothing to do with Sikhi... drinking alcohol, bhangra, singing about sex and lust, punjabi music, having pride in being a jatt, all this has nothing to do with Sikhism.
Just incase your wondering im 16, from UK- British born, Sikh, my parents from India, i speak Punjabi, born to a jatt family- but i dont show pride in it- not that im ashamed either. And according to some Jatt is a tribe and according to some its a caste, my personal take is that its a tribe.
Im not a Pakistani so i dont think it would be relevent for me to make such a comment on this topic... but ill say my view anyway since im replying to this topic... since a brother gave me this link.
I think Punjabi should be only spoken in the areas where its relevent i.e. in the Punjab region and it should be made a official language aswell as the other languages. But i think Urdu should be taught all over Pakistan aswell as the regional languages because this will unite all Pakistani's (coz not all Pakistani's know punjabi) and it will able them to communicate with other Pakistanis and most Indians whom mostly speak Hindi. This can allow us all to move on... and just incase if some people think why would you want to communicate with Indians coz majority are Hindu... but dont forget there are 150 million Muslim brothers and sisters there too.... and its time all our communities move on as i said earlier.
And i think our common cultures such as languages... are a good way to promote good relations between all the communities.
I have read alot of comments... but obviously i can't comment on them all... since replying to this has taken me along time... when im ment to be revising for my college exams.
The comments that there is no differences between Hindus and Sikhs... this is incorrect... yes we share the same culture because of the fact that alot of Sikhs are converts from Hinduism and most of my ansestors are probably Hindu... and Sikhs and Hindu's do get along with each other as Sikhs get on with every community which is why it may appear we have no difference.
But we do have our major differences (or should say we should have)... such as in our appearances, and mainly in our beliefs.
And no, Sikhism is not a offshoot of Hinduism... as clearly as Guru Nanak said 'im not a Hindu nor a Muslim' hence neither are the followers of his teachings. And the comment about Hindu's going to Gurdwara... yes thats because some do believe in the divinity of Sikhism which ive written about in a previous post very breifly. Now if a Sikh goes to a Mandir... i dont know what to say because Sikhs are not allowed to idol worship (by the way i thought i'd add that not all Mandirs have idols in which are worshipped such as the Arya Samaji's).
And the comment about Sikhs are kind of Hindu's because the Guru's because they were born to Hindu families... is very wrong because ill give you a example: that would also mean that White converts from Christianity to Bhuddism are kind of Christians aswell because they were born to Christianity- even though they rejected them beliefs and accepted Bhuddists beliefs. Besides the other Guru's clearly said aswell they are not Hindu or Muslim aswell.. which should make it clear.
And about the comment about Sikhs and Hindu's intermarrying let me clarify that this kind of marriage takes place in every society now adays infact let me tell you one more thing to the borther or sister who said this that in my area there is a Muslim man married to a Sikh women... the women has not converted to Islam... and still practises Sikhi. And then you will also see in society today marriage between Hindus and Muslims aswell.. such as between Shah Rukh Khan and his wife (who is a Hindu).
Now because all these practises are occuring doesnt mean its acceptable to these faiths. Just like that if Hindu's have these customs to bring there first child a Sikh... what has that got to do with Sikhism?
About the comments about Sikhs also believe that the Guru's were avartars of God... this is totally incorrect... acording to Sikhism's scripture, Sikhs are only to believe in one God, who has no avartars.
Yes... there are some ''Sikhs'' who do believe in avartars... this is because they get taught the 'Hinduised version' of Sikhism in India's school's and not to forget roughly about 40% of East punjabi's are Hindu, and espcially since some Hindus are trying to bring Sikhism into the Hinduism fold they are doing things such as Hindu posters of the Guru's with the Om sign and with the Hindu Gods, now i dont blame some of these Sikhs if they get confused... about what they believe because they dont get taught Sikhism properly from the beginning as i said before believing in avartars is against Sikhism's teachings. On the other hand... there are some 'Sikhs' who do literally believe Sikhism as a sect of Hinduism (but Sikhism is not a sect of Hinduism)... so its the blame cannot put on some of these Hindu's only for all these confused Sikhs.
Now to the comment that Guru Nanak Dev Ji copied Islam's beliefs... and then some of the Guru's belitlled some of them and just chose bits and bob's. I would like to clarify that Guru Nanak Dev ji never copied anything from Islam... what Guru Nanak Dev ji said was, what he was preaching was what God told him to preach as did the rest of the Guru ji's said that. I believe that these teaching were in God's will... which is why im a Sikh... now if you believe in the authensity of Guru ji's teachings or not that's another matter... Obviously as you believe that Islam is the ultimate truth i also believe Sikhism is also the truth and now like the Quran says that God will deal with everyone on where we differ.
About the comment about search a Sikh site about Muslim... brother/ sister maybe before writing such things please try to understand why some Sikh sites have written some things about Muslims... go and search on Indian Muslim sites and go and find out about what they say about Sikhs.
Now to the comments that Sikhs hate Muslims and Islam and have been Islam's enimies:
To the paaji or penji who said this let me tell you this is totally incorrect now ill give you some examples:
If Sikhs and Sikhism's enimies were Islam and hated Islam... why did the 6th Guru build a Mosque for the Muslims (who needed it in the area)? And even more so this was converted to a Gurdwara after '47- since them Muslims went to W.P... and when the Muslims asked for it back... the Sikhs gave it back happily... if Sikhs hated Muslims why would they gave this building back to them even though its got so much significance for us Sikhs since it was built by our Guru?
Now if the Sikhs were the enemy of Islam... why did the Sikhs look after the 8th shia imam's shrine and hand it over to the Muslims (this was couple of weeks ago)... and now the Shia Muslim community want to get permission for the Sikhs to get a Sikh shrine in Iraq where Guru Ji went as a sign of how much they were humbled... isnt that what Sikhism and Islam is all about... respect for each others faiths, and love... ? and this personally humbled me and i dont know your views about this happening.
Now if you search more you will also uncover more Islamic shrines, which were shrines of Muslim Sufis pirs etc that were looked after by Sikhs and even Hindu's etc. Now is the sign of hate that you were talking about?
Now comes the comments about the Sikhs and Hindus slaughtering Muslims in East Punjab after partition... im really gobsmacked at this comment. This is because of the fact that the brother or sister or had written this had totally ignored the other side of the story. ALL of our communities were in the wrong at the time... which is understandable.
Now if you look at the other side of the story... if im not mistaken pre 1947 there were 2 million Sikhs in the Pakistan side and what happened to all of them? Sikhs sisters were raped, and Sikhs were tortured, became working slaves or forced to convert to Islam wether forciblely or due to circumstances and Sikhs were beheaded even little cute kids... or were forced to move to the other side of the border and along with Hindus. And if anyone saw a documentry on Merra Syal... then some of the tortures that Sikhs went through will come clearer... Sikhs even lil kids were getting harrased by Muslims kids in W. Punjab.
Now im sure all this happened in East Panjab aswell to Muslim sisters and brothers... but dont just say Muslims went through this only... because all of our communities went through through this. This was because of rumours spreading which fueled hatred.
And i'd get one thing across that while all this was happening... Sikhs and Hindu's were helping Muslim women as there sisters and dropped them to camps so they can reach Pakistan safely. And they risked there life by defending them... and it was also the same on the other side Muslims treating Sikhs and Hindus as there sisters dropping them off to camp so they can reach India safely... now i dont know why everyone focuses on the hate of the time (which was immense) but no one even mentions about the love between these communities? i think its time to move on from hate... and learn from our history.
About the comments about Sikhs taking sides of the Hindus... this is totally incorrect... since this is against Sikhi principles... Sikhs are to judge individual people's DEEDS and not there CREED.
And if your wondering why the heck Sikhs went to Hindu India then... that is because of the fact that in 1946 a conference was held in England... about the future of India... the Sikhs said they want India to be united... BUT... if India is divided then they want there own country. Now what happened after was summet like someone (i cant remember who) said that Sikhs should stay part of India... and there will be no problem if Sikhs would like to set up there own country in the future... and now obviously when Sikhs asked for there own country... Sikhs were betrayed... and they said that do you really think we will hand authority to the enimies... and said they would rather slaughter all the Sikhs to keep India united... which they did sluaghter Sikhs, but im not going to go into all that.
The comment about Sikhs would happily take your life... i found this very disturbing comment... because this comment is baseless... and i cant believe that someone even thinks like this about Sikhs. And killing someone is out of the question in Sikhi to start with. Also... if a Sikh couldnt realise God in all... then s/he cant see God at all. I.e. like the Quran says if i remember correctly that God created man in his image... now if we cant love God's creation i.e his people... then how can we even claim to love God? Now my above comments also go the comment that 'If Hindu's are bad, Sikhs are just as bad' and also to the comment that 'I’d rather be associated with a Hindu than a Sikh' and other comments that refer to one creed than the other.
And no not Hindu's arnt traitors... yes there were some people who were traitors who happened to be Hindu... simulary there could be people who are traitors who just happen to be Muslim or Sikh.
Basicly Sikhs dont hate Muslims or Hindus. Yes we have done bad to each other but thats coz of circumstances... and dont mean that we all done right and it was acceptable to our faiths.
Please forgive me if i said anything wrong... and dont take any comments personally
peace.
Re: Urdu (Language)
I dont agree with making panjabi the national language. I agree, that making the regional languages of Pukhto, Balochi, Sindhi, Panjabi, Khowar/Shinha, Urdu(karachi) as provincial/regional language with proper status but I do agree that something has to be done with the national language. dont get me wrong, its a nice language but it doesnt unify Pakistanis nor does it really enrich or improve our standing from a regional perspective. Some new generation Puktuns & Panjabi whove lived in Karachi all their life sometimes can only speak urdu and lose their mother tongue(& in the process their cultural/history) and end up having more in common with northern india. So something needs to be done (I dont mind Dari/Persian and think it is a natural and good choice bearing in mind, its historical/cultual significance and the fact that it doesnt patronize any group in Pakistan) Plus, in the end, its easy to acquire(we already use >60%+ of its words and can read it) AND we'll make it into a Pakistani style Dari/Persian. Cheers!
Re: Urdu (Language)
F u.
Re: Urdu (Language)
Urdu is fine, stop your utopian wet dreams, all the proper Punjabis I know speak Urdu instead, only their grandparents generation speak Punjabi. Urdu unites us as a nation, it’s best if we all speak it.
Culture and religion are different, so what if Indians speak Hindi? Pakistan’s difference with them is religious (and to some extent racial) not cultural, language and religion are separate things, besides Indian Sikhs speak Punjabi and have it as their liturgical language, a Kaafir is a Kaafir but I’d rather be associated with a Hindu than a Sikh.
Punjabi is good for bhangra but you can't just have dancing as your culture.
Just be Pakistani, don't divide ourselves.
FK' you are stating what prolly manjority of Pakistanis feel. I live in Canada and mosy if not all of Paki friends don't see need to suppress one Pakistani language over other. BTW, there are many mani Indic languages and they are all sweet to the speakers of those languages. I personally admire Urdu greatly but know that poetry in Marathi, Kannada and other Indian languages is no less sweeter. It must be the same with Pakistanii languages. You have a rich tapestry of many languages in your country. Why reduce it to one national language?
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You dumb fool, Muslims supported Nazis. Remember the Grand Mufti or Jerusalem?
Re: Urdu (Language)
A Mahajir province should be made in Pakistan for Urdu speaking people and Urdu should be confined to those areas, the rest of the provinces should have their own languages as national languages.
Punjabi should be limited to Punjab because I am more against it than I am Urdu.
Imposition of foreign cultures reeks of Kemalism, reminds me of the poor Kurds in Turkey who were declared Mountain Turks and their language banned by the goverment or the Scots, Welsh and Irish being Englishised in the name of Britain (English Imperialism).
I hate all culturally chauvinistic people who have no respect for other peoples cultures and heritages, I don’t want Urdu it as foreign to me as Gujarati, French or Bengali.
Re: Urdu (Language)
The most sensible thing they could have done...too bad, Hitler lost...