I have never actually been to Pakistan (except when I was 4 years old), so my comments and questions are based on observations I have made of the Pakistani community in the West.
I always seem to encounter these (supposedly) upper class woman who show off about how they had servants back home in Pakistan and now that they live in Canada, they have to do all of their own housework themselves (cry me a river!).
From what I gather, it is only the middle to upper class families in Pakistan who have too much money for their own good who hire servants.
My question is, why can’t these women and men get up and do their own housework? Why hire a 24-hour servant?? Is there really any need for having a servant or is it more for social status and a symbol of wealth?
If they don’t hire servants, where would these poor souls (servants, I mean) will go and earn their bread? There are not enough jobs/work to cater to the population explosion. So, consider it khidmat-e-khalq.
Well, the above is a sanitized explanation. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. :halo:
On the other hand, laziness and availibility of cheap domestic help is an almost unbeatable combination. :k:
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
If they don't hire servants, where would these poor souls (servants, I mean) will go and earn their bread? There are not enough jobs/work to cater to the population explosion. So, consider it khidmat-e-khalq.
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That's the only good thing I can think of coming out of having servants. These people must be so desperate for work that they willingly tolerate waiting on someone elses needs while their masters abuse them (in some cases).
Do they have the merit system in education in Pakistan like they do in Hong Kong? That could be one way for the lower class to move up in society and not have to be a paid slave.
Believe me there are worse vocations in Pakistan, than be a cook/chef or a driver for a family. In a way, these people are lucky that due to their skills, they are employed. And in most cases I have seen (I won't take responsibility for 100% people in Pakistan) they are treated really well.
Don't get me wrong. I have seen cases where these domestic help is treated worse than dogs, yelling at them, throwing dishes at them, deducting their salaries for minor offenses. And I have also seen, where they treat domestic help more as an extended members of the family, give them the same food as is cooked for rest of the household, buy jahez for their daughters, help them in the school fee and books for their kids, get them air tickets so they can go and visit their families in Bangladesh, sponsor them for hajj or umra, treat them with dignity, provide them TV in their rooms etc etc. And all this is on top of the monthly salary.
Well, I guess in some instances getting outside domestic labour can be beneficial for the employee. I still don't see why these women can't do their own housework though. The way they are illustrated in PTV dramas is that they are simply too lazy to get off of their backsides to do anything for themselves.
I also believe that having servants is simply an additional show of wealth for the family. It's a social status symbol.
>>I still don’t see why these women can’t do their own housework though. The way they are illustrated in PTV dramas is that they are simply too lazy to get off of their backsides to do anything for themselves.
Well, the time they will spend to make tea in the kitchen for their guests, they can spend in exchanging gossip. Really, there is no comparison.
Social status? Yeah. But I tell ya. Good help is so hard to find. If you get a good chef, you’d want to flaunt it too.
Islam allows us to have slaves even.... if we treat them well...
What's wrong with having servants?
Don't the rich people in the USA have servants too?
For example, my mother teaches in a uni during the day so we need to have servants who clean the house and cook food otherwise it will be difficult for my mom to do everything by herself, specially since being the only daughter I'm in the States...Its a need more than a social status thingie...and for many other ppl....
You need other people to help you out in life, you simply can't do everything by yourself...
In the west, everything is mechanised and convenient and quick so thats why ppl dont need servants...
Plus, its nothing unique to Pakistan as well. I guess whereever there is a big gap between the have's and havenot's we see abundance of cheap labor. I have a friend who lived in Africa for a while (I think Zambia or something) and he is constantly bragging about how he had this huge house on acres and acres and had, like 10 servants working for him. Now he lives in a 2 bed room appt here, and does his own laundary.
As said before many of these families treat their "servants" as family. They pay for their children's education. They pay for food and they even take them out for outings. In many familes - servants are treated respectively. The servant's family is also treated respectively. It is better than leaving them on the streets. And denying their children education and shelter. No?
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
I have a friend who lived in Africa for a while (I think Zambia or something) and he is constantly bragging about how he had this huge house on acres and acres and had, like 10 servants working for him. Now he lives in a 2 bed room appt here, and does his own laundary.
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haha....
on a more serious note, I don't think it is as rosy for all the servants as is being made out.
Majority of peopel treat servants well, however i have seen them being berated, yelled at and generally disrespected as well. as faisal and hskhan said, domestic workers have it pretty good compared to bonded labour in agricultural lands and slaving in factories.
as far as irem's post, I disagree. I dont think people "need" servants. its just cheap and convenient. The same family that had a cook, a guard, a general domestic servant and a driver in Pakistan, in US only has a cleaning lady.. both spouses are physicians so its not like they are less busy here than they were there. mechanized..to an extent one can buy the argument, but I know of few houses in pakistan where they dont have a wahsing machine or vaccum cleaner. no robots that can cook and clean exist as far as I know.
servants are not an upper class thing either, many middle class pakistanis have servants to, I mean it depends what is upper class and what is middle class. but tons of households in areas like fb area and nazimabad have servants, not a phenomenon limited to KDA1, bath island etc.
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*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Majority of peopel treat servants well, however i have seen them being berated, yelled at and generally disrespected as well. as faisal and hskhan said, domestic workers have it pretty good compared to bonded labour in agricultural lands and slaving in factories.
as far as irem's post, I disagree. I dont think people "need" servants. its just cheap and convenient. The same family that had a cook, a guard, a general domestic servant and a driver in Pakistan, in US only has a cleaning lady.. both spouses are physicians so its not like they are less busy here than they were there. mechanized..to an extent one can buy the argument, but I know of few houses in pakistan where they dont have a wahsing machine or vaccum cleaner. no robots that can cook and clean exist as far as I know.
servants are not an upper class thing either, many middle class pakistanis have servants to, I mean it depends what is upper class and what is middle class. but tons of households in areas like fb area and nazimabad have servants, not a phenomenon limited to KDA1, bath island etc.
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Once again I also find myself disagreeing with Irem's post. I don't think it is such a necessity to have servants. However, I myself have never had one nor would I want one. I don't know....just the idea of someone waiting on me day and night cause I'm too lazy to do things myself makes me uncomfortable.
For me, being a Pakistani who has never really been to Pakistan (that I can remember) and watching PTV seriels where servants are running around doing everything while the women sit around doing little other than shopping .... and hearing people talk about their own servants and how good they had it back in Pakistan compared to here where they have to do their own stuff .... it's just strange.
I guess this is an element of Pakistani culture that I have no desire to experience.
When I was in Pakistan we had servants at our home, which would help out my mom around the house and they were treated well. we once had this girl working for us and she was interested in reading and we taught her how to read.
The servant at my grandma's house lives there with them and belive me he is treated just like my grandma treats us, her own grand kids.
Even if this system looks weird to you i think it does alot of good to the ppl who have the servants and the servants themselves. Obviously there are good n bad ppl everywhere so there might be exceptions, but as far as i ahev seen almost all of em are treated well.
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*Originally posted by MehnazQ: *
on a more serious note, I don't think it is as rosy for all the servants as is being made out.
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A job is a job. A waiter in a restaurant in US also waits on people. He can also feel insulted. Obviously there are glaring differences. I think the primary difference is that most domestic servants in Pak, especially those who are live-in (given quarters attached the home), usually work 7 days a week. They are typically given very little holidays.
We had a guy who worked for us for 5 years. Pretty good cook, so was treated really well. Then he asked for a huge raise. Turns out he had an offer to work for a restaurant at substantially higher salary. Obviously we couldn't match the salary so we let him go. After two months, the dude came to our home, and asked to be taken back. As it happened, he didn't like the long hours, and horrible work environment at the restaurant, and wanted to work for us again.
So, it depends on how the family treats their help. If they don't treat them well, the servants will go and find something else to do. In most cases, its not exactly slave trade. Some rich families, I have seen, bring their servants from their ancestoral villages, and those people are really bound to work for their "masters" due to family loyalty and stuff like that. However, most others are free birds, and more often than not, the desi aunties will be found lamenting that their servant "bhaag gaya". :)
Once again I also find myself disagreeing with Irem's post. I don't think it is such a necessity to have servants. However, I myself have never had one nor would I want one. I don't know....just the idea of someone waiting on me day and night cause I'm too lazy to do things myself makes me uncomfortable.
For me, being a Pakistani who has never really been to Pakistan (that I can remember) and watching PTV seriels where servants are running around doing everything while the women sit around doing little other than shopping .... and hearing people talk about their own servants and how good they had it back in Pakistan compared to here where they have to do their own stuff .... it's just strange.
I guess this is an element of Pakistani culture that I have no desire to experience.
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yaar trust me in my household atleast its not like that....
there's not a moment in the day when my mother is just sitting, she is a workaholic...she can't even watch tv coz she feels she is wasting her time, she is that type....she literally works from 6 am to past midnight everyday and doesnt even have time for naps....
its just that if she can utilise her time doing something she feels more valuable and if she can afford to hire someone at home who will do the tasks of cooking and cleaning then why not....
even having servants is not a piece of cake, u have to make sure they r doing their work well....it is sometimes more effort than just doing the work yourself....
i dont think theres anything wrong with having servants as long as u treat them well....
however, i agree, being lazy and just sitting around is highly destructive...
lekin this notion that most women who have servants just sit around at home is not correct...
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*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
as far as irem's post, I disagree. I dont think people "need" servants. its just cheap and convenient. The same family that had a cook, a guard, a general domestic servant and a driver in Pakistan, in US only has a cleaning lady.. both spouses are physicians so its not like they are less busy here than they were there. mechanized..to an extent one can buy the argument, but I know of few houses in pakistan where they dont have a wahsing machine or vaccum cleaner. no robots that can cook and clean exist as far as I know.
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Fraud bhai, America kee life is totally different from Pakistan's life....
In Pakistan, your house must be cleaned every single day, fresh food must be cooked every single day, you socialise much more and with that come a million more tasks...
imagine how hard it must be for women who have other jobs outside the house to do allll this by themselves, and if they can pay to get domestic help them why not, kisi aur ko bhee rozi mil jayay gi....
even women who dont work and have huge houses, they have many responsibilities to take care of, imagine if they started cleaning the whole house by themselves, that alone would take half the day...
idhar theres dish washers, washing machines, dryers, and i have seen here the whole family pools in, even in traditional households the sons and husbands pool in, while in pak its not so....
hazaaarrr kaam hotay hayn pak mein gharon mein which are not part of life in America...
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*Originally posted by MehnazQ: *
on a more serious note, I don't think it is as rosy for all the servants as is being made out.
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...yea but you havent been to Pakistan since you were 4.
One thing that no ones mentioned is that things are done differently in Pakistan. You get raw milk from the milk man and someone has to boil it. Rice and Lantils are cleaned by hand, and untill recently didnt come in cleaned packagings. Households make their ata and make their own rotis. Houses are genrally bigger, and people are more social. Not to mention things like knitting and sewing...So its certainly more work.
another thing yara is that in pak life is more slow paced and actual WORK is much more...
for example, in my house, every single day, when we cook, we have to make it from SCRATCH...
cooking one meal takes three hours coz u have to sit there, cut the meat and vegetables, clean the rice and flour, knead it, cut the onions, tomatoes, etc etc, no using yoghurt from the market, no using frozen or premade ingredients etc etc...
over here things can be done fast....theres no concept of instant cooking in pak at all...
when the dishes r washed, each pot needs to be scrubbed and cleaned and the dishes are ten times more than here coz family size is larger...
seriously, every time i go back home i marvel at this and see how different things r done here n back home...
the whole house needs to be dusted and swept and vacuumed every single day...i have never heard of that happenning in households here...
everyday theres clothes to be starched and ironed and washed...
every day theres birds to feed and garden to be cleaned ...
etc etc...
u have a full social life and u have to maintain urselvs and ur households to keep up w/ that in pak....over here its different...
so there much more tasks that need to be taken care of in pak than here....or so i feel...
As usual who---me has brought up a good point about socializing.
In Pakistan, people socialize a huge lot more than here. Idher in the States, all the socializing is generally limited to weekends, woh bhi usually dinner party or lunch party or picnic etc. In Pakistan, saara din aana jaana laga rehta hai. People just come and visit because they had nothing else to do at their homes. Waisay hi guppein marnay. Then there are all kinds of milads, aqeeqas, tea-parties, koi bahana ho, log chalay aatay hein. At our place, raat ke dass bajay, chalein ayein gay.. ab khaana bhi khilao aur chai bhi pilao. Idher in the west, phone kiyay baghair koi nahi aata jaata. Then, the culture over there is mehmaan-nawaazi. You don't turn away a guest who came uninvited. All these things add up.
So its totally different. Good help is really a blessing in such a scenario.
If you get a good chef, you’d want to flaunt it too. 