ungreatful people of Pakistan

It irks me to no end that every useless piece of trash calling themselves somebody is now going around talking about musharaf as if musharaf is a villain. can people have such short memories?don’t they really realize that but for him there is a very real chance that pakistan could be suffering the same anarchy that has set in iraq and afganistan includinh american action.

plus he has shown guts in dealing with the crappies in lal masjid and other places,

yes it is time for him to gracefully exit, regardless of his concern that pakistan may dissolve into major internal conflicts and crisis. yes it is true that lesser men and women will end up getting powerful. but surely he realises it is not going to be repaired in one generation.

But all those people who are out there bad mouthing musharaf better pause for a minute and think - musharaf is probably a very capable and decent man put into a very difficult and indecent situation. People! you are the indecent situation. show some respect when calling for his leaving.

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

The General, turned CEO, turned President (in a General's Unifrom) - "has played his part and must now depart."(Shakespere).
Even Churchill was kicked out after the 2nd world war, in India Indra Gandhi too was kicked out soon after winning the BD war.'India shining' Vajpai's government lost miserably.

If he thinks he is indispencible(sp) - Let the Pak people decide, in fair & honest elections.

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

Tariq Khan bro,

you have said what many UK based settled Pakistanis also feel, that there must be a difference in calling names and unwelcoming a president AFTER his elected time has been more than a few years, in the US vs. in Pakistan!!

no one in politics is a saint - neither BB, nor sharifs nor Perveiz, or Mr. Khan.
to a great level, unbiased media, autonomous legal system and most essentially, students in institutes and academics must intervene and try to effectively contain the impact of a presidency being rigged of its merit, whatever that merit might be in the current situation in the country's domestic and international vested interest.

but what other options do people have? i often speculate a new generation of leaders, but we doctors in training can not be that material.
a specific degree programme for leadership ought to have been offered in Pakistan management schools for people who are destined to be good leaders for the country.

blaming army whenever it comes, for a job not done well, is ingrate.
army should in fact leave the govt and people to square away their qualms on their own, and let them have a taste of ingratitude.
or honest civil servants can stand in the up coming elections and give it a go.
whilst this is a dirty business of running a nation that is even dirtier (apathic) when it comes to realizing who is who and when given the circumstance and the greater stakes of preserving the existence of the land is alarmingly emerging as a serious concern.
The president in Pakistan, is not to be hailed - may be true, but he does not need to be reprimanded like he is being treated.

cheers!

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

That chance still exists even in presence of Musharraf, it just depends on how far AlKeyda goes in Afghanistan and FATA areas.

[quote]
plus he has shown guts in dealing with the crappies in lal masjid and other places,
[/quote]

Nawaz Sharif showed similar guts in operation cleanup in 1992 against MQM and it was not a 2-7 day operation (Disclaimer: I am no fan of NS).

[quote]
But all those people who are out there bad mouthing musharaf better pause for a minute and think - musharaf is probably a very capable and decent man put into a very difficult and indecent situation. People! you are the indecent situation. show some respect when calling for his leaving.
[/quote]

He is the one who put nation in indecent situation not the other way around, he is the one who overthrew an elected government. After overthrowing a government for "corruption" reasons what is he doing to ensure 'no-corruption' in future government besides making sure that he gets re-elected by the goons he elects in government???

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

Mr. Gen. President would you please leave and don't let door hit you on the way out. How is that? :)

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

Pakistani Nation is not ungrateful but at same time they have no traditions for saying "Thanks" if one has not delireved what he had hailed during the power.

Mushy, is now begging NS & BB to help him to stay in POWER, if NS or BB had to come back then, what good MUSHY is going to do.

In last 8 years, how many points from his agenda has been acheived?

The 6 Point agenda is dream of every patriot Pakistani, and i guess mushy has just used that dream to have a moral grounds to stay in power. no that it is clear that he has no intentins to work on his agenda, there is no moral ground for him to stay, infact he has to be prosecuted for playing with dreams and people pf Pakistan, giving them his fals image and lieing to them.

The Liars are never respected, if they are at presedential level then they are humilated as well. so what ever is happening is equal and opposite reaction of Mush's action.

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

i think you have to pretty blind not to notice how vehemently and passionately people get on the backs of politicians in pakistan. thats something to think about for the future. having said that musharraf had the support of the majority of the nation at start of 2007, all his major mistakes have come this year

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

If bending over for uncle Sam is greatness then all our leaders have done it, Ayub, Zia, BB & NS. He has just followed the pattern.

But tell me why did he start Kargil crisis?

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

And with the next alliance taking shape that is MQM and PPP this is what Pakis can expect; elaborated by none other than Cowasjee.

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/20030413.htm

**Extortionists on the prowl **By Ardeshir Cowasjee

The time frame: 1995-1996, with the second of the Benazir Bhutto PPP governments in power, and with Benazir, husband Asif Zardari, and their closet cabinet conducting their businesses from the prime ministerial mansion in Islamabad.

The monthly magazine, Newsline, in its June 1996 issue carried an article headed ‘Crash Landing?’ with the sub-heading 'The country’s premier courier service (TCS) paid 250,000 US dollars to a PPP MNA to stay in business.’

Allegedly, in June 1995 a PPP-MNA had ‘persuaded’ the prime minister to instruct her secretariat to suspend the TCS aviation services unless the company agreed to ‘pay him a substantial sum in extortion money’. This would have brought all TCS operations to a halt, but there was no option for the company but to pay up.

Newsline story’s closing paragraph reads: “What happened with the company is perhaps one small example of how the political leadership of the country is brazenly involved in extortion. Will the superior courts of the country take notice of these criminal and unlawful acts being committed under the patronage of higher authorities?”

In those days it was not only the PPP which engaged itself in the extortion game. **We also had operating in Sindh the party of the Pir of London, the MQM, freely and with impunity collecting what is known as ‘bhatta’. This practice has continued down the years whenever the MQM has been in any position of power. **

At the end of last year, President General Pervez Musharraf, in his efforts to cobble together some form of democratic government, found it expedient to make peace with the MQM and thus try to ensure that a modicum of law and order prevails in Sindh. This had the converse of a calming effect on the people of the province who are convinced that the party will turn to its old tricks of extortion and terror. **Musharraf’s governor in our province is the all-powerful Ishratul Ibad of the MQM, imported from London. Ibad’s first act in office was to promulgate on December 28, 2002, an ordinance: ‘The Sindh Eradication and Curbing the Menace of Involuntary Donation or Forced Chanda Ordinance 2002.’ Now, was this a brazen-faced admission that extortion did exist or was the governor trying to tell us that as it had never existed, it never would? **

**Dawn on December 29 2002, under the headline ‘Ordinance banning extortion promulgated,’ quoted the wording of the ordinance. Interestingly, if an extortionist is caught and then miraculously convicted he “shall be punished with simple imprisonment which may extend to three months and with fine which may extend to ten thousand rupees.” **

**And now what? The life of this ordinance came to an end on March 27, 2003, and the next day TCS was again the victim of, this time, merely an attempt at extortion. **

On the morning of Friday, March 28 two men arrived at the entrance to the TCS office premises at Block 6, PECHS. They stood, with the company security guard watching them, shouting various and colourful abuses and threats against the company and its executives, all clearly audible from within the office building.

The TCS head of corporate affairs, Ali Leghari, hearing the ‘pandemonium’ (as he puts it), went to the gate to see what it was all about and tried to calm down the two men by suggesting that they come in, come up to his office and unburden themselves. At this stage the original two were joined by two other shouter-screamers. The clamour continued while the four were being taken into the building and up to the boardroom.

Two of them were brothers, Haider Raza and Asif Raza. Haider came out with the ‘demand’, the reason for the abusive and threatening tirade. Asif, his brother, was a former TCS employee whose services had been terminated in 1996 - seven years prior to this incident. Apparently, the loss of a job had caused the family great hardship and they now ‘demanded’ that TCS pay them one million dollars within two days, failing which, with the clout they wielded, TCS would be eliminated, wiped out, vapourized.

The clout claimed was a close relationship with prime minister Zafarullah Jamali’s family, and links with the MQM - the latter proven by a visiting card with Farooq Sattar’s name printed on it and a handwritten note on the reverse addressed to Leghari: “Janab Ali Leghari/TCS. As discussed sending Capt. Asif Ali Raza, with some progress from his side on his matter. Please extend cooperation and oblige. Thank you.” With great pride, Haider announced that he was an old party stalwart, famously known as ‘Haider Commando’, and had the distinction of having trained many of the able MQM activists in the useful skill of martial arts (knee-drilling, body-bagging?).

The other two (one claiming to be a Pathan from Zhob) enforced the demand by announcing that if the money was not paid in time, all TCS operations, starting from Quetta and Peshawar downwards, would be disrupted, all offices and vehicles set on fire, the company would be defamed in the press, and the lives of the chairman, Khalid Awan, and of Leghari endangered.

This time, TCS decided to stand firm. They contacted mediamen and their friends in the army who persuaded the ISI to admit to its existence, and plans were laid to nab the extortionists. The two Raza brothers paid three subsequent visits to Leghari’s office. On one occasion Haider Commando bragged that with the help of the prime minister, he had certain requirements waved and obtained permission to set up an aviation company.

The deadline given to TCS was April 5.** On the evening of April 4, Leghari received a telephone call from a man claiming to be an MNA by the name of Haider Rizvi, who had a message to convey from Farooq Sattar - the message, do the needful for ‘Asif Sahib’. **

Leghari by this time was convinced that the entire matter was a hoax and a crude attempt at extortion. So when Haider Commando and brother arrived the next day they were told that the game was up and they should just leave immediately. Commando naturally reacted to this with further threats as to the destruction of TCS and the death of Leghari.

But the ISI had done a good job, organized things, and on their way out the MQM Rizvis were arrested and jailed, and Leghari filed an FIR (124/03) and submitted supporting documents at the Ferozabad police station in which he has recorded the above happenings.

End of story? No. Musclemen Rizvis are assets to be preserved. Two earthshaking telephone calls came from London to the Sindh home minister, Sardar Ahmad. The Voice admonished him for allowing the Rizvis to be arrested and jailed and he was told to ‘fix’ matters. What do we do, Sardar asked the governor? A magistrate was lined up to do the needful, bail of Rs.30,000 per brother was granted the next day and the Rizvis were released.

And now, amidst the mayhem, the CPLC has been rendered ineffective. Jamil Yusuf who in the past has taken on the MQM was removed in the middle of the night. (The CPLC records which incriminate many of those now in power have been destroyed. But that is another story.)

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

^Aina un ko dikhaya tu bura maaN gaye

But the context here was some people trying to sell the BS of Musharraf being some angel.

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

^ The context is (I know because I set it) that people should remember some civility instead of calling musharaf names. nothing wrong and I am all for musharaf retiring, knowing whoever follows will either be untested or tested high the rascalmeter.

the alternative is a highly divisive acrimonious perhaps violent transformation of power. musharaf has been for most parts an atypical dictator. he could have cancelled the press corps, he could have had whoever he disliked including CJ vaporized, he could have used his powers to be a what pther dictators and some non-dictatos have done in the past. But he didn't - he maintained some respect for what pakistan would have and should not have become.

I just want the peabrains to realize that

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

I appologise for my bad memory, can anyone kindly tell me (inform me) any event in 8 years in which President sahab has done "anything" in favour of / promoting Islamic teachings /way of life, or in any of his speech appreciating the words of Quran, the Prophet [saw], any Suhabi (r.a), or any religious scholar, sufi of the past. As we all know he mentioned AtaTurk to be his ideal ( regarding whom I have yet to hear anything Islamic in my 2.5 years in Turkey)

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

Have you forgotten Lal Masjid where some crooks and retards were holed in and were maligning the name of Islam? They built a place illegally and started calling it Mosque. Don’t you know that Mosque is house of Allah? What you think, is Allah corrupt and thief to have his house on illegally occupied land? Well, President Musharraf cleared the name of Allah by ordering demolishing all illegally built building in the name of Mosque. This act is ibadah and favour on Islam.

Just try to remember that there were people of Lal Masjid who were forcing people to do shirk by scaring innocent to worship them and their commands? Was it right? Just think that if I come to you and tell you to keep beard as ibadah or I will break your neck, would you be keeping beard and doing that ibadah for me (because you got scared of me) or for Allah? Is that Islam to make people worship you (and not Allah) because people start fearing you?

Musharraf is trying to stop that in Pakistan and bringing true Islam, where when people worship, they worship for Allah alone and if they do not want to, they are responsible of their own deeds.

Just think that there are many retards in Pakistan that are doing kufur act of suicide and killing innocent in the name of Islam and thus bringing disrepute to Islam. Musharraf is trying to stop these retards to harm innocent people and trying to eliminate them and send them to jahannum not by suicide but with bullets what these animals really deserve. This if he succeed would be great favour to Islam.

There are many good things Musharraf did as head of state, that is not only good for Pakistan economically but also for Islam.

[That is different matter that retarded self declared representative of Islam may not like true Islam and tolerance in Islam, as they are more interested in spreading their fitna and Satanism in the name of Islam ... but does that matter?].

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

yeah, lets call him Ameer-ul-Momineen for his services alone :dhimpak:

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

Bhaijan, only selfish people with vested interests are against President Musharaf and the good work he has done.

God Bless President Musharaf, God Bless Pakistan :jhanda:

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

if he did not, that is probably one of the best things he did for pakistan. the so called islamic teachings is what has brought all the misery and violence to pakistan. useless vermin when they fail in everything else seem to become authorities on HQ! and start giving speeches about God and Islam as if they know it and others don't.

just be glad that musharaf did not catch hold of everyone who called themselves authority of islamic teaching and castrate them or worst. because they deserved that punishment.

whi the hell are you to say he and ata turk have to prove anything to you? who cares whether you have heard anything good about them or not? anyway, what do you know about 'good'? all you religious 'people' are interested in is finding the next 14 year old to strap a bomb and a mobile phone trigger onto.

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

Not doing a crime is now the only "virtue" of the dictator. He is perfectly capable of such crimes if he could get away with. But he knows military will not support him any longer if he stoops that low.

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

**Musharaf want pakistanis to be westernized

I am not ungreatfull to musharaf
1)He single handedly bring pak society bring out of the static condition.
2)We have a free media (because of that musharaf sufferd eventually)
3)I love him for having serious back bone(kagil and stuff)

But

He wanted all of above to be musharaf's show. When things went out of control he became nasty too like any other dictator.

On down side
1)He pushed pakistani society into "fahashi"(pakistan is not musharaf house hold where he could force values)
2) he practically sold pakistan to USA
3)He capitalized on extremism to get west's attention(BB style)
**

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

Musharraf has done so much 4 pak.. Long live musharraf, i hope he stays in power inshallah :jhanda:

Re: ungreatful people of Pakistan

I have always been surprised that Pakistanis dig from the past pile of failed "leaders" when seeking a new one. You honestly can't find anyone better than Nawaz Sharif or Benazir? Maybe there is something that Benazir's husband didn't steal the first time that they can grab hold of this time around.

Musharraf may be "secular" but Pakistan is actually coming out of his reign in a better condition than the last two jokers. Do some of you honestly believe that the Lal Masjid group were anything other more than criminals?

It's early, so this won't be my most coherent post, but the phrase, "people deserve the leadership they receive" comes to mind.

As for the argument of Pakistan becoming "more Western, I remember middle class Pakistanis watching cable and being materialistic and brand conscious back in the 90s. Shalwar kameez still isn't as short as it was in the 70s. The problem is, as always, that Pakistanis choose to emulate the wrong values of the west. Appearances above substance in all things....