Ulema excuse themselves generally from providing opinions in fields they don’t have expertise like medicine, science etc and people too rightly do not seek their opinions in these things. BUT, why do people ask/accept their opinions in political issues. They have little idea of geopolitics.
Looking at every political issue as cosmic battle between Truth&Evil or God&Satan can not provide good solutions.
Re: Ulema and Political Guidance
and therefore......... ?
Re: Ulema and Political Guidance
and therefore... neem hakeem khaterae jan and neem mullah khaterae Pakistan :D:
and therefore... neem hakeem khaterae jan and neem mullah khaterae Pakistan :D:
waah waah waah...khatraae Pakistan...maza a gia janaab...
good points Icon.
Re: Ulema and Political Guidance
khatraae Pakistan... and therefore....?
Ulema excuse themselves generally from providing opinions in fields they don't have expertise like medicine, science etc and people too rightly do not seek their opinions in these things. BUT, why do people ask/accept their opinions in political issues. They have little idea of geopolitics. Looking at every political issue as cosmic battle between Truth&Evil or God&Satan can not provide good solutions.
Good observation. The problem is they are not willing to accept their incompetancy in politics and thus exploit religion to have their way and appear as if they know politics by rallying people against the politicians by declaring their actions kufr and what not.
Re: Ulema and Political Guidance
Okay, the US residents see it as a problem. Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad residents see it as a problem. What next?
Can we ever move away from enumerating our problems and talk about something that can be done about it...?
Okay, the US residents see it as a problem. Karachi, Lahore, Islamabad residents see it as a problem. What next?
Can we ever move away from enumerating our problems and talk about something that can be done about it...?
Unfortunately, for people like us living abroad ... we can only comment and give our honest opinions. Change comes from within and you know what I mean. The people of Pakistan need to change for themselves.
For a start how about everyone put in their honest amount of work and stop bribery. And see the difference it brings about. People of Pakistan need character building and compassion for each other.
Re: Ulema and Political Guidance
you know what I was thinking about the same issue few days back.
Ulema should be expert in Quran and Sunnah and not in Politics and how to make money. How could an Aalim think of such worldly issues and still be called an Aalim?
Re: Ulema and Political Guidance
I don't believe that all the non-resident Pakistanis can do is crib about situation in the country. They can do much more and if they are not contributing anything, there is no right for them to criticize the country.
Back to the topic.
Have you guys thought about Islam being not a religion but a way of life?
You can talk about ignorance of the religious leaders, their corruption and greed but I believe following Islamic guidance in politics and commerce (which the west is doing) is the best way to go. If Quran and Sunnah was supposed to be only for matters of man and God, they would not explicitly put forward (worldy) issues like inheritance, marriages and what a good leader should do and when to follow a leader and even how to drink water.
We have issues with ignorant mullah teaching crazy stuff to ignorant people, and reforms of the religious education system is the way forward. I knew a person who studied a madrassa for a while and he said that parents send their dumbest kids (who could not cope with a proper school education) to these madrassas. What can you expect from the output of these religious schools?
Re: Ulema and Political Guidance
we don't need "uleema" ... we need educated people from Colleges/Universities.. not from some narrow-minded psycho madrissahs.... because of them we are landed in this shyt hole, and we are trying to get out not with the help of Mullahs but on the slogan of "Our way of style" .. "our way of living" .. "our cultues" .. "our society, language, clothes" .. doesn't match with taliban/extremists.. .and else..
probably this is the war on the basics of religion for them.. but we are fighting to preserve our culture, society, way of living.. .
down with mullahs to hell !
Re: Ulema and Political Guidance
^ Should have at least read the opening post!
I don't believe that all the non-resident Pakistanis can do is crib about situation in the country. They can do much more and if they are not contributing anything, there is no right for them to criticize the country.
Back to the topic.
Have you guys thought about Islam being not a religion but a way of life?
You can talk about ignorance of the religious leaders, their corruption and greed but I believe following Islamic guidance in politics and commerce (which the west is doing) is the best way to go. If Quran and Sunnah was supposed to be only for matters of man and God, they would not explicitly put forward (worldy) issues like inheritance, marriages and what a good leader should do and when to follow a leader and even how to drink water.
We have issues with ignorant mullah teaching crazy stuff to ignorant people, and reforms of the religious education system is the way forward. I knew a person who studied a madrassa for a while and he said that parents send their dumbest kids (who could not cope with a proper school education) to these madrassas. What can you expect from the output of these religious schools?
I won't give any religious opinion because thats not my place. However, even if we look at Islamic history other than a handful of persons, we dot see a religious figure being an able political leader also. Similarly had we relied on logic of ulema we would not have Pakistan.
The same is true of other religions also. The problem with reform of Madrassa is that the Ulema are not willling to listen to anyone.
I don't believe that all the non-resident Pakistanis can do is crib about situation in the country. They can do much more and if they are not contributing anything, there is no right for them to criticize the country.
Back to the topic.
Have you guys thought about Islam being not a religion but a way of life?
You can talk about ignorance of the religious leaders, their corruption and greed but I believe following Islamic guidance in politics and commerce (which the west is doing) is the best way to go. If Quran and Sunnah was supposed to be only for matters of man and God, they would not explicitly put forward (worldy) issues like inheritance, marriages and what a good leader should do and when to follow a leader and even how to drink water.
We have issues with ignorant mullah teaching crazy stuff to ignorant people, and reforms of the religious education system is the way forward. I knew a person who studied a madrassa for a while and he said that parents send their dumbest kids (who could not cope with a proper school education) to these madrassas. What can you expect from the output of these religious schools?
bro I do not agreed with your first point. first of all I ( WE ) never ever think to criticize Pakistan.... but we do worry as do a normal Pakistani who living there, we cry when Pakistan crying and we feel great happiness if we heard in happy news from Pakistani nation.. and dont say either we are not contributing. hundreds thousands or millions billions Foreign Exchange ZARE MUBADALA come to Pakistan every month, by dollars, Euro, ponds, riyals Yens..... check yourself how much Pakistani Economy surviving with this money..... let put behind the ignorant for time being, what about educated or normal fellas, ??
bad damnn corruption in every feild there, no work done without bribe or SAFARISH... this is ULMAA for isnt ?? they aint hell doing nothing just eating halwe and increasing there income keep lying.... this is not criticizing bro... a pain . Islam teach us a very brielent way of life, jsut need to follow it....
back on topic
I do agreed with your 2nd point
there are two types of "ulema" - those who participate in or talk about politics and those who stay away. both types are completely useless.
the first are the intellectually bankrupt, morally repugnant, corrupt to the core types like Maulana Diesel, Qazi, etc. they're among the worst politicians in the country. these are the idiots who feel the pain of far flung places like Palestine, Afghanistan and Bosnia but close their eyes when it comes to the barbarity unleashed in Swat. especially Moulvi Diesel who to this day calls the Taliban terrorist scums "shaheed". it's funny they do all these in-camera hearings and keep the media out... because supposedly confidential stuff is being discussed like when Gen Pasha gave a briefing on the Swat situation. but dude you have the biggest traitor sitting in your midst in Moulvi Diesel. the dude is probably recording the whole thing and passing on the info directly to the Taliban scum. so, why bother keeping the media out when the biggest traitor and Taliban sympathizer is sitting in your own midst? ppl from Swat have clearly said that it was during MMA's time that dogs like Fazlullah were bred and unleashed onto the innocent ppl of Swat.
either way, I got a little off-topic... but I hate these mullah types with a passion..
the second type are the apolitical ones. the one who come on TV and preach about the need for us middle classias to be patient even in the face of most brutal injustice. they don't have a word to say about right or wrong. they don't have a word to say when the judiciary of the country is locked in their homes by a dictator. they don't have a word to say when a dictator takes over the country. when secular, hell-bound kaafir types come out and protest for rule of law and justice, these mullahs can't be bothered to come out to join the protests against massive wrongs or even say a word of support. I thought the Prophet said that if you see a wrong, try to right it. if you can't, then condemn it. do these TV/apolitical mullahs not have the decency to condemn human rights violations or violation of the constitution which sets the country ablaze? do they not feel the pain? I'm a kaafir and am hell-bound but I do feel that I have a duty to condemn and protest against any wrong in my country. but not these moulvi types. as long as they get their halwa on thursday night, all is well in their delusional little worlds.
Pakistan will only progress when religion either reforms and conforms to the needs of a modern, democratic state or if it can't be reformed because it is "divine", etc, etc, then it must take a back seat. the country and its poor can't be held hostage by religion and its corrupt practitioners.
and this madrassah nonsense must be stopped at once. don't care what mullahs have to say about it. ban them immediately. it has nothing to do with terrorism or religious dogmatism. marassas simply have to go because of the piss poor quality of "education" imparted in these forsaken places.
...... and dont say either we are not contributing. hundreds thousands or millions billions Foreign Exchange ZARE MUBADALA come to Pakistan every month, by dollars, Euro, ponds, riyals Yens..... check yourself how much Pakistani Economy surviving with this money.....
I did not say that non-resident Pakistanis are not contributing, infact as you said, they do contribute a lot. I just said that they can contribute and not feel helpless if something bad happens back home. They should not say, 'what can we do so far from the country'. Just a clarification... back to topic ;)
I won't give any religious opinion because thats not my place. However, even if we look at Islamic history other than a handful of persons, we dot see a religious figure being an able political leader also. Similarly had we relied on logic of ulema we would not have Pakistan.
The same is true of other religions also. The problem with reform of Madrassa is that the Ulema are not willling to listen to anyone.
I think things changed when we started making distinction between Political Leaders (Ameer-ul-momineen / Khalifa) and religious leaders (Qazi and Aalim). I think things should be other way around. Political leaders should have good understanding of religious principles so as to keep them in mind while making decisions instead of religious leaders making political decisions.
The problem with Madrassa reforms is that there are thousands and thousands of 'Ulema' teaching and being followed by millions of people, specially in our rural areas. What can be done? Declare all those thousands of 'ulema' criminals and their followers outcasts.... a bloody revolution? Or just bury our heads in sand and continue to believe our problems will go away?
I believe there has to be another way. I am not sure what that is.
Re: Ulema and Political Guidance
^Thats correct, a political leader aware of religious principles and of pubic's rligious sentiment is better than a religious man making political decisions.
Te other way i think is to make Madrassas more accountable to public, afterall they run on charity and its publics money. At present Madrassa management is not accountable to anyone, they do as they please. How can this be done is the question.
I don't believe that all the non-resident Pakistanis can do is crib about situation in the country. They can do much more and if they are not contributing anything, there is no right for them to criticize the country.
Back to the topic.
Have you guys thought about Islam being not a religion but a way of life?
You can talk about ignorance of the religious leaders, their corruption and greed but I believe following Islamic guidance in politics and commerce (which the west is doing) is the best way to go. If Quran and Sunnah was supposed to be only for matters of man and God, they would not explicitly put forward (worldy) issues like inheritance, marriages and what a good leader should do and when to follow a leader and even how to drink water.
We have issues with ignorant mullah teaching crazy stuff to ignorant people, and reforms of the religious education system is the way forward. I knew a person who studied a madrassa for a while and he said that parents send their dumbest kids (who could not cope with a proper school education) to these madrassas. What can you expect from the output of these religious schools?
I think you should stop taking every word as polarized. The fact is that expatriots have only been able to do crib for Pakistan whether we admit it or not. Not much we can do directly unless we go back to Pakistan and fight the system. Indirectly we can do a lot by building a strong lobby in the US which influences its policies towards Pakistan but for that Pakistani's need to be up to snuf as well. Fortune favors the prepared not the ignorant. The only we expats do is contribute financially when possible. If you other examples please enlighten us. Expats have every right to criticize. we have families there, roots and much more. Many expats are expats because they did not favor the living conditions and opportunities Pakistan provided them. So please get ur nickers out of a twist about if you don't live there then you can't criticize. Most Pakistanis over there have this problem and mental barrier. When people start living in self denial they gain more share of criticism naturally.
I do agree that we cannot segregate our religion from our lives in any sphere of life. All our dealings whether political or not should be driven by the fundamentals or principles of our belief. The separation of religion from governance of the country is saying you can be as pious as you want in your personal affairs but then when it comes to governance this is where we drawn the line, everything is fair game whether moral or immoral, conforming to religion or not, as is precisely the case in US.
Your last para reflects one piece of the reality in Pakistan.
... The same is true of other religions also. The problem with reform of Madrassa is that the Ulema are not willling to listen to anyone.
So how do you deal with people who are ignorant of their short-comings and obstinate to their defficiencies yet share the same fundamental belief (I don't mean Taliban here, there are still many non-violent yet backward religious people) as ourselves and our equal citizens of the state.