U.S.-Pakistan relations on a collision course

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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We are on dangerous path. We can’t live with or w/o the US.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/15/eveningnews/main20071393.shtml

U.S.-Pakistan relations “on a collision course”

By David Martin

The U.S.-Pakistani relationship has been going downhill ever since Navy SEALS flew in --without permission – to get Osama bin Laden.

Tuesday’s news managed to make things worse, when it was announced that Pakistan has rounded up several informants who helped the CIA find bin Laden.

CBS News correspondent David Martin reports it was the talk of Capitol Hill Wednesday.

Relations with Pakistan have gotten so bad since the raid on bin Laden’s compound, the deputy director of the CIA told a closed door hearing on Capitol Hill it’s a 3 on a scale of 10. According to Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, relations are close to the breaking point.

Linchpin in hunt for bin Laden back with al Qaeda
Gates: Arrest of informants “real world” reality
Special section: The killing of Osama bin Laden

“We’re at a crossroads with Pakistan. We’re on a collision course with Pakistan,” Graham said.

While the U.S. wants Pakistan to go after the support network which allowed bin Laden to hide in plain sight, Pakistan instead has arrested and interrogated 5 people suspected of helping the CIA pull off the raid.

It is all part of a spy versus spy game the U.S. plays with one of its most important allies, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates told Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy to get used to it.

“Based on 27 years in CIA and four and a half years in this job, most governments lie to each other. That’s the way business gets done,” Gates said.

Although CIA drone strikes against terrorist safe havens in Pakistan’s border area continue without let up, Pakistani intelligence at the same time actually protects some of the terrorist groups.

The CIA gave Pakistan the location of two compounds where the explosives smuggled across the border to kill American soldiers in Afghanistan are manufactured. Someone in Pakistani intelligence apparently alerted the terrorists who immediately emptied out the compounds.

But for all the double dealing, the chairman of the Pentagon’s Joint Chiefs of Staff says the U.S. cannot afford to turn its back on a country that has both terrorists and nuclear weapons on its soil.

“If we walk away from it, it’s my view it will be a much more dangerous place a decade from now and we’ll be back,” Adm. Mike Mullen said.

Right now, Pakistan is pushing the U.S. away. They have kicked out virtually all the Americans who were training their military.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/15/eveningnews/main20071393.shtml#ixzz1PPiWevqc

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Its about time the Pak establishment quit masocistic policy of selectively targeting militants. It doesnt work.

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^ That's right. There is no such thing as a good Taliban. There is no such thing as a good extremism.
All extremists are bad. All Taliban are extremists.

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Based on 27 years in CIA and four and a half years in this job, most governments lie to each other. That's the way business gets done," Gates said....

.........................................

well the both parties knows how they are dealing/handling each others!!
and a new pressure on ISI about arrested infromers and lets watch the new game how its gonna be finish.

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Yep US is getting ready to invade Pakistan , do carpet bombing and take over our nuclear assets. :chai: Another conspiracy theory.
Grow up people , it is all rhetoric , things will stay where they are for next 10 years as they have been for last 10 years.
Pakistani leaders will get some personal favors under the table and keep making rola from above the table.
We Pakistan as a nation are under attack from within , can we afford to have a super power as an enemy too ? For now I think that we cannot afford it.

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Re: U.S.-Pakistan relations on a collision course

The perception about Pakistan in the US media is getting worse. I read this article in Vanity Fair recently. They are angry

An excerpt from the article

*There’s absolutely no mystery to the “Why do they hate us?” question, at least as it arises in Pakistan. They hate us because they owe us, and are dependent upon us. The two main symbols of Pakistan’s pride—its army and its nuclear program—are wholly parasitic on American indulgence and patronage. But, as I wrote for Vanity Fair in late 2001, in a long report from this degraded country, that army and those nukes are intended to be reserved for war against the neighboring democracy of India. Our bought-and-paid-for pretense that they have any other true purpose has led to a rancid, resentful official hypocrisy, and to a state policy of revenge, large and petty, on the big, rich, dumb Americans who foot the bill. *

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Well this is too much of an ask for some PPL here on GS and for sure in Pakistan

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We definitely can live without US.

Thank you for admitting that, we already knew that :chai:

haathi-on ki larai mai nuqsan to kisan (khet/khalian) ko hota hay naa

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Re: U.S.-Pakistan relations on a collision course

That is a very racist view. Do all these children deserve to die? THINK. You call IK a racist but you make the same mistake when you paint everyone living in FATA with the same brush.

Not everyone living in North and South Waziristan is a talib or militant

And before even contemplating operation in North Waziristan, the government needs to have suitable makeshift arrangements in place for all the would-be displaced people

**Fears over security in North Waziristan

**The telephone in Ghaziullah Wali’s small house in Peshawar rings often as members of his extended family keep inquiring about reports of impending military operations in North Waziristan Tribal Agency.“Some of my family members want to move away,” he said. “A number have already done so over the years.” The family has been driven into a panic by media reports of a possible military operation in the area. North Waziristan is seen as a center of militancy and there has been pressure from the USA – Pakistan’s main ally in the “war on terror” – to stage an operation there, says a report by IRIN, the UN information unit.
**Pakistan military spokesman Maj-Gen Athar Abbas, however, said the armed forces were too stretched to go into North Waziristan for now. “We are engaged in many agencies at the moment,” he said.
“There are stabilisation operations; there is a consolidation phase going on. There are active operations, like in Orakzai and Kurram and Mohmand Agency.” **Despite the assurance, uncertainty persists among many of the 361,000 people in the agency. “We hear constantly that North Waziristan is going to be the next target of the security forces,” said Saleem Wazir, 38. “The rumours of this happening are really rife at this point. The thought terrifies me. Where will we go? How will I move my father who is paralysed and my wife who is expecting our fifth child in a month?”
The possibility of military action has led some local humanitarian groups to consider how they would handle such an emergency. **“When the operation against militants by the army began in Swat in February 2009, most aid agencies were taken by surprise when over 1.5 million people were rapidly displaced. Conditions in camps were appalling, especially in the initial weeks,” **said Asif Khan, a volunteer with the charitable Edhi Foundation who worked with internally displaced persons (IDPs) from Swat in camps in the Mardan and Swabi districts of Khyber Paktoonkhwa Province (KP) immediately after the displacement began.
“We should have earmarked places for camps, [and put] facilities in place for [pre-positioned] food ahead of any movement from another area, and we are thinking about how to plan for that,” he told.
The UN at the time described the disaster as the “worst since Rwanda” and there are fears a similar crisis could reoccur. The lack of access for aid agencies to areas of fighting makes matters worse. “Lack of access to North Waziristan is a problem. We have not been told about any operation, but if an emergency situation arises we have contingency plans to deal with this,” Michael O’Brien, spokesman for the International Committee of the Red Cross, told. The UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR) said it was not aware of any planned military action in North Waziristan. Duniya Aslam Khan, a UNHCR associate public information officer, told: “UNHCR hasn’t been formally contacted or requested to take any steps by authorities on the issue. However, as a general principle, we have a contingency capability in place to respond to new displacement situations that may occur in the region and we are prepared if the situation arises. Camps can be set up if the need arises.”
In areas of North Waziristan, where attacks by unmanned US drones have resulted in loss of life and given rise to anger among tribesman, especially as the attacks have often killed civilians, disquiet remains. The death of 40 civilians in a strike in March led to tribesmen warning they would take revenge. “Who knows what could happen here?” Jamal Sanullah Wazir told from Miranshah, the main town of North Waziristan.
He said he had already asked relatives to look into the cost of rented housing in Peshawar or other areas, or the possibility of moving in with relatives. Uncertainty has deepened following revenge attacks in northern areas in the wake of the 2 May US raid in Abbottabad which killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. Militants from neighbouring Afghanistan reportedly attacked security personnel in the Dir District of KP, resulting in 30 deaths and causing families to flee the area. Dir District, which borders on Swat District, was caught up in the 2009 conflict which displaced tens of thousands of people.
”People are human beings and have suffered a lot in the past [during] military operations here,” Ihsan Dawar, president of the Tribal Union of Journalists in North Waziristan, told. “Media reports about the operation are creating a lot of panic and some people have already rented houses in Bannu [a neighbouring district in KP] and the areas outside the tribal belt in the event of any kind of emergency.”

http://www.dawn.com/2011/06/16/fears-of-over-security-in-north-waziristan.html

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so why don’t they leave us,withdraw their support for Army and nuclear program…

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Ultimately yes , but for now we cannot. It is the same story like " Main to kumbal ko chorta hoon laikin kumbal mujhay nahi chorta" I hope you have heard or read that story. US and Pakistan both cannot live with out each other at this point of time.

Exactly , small or big all the governments lie to each other and to their own people.

Agar kisan ko pata hay toh haathi-on key lara-e say door rahna cha-e-a.

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Re: U.S.-Pakistan relations on a collision course

We can live without USA starting today. Our political & military brass must show some manhood.

1) Pakistan economy is enough self-resilient to foreign shocks, history is the guide we still manage to squeeze growth:
> Asian Crisis
> Earth Quakes & Floods
> War on Terror
> Global Financial Crises

2) We just have to educate our people to pay taxes, just 2 million pay taxes in Pakistan compare to over 60 million of labor force. Our current target is 1.9 trillion tax collection for 2011-2012, which is just tip of the ice berg.

3) We have to have good relations with our neighbors and that is including India. Look at Turkey "Zero Problem" policy with neighbors.

4) Pakistan is the more resourceful country on planet earth when we talk about food. We just need a good policy & mechanism for food security. Nearly 50% of raw food smuggled to Afghanistan, Iran & CAR's. We can produce enough food for 300 million people let alone just 180.

5) Our Installed energy capacity is over 21000 MW, we need 16000 MW peak today, the problem is management not the lack of resources to produce enough energy.

6) Inflation & unemployment can be taken care of in less then a year, the government just have to collect more taxes & starting to pay foreign debt. Public debt (local) is sustainable because our banking sector is sitting on rock solid foundations. If foreign debt goes down it will drive down the price of $ which is great for exports. In return our reserves will grow, currently as of today they are standing at 17.5 bn$ we need at least at 25 bn$ for our year worth of imports.

7) The most important, more then 60% of Pakistani economy is not documented, so our actual GDP is quite high.

..i can keep writing .. ...and .... writing...... but the ultimate point is, we are not a failed nation. We know the solutions of our problems. What we need is sincere politician's not generals to rule us.

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OK , OK you convinced me , now who is going to put a bell around cat's neck ? How get rid/tame generals who would not like to live in peace with India because that is not good for their job security and perks they get to enjoy because of this hawwa.

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My hope is with Zardari, Nawaz Sharif, Asfand Wali, Altaf Hussain & Imran Khan. I am willing to give them next 2 elections or 8 more years.

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exactly , jaan chord dein humari!! we can def live without them!!

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oh man!!! :(

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u r joking right? all of them>??

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…and what do you found in my post to become sad :hmmm:

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yup all of them i don't discriminate ;)

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Are both our nations, as evident by the recent meeting between our officials to form a joint anti- terror team, still committed to achieving the common goal of defeating terrorism? : http://www.dawn.com/2011/06/02/us-pakistan-form-an-anti-terror-squad-report.html

Do we forget that US military trainers were in Pakistan at the request of the Pakistani government and helped train the frontier corps to protect the border from terrorist attacks? “We recently received a written request from the Government of Pakistan to reduce the number of U.S. military personnel here, and we have nearly completed that reduction,” said Vice Adm. Michael LeFever, Chief of the Office of the Defense Representative-Pakistan. “We’ve been honored to partner with the Pakistan military and we believe our service members here provide excellent support to Pakistan’s military in the fight against violent extremists.”

As an ally, we remain ready to provide assistance should the Pakistani government request our return. The US-Pakistan relationship, no matter what anyone says, is unique and based on mutual respect and interest. As in all relationships we have had our differences, but US civilian and military leadership stands resolutely with Pakistan to help your great nation defeat the menace of terrorism that plagues us both. Is it not in our mutual interest to defeat the terrorists who are hell bent on destroying our world?

CDR Bill Speaks
DET- United States Central Command
www.centcom.mil/ur