U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

[rommel]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

@sanjsingh

So Pakistan supported the Muslim Taliban but not the Muslim Nothern Alliance? But then turned against them for the sake of the US. So is Pakistan just supporting them just because they are Muslim and wouldn't do so otherwise. Thats the problem with many in the world who will only support those of their own kind over others even if they are wrong. I am not sure what religion has to do with all this. **So why has Pakistan now turned agaist the Taliban and supports the US war against them.

**You keep mentioning India as though you are trying to change the topic, but in recent years more Muslims in Pakistan have died by the hand of Muslims in Pakistan (especially Shias) than have been killed in India. I am not here to defend Indian policy I am not so naive to take the stance that I need to defend my country/religion right or wrong. If I can see something is wrong I am willing to poin it out and not in denial.

Northern alliance are drug dealers who signed a deal with america you actually support and encorage this relationship oh dear.

America has lost this war spents hundreds of billions for nothing wasted almost 12 years running in circles and getting no where and you think pakistan has turned against the mujahideen haha niave and foolishness at its worst!

for sure pakistan has massive problems but India is a cracked window waiting to fall into pieces 800 billion people in abject poverty each state wanting independence minorties slaughtered women raped on buses as they have been for decades in places like kashmir and you want us to take you seriously as a super power :)

sincere advice stop being brainwashed by NDTV, cnn or other comical news outlets and get a dose of reality.

[rommel]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

those are the repurcussions of Pakistan's own policy of adopting terrorist warfare was a strategy in mistaken attempts to solve border disputes which should be approached with more maturity than that.

And what exactly do they need Afghanistan as a buffer for from? and why would Afghanistan or the rest of the world accept Pakistan treating Afghanistan as a buffer state - they are their own separate nation.

For generations afghanistan has been a protection for pakistan on western front. But since 2001 when Pakistan decided to start attacking pockets in afghanistan it has let in the americans and indians into places like balochistan.

It has cost tens of billions which pakistan cannot afford. You have had entire battalions moved from kashmir and on the indian border now fighting on the afghan border why? for whose benefit it only benfits americas agenda maybe you like that but i don't want a single muslim life lost for a kafirs agenda!

these artifical borders mean nothing to muslims when the dust is settled and the yanks are ejected this invisible border will become irrelevant as it has done before.

[sanjsingh]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

[QUOTE]
Northern alliance are drug dealers who signed a deal with america you actually support and encorage this relationship oh dear.

[/QUOTE]

OK lets take this one step at a time, when did I say I support the Nothern Alliance??? YOU said that Pakistan supports it Muslim brothers anywhere in the world, so I am asking you how can you support the Taliban and not the Northen Alliance as they are both Muslim?

[QUOTE]
you think pakistan has turned against the mujahideen haha niave and foolishness at its worst!

[/QUOTE]

Yes I think they have, as they provide support to NATO who are fighting the Taleban, do you not call that turning against the Taliban?

[sanjsingh]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

Is there anyone here who is following this debate between myself and Rommel? As it would give me inspiration to continue if there were people who are interested.

[rommel]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

@sanjsingh

OK lets take this one step at a time, when did I say I support the Nothern Alliance??? YOU said that Pakistan supports it Muslim brothers anywhere in the world, so I am asking you how can you support the Taliban and not the Northen Alliance as they are both Muslim?

Yes I think they have, as they provide support to NATO who are fighting the Taleban, do you not call that turning against the Taliban?

if you don't know the difference between northern alliance and the mujahideen fighting the americans i am not gonna hold your hand to explain, Google is your friend.

so after 11+ years and the super power of the world United States managing to controlling nothing you still think the pakistan forces have turned against the mujahideen haha your funny i like your jokes.

[sanjsingh]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

[QUOTE]
Northern alliance are drug dealers who signed a deal with america you actually support and encorage this relationship oh dear.

[/QUOTE]

OK lets take this extremely slowly, when did I say I support the Nothern Alliance? Please make that clear, then we can move on.

[rommel]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

@sanjsingh

OK lets take this extremely slowly, when did I say I support the Nothern Alliance? Please make that clear, then we can move on.

you don't even know the difference between northern alliance and taliban serously i suggest you take your shallow opinion and join your american buddies who after 12 years of taking a beating from the mujahideen they will never forget and run home in humiliating defeat shame on them so called super power.

[sanjsingh]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

Rommel why are you deliberetely not answering my questions? You make points and then don't back it up. I haven't said I support the Northern Alliance, or I am against the Taliban. I have just been responding to your points, but you are ignoring mine.

[rommel]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

Rommel why are you deliberetely not answering my questions? You make points and then don't back it up. I haven't said I support the Northern Alliance, or I am against the Taliban. I have just been responding to your points, but you are ignoring mine.

Your points have been answered.

[Minar_e_moor]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

For generations afghanistan has been a protection for pakistan on western front. But since 2001 when Pakistan decided to start attacking pockets in afghanistan it has let in the americans and indians into places like balochistan.

It has cost tens of billions which pakistan cannot afford. You have had entire battalions moved from kashmir and on the indian border now fighting on the afghan border why? for whose benefit it only benfits americas agenda maybe you like that but i don't want a single muslim life lost for a kafirs agenda!

these artifical borders mean nothing to muslims when the dust is settled and the yanks are ejected this invisible border will become irrelevant as it has done before.

and for centuries before that what is Pakistan and Afghanistan were border protectorates for Indian empires...so what? stop living in the past.

you seem to have no memory at all - did you not read the Musharraf lament about why he entered Pakistan into this 'war'? It was the only response Pakistan had to W's 'with us or against us' challenge. That is what kept Pakistan as a country without being attacked and invaded by the US. So wipe off any impression that Pakistan entered this war by choice. It had no other choice to survive as a sovereign nation. You may or may not like W's tactics but facts or facts.

It is NOT an artificial border. Try crossing it and you will know how real it is might fast.

single muslim life? are you that far away from reality? for the past decade go check how many muslim lifes have been blasted by your fellow muslims!

finally, even your non-kaffir baoochi 'brothers' don't care for the brotherhood if their land is going to be raped and pillaged for minerals like has been happening. you and people like you of course have over time koolaided yourselves into believing it is either alien invasion or kaffirs causing the 'balooch' 'problem'.

With such little knowledge and perspective, it is probably best if you don't assume the role of representing muslims. because I don't think they are as ignorant as the self-appointed representative

[sanjsingh]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

[QUOTE]
America has lost this war spents hundreds of billions for nothing wasted almost 12 years running in circles and getting no where and you think pakistan has turned against the mujahideen haha niave and foolishness at its worst!

[/QUOTE]

One first has to decide what the West objectives were when starting this war only then can we decide if the West has lost its war against the Taliban or succeeded in it. So why did the West start this war against the Pakistani backed Taliban? The reason given was that the Taliban had granted sanctuary to Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden, they had provided them with shelter and support in its war against the West. Now in that respect we can say America has won its war as Al-Qaeda has been on the run for quite a while and has had to move to places like Pakistan and Yemen were the US has followed it.
Of course not all would agree with that reason and there are many conspiracy theories about it all.

[rommel]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

@Minar_e_moor

and for centuries before that what is Pakistan and Afghanistan were border protectorates for Indian empires...so what? stop living in the past.

you seem to have no memory at all - did you not read the Musharraf lament about why he entered Pakistan into this 'war'? It was the only response Pakistan had to W's 'with us or against us' challenge. That is what kept Pakistan as a country without being attacked and invaded by the US. So wipe off any impression that Pakistan entered this war by choice. It had no other choice to survive as a sovereign nation. You may or may not like W's tactics but facts or facts.

It is NOT an artificial border. Try crossing it and you will know how real it is might fast.

single muslim life? are you that far away from reality? for the past decade go check how many muslim lifes have been blasted by your fellow muslims!

finally, even your non-kaffir baoochi 'brothers' don't care for the brotherhood if their land is going to be raped and pillaged for minerals like has been happening. you and people like you of course have over time koolaided yourselves into believing it is either alien invasion or kaffirs causing the 'balooch' 'problem'.

With such little knowledge and perspective, it is probably best if you don't assume the role of representing muslims. because I don't think they are as ignorant as the self-appointed representative

Everyone has a choice, As stated before pakistan has paid big price for entering into Americas war. 10's of billions of dollars lost, economy of pakistan has come to a standstill since 2001, security has been completly gone in pakistan, 10 of thousands of lives lost. You want talk facts now refute these facts if you can!

All borders between muslim countries are artificial created by british officials using a map a pencil and ruler. They will be wiped away soon regardless of your defeated mentality and narrow vision.

So you want to blame muslims for deaths of muslims funny i guess the americans must have been shooting with atta and daal all this time and that raymond davies who was caught with his pants down that must have been an episode of 24 pakistan edition! refute this if you can please i want to see this.

Before getting ants in your pants on balochistan respond to the challenge above. Then we will see who is the one with little knowledge buddy.

[rommel]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

@sanjsingh

One first has to decide what the West objectives were when starting this war only then can we decide if the West has lost its war against the Taliban or succeeded in it. So why did the West start this war against the Pakistani backed Taliban? The reason given was that the Taliban had granted sanctuary to Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden, they had provided them with shelter and support in its war against the West. Now in that respect we can say America has won its war as Al-Qaeda has been on the run for quite a while and has had to move to places like Pakistan and Yemen were the US has followed it. Of course not all would agree with that reason and there are many conspiracy theories about it all.

jeeez you still trying huh alright.

americas objective was to control access to the caspian and to prevent the establishment of islamic state in the region. 12 years later having spent $600 billion dollars what have you got to show for it?

you control nothing in afghanistan, even western estimates say the taliban/mujahideen control 80-90% of afghanistan.
you have managed to unite the afghans against America
several years ago america stated we will never talk to taliban they bogey man terrrorist.
Today america is begging for taliban to come to negotiating table so the yanks can save face!

and you want to claim america won its war i never seen someone on the floor knocked out claiming to be winner keep up with the delusions dude!

you are hilarious no one knows in pakistan or afghanistan any person member of this al qeeeda your media keep singing about everyday we only know we are muslims and we support the mujahideen who kicked your ass.

the american plan for eurasia has well and truly been extinguished!

[mo293]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

jeeez you still trying huh alright.

americas objective was to control access to the caspian and to prevent the establishment of islamic state in the region. 12 years later having spent $600 billion dollars what have you got to show for it?

you control nothing in afghanistan, even western estimates say the taliban/mujahideen control 80-90% of afghanistan. you have managed to unite the afghans against America several years ago america stated we will never talk to taliban they bogey man terrrorist. Today america is begging for taliban to come to negotiating table so the yanks can save face!

and you want to claim america won its war i never seen someone on the floor knocked out claiming to be winner keep up with the delusions dude!

you are hilarious no one knows in pakistan or afghanistan any person member of this al qeeeda your media keep singing about everyday we only know we are muslims and we support the mujahideen who kicked your ass.

the american plan for eurasia has well and truly been extinguished!

Rommel ji, Amreeka also won in Nam, NoKo, Bay of Pigs and quite a few more so whats the big deal if it also won in Vietnamistan.

[sanjsingh]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

Rommel you persist in making this a personal argument, which is not at all productive. I really do not wish to stoop down to that level. You keep suggesting that I am a representative of the West, America, or India. I am not. I hope I am wrong but it seems that you are judging me because of my name and you are assuming that all non-Muslims are your enemies or against your religion. There are many many people who aren't like that.

I agree with your point of the Al-Qaeda threat being exaggerated and how now America is negotiating with the Taleban to get out. If the motive was for the destruction of an Islamic state (at least the one that existed before the war) then America seems to have succeeded in that too, in the short term at least. As it would take time for the Taliban to rebuild its nation and the country may well sadly go back to a civil war. However the cost of that victory like you pointed out has been enormous.

[rommel]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

Rommel you persist in making this a personal argument, which is not at all productive. I really do not wish to stoop down to that level. You keep suggesting that I am a representative of the West, America, or India. I am not. I hope I am wrong but it seems that you are judging me because of my name and you are assuming that all non-Muslims are your enemies or against your religion. There are many many people who aren't like that.

I agree with your point of the Al-Qaeda threat being exaggerated and how now America is negotiating with the Taleban to get out. If the motive was for the destruction of an Islamic state (at least the one that existed before the war) then America seems to have succeeded in that too, in the short term at least. As it would take time for the Taliban to rebuild its nation and the country may well sadly go back to a civil war. However the cost of that victory like you pointed out has been enormous.

This is not personal this is ideological.

You are supporter of democratic capitalism and by default you support the colonialist nations with the leader being United States.

destruction of Islamic state is preemptive maneuver meaning they don't want it to be established at all from egypt to indonesia but its an inevitability. All the colonialists can do at best is delay the inevitable even their steel wall in the middle east those unbreakable dictators which protected their interests have fallen.

I don't care if your name is muslim or non muslim it is irrelevant to me, like i said this is battle of ideologies.

[queer]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

what rubbish. historically islamic countries have invaded and enslaved others as much as democratic capitalistic countries. just because one supports democracy of capitalism doesn’t mean they support hegemony or colonialism.

you are very confused about why you are fighting and who you are fighting. in fact, that makes you a thoughtless cog in the machinery creating chaos.

[sanjsingh]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

[QUOTE]
You are supporter of democratic capitalism and by default you support the colonialist nations with the leader being United States.
[/QUOTE]

As I support democracy, does that automatically mean I support the war agaisnt Afghanistan??? You do not know me so what do you know of my ideologies? Can you highlight posts where you can show I support the American war against the Taliban?

[QUOTE]
destruction of Islamic state is preemptive maneuver meaning they don't want it to be established at all from egypt to indonesia but its an inevitability. All the colonialists can do at best is delay the inevitable even their steel wall in the middle east those unbreakable dictators which protected their interests have fallen.
[/QUOTE]

Although I dont want to belittle your hopes, but saying "an Islamic super nation is inevitable" is more of a hope rather than a fact especially when you consider the relationship between the various Muslim sects. Pakistan has many many of its own as do many other Muslim countries so its quite difficult to envisage that happening.

[rommel]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

@queer

what rubbish. historically islamic countries have invaded and enslaved others as much as democratic capitalistic countries. just because one supports democracy of capitalism doesn’t mean they support hegemony or colonialism.

you are very confused about why you are fighting and who you are fighting. in fact, that makes you a thoughtless cog in the machinery creating chaos.

Name me any country which has not been colonized in the muslim world, africa or south america?

You cannot defend the colonialists because there record is there for everyone to see.

They have exploited every nation they have touched and to this day it continues.

They have stolen the gold and given you this garbage called democracy as a replacement and what has that produced more garbage!

Instead of remove the root cause of the problem, It seems you are the confused one playing this same record again and again of democracy and more democracy its like a drug addict asking for another fix.

[rommel]

Re: U.S. may remove all troops from Afghanistan after 2014

As I support democracy, does that automatically mean I support the war agaisnt Afghanistan??? You do not know me so what do you know of my ideologies? Can you highlight posts where you can show I support the American war against the Taliban?

Although I dont want to belittle your hopes, but saying "an Islamic super nation is inevitable" is more of a hope rather than a fact especially when you consider the relationship between the various Muslim sects. Pakistan has many many of its own as do many other Muslim countries so its quite difficult to envisage that happening.

You stated you support democratic capitalism so by default you support the spread of this ideology all over the world, if you deny this then you are accepting this ideology is no good and not fit for purpose.

Was the United States of America difficult to envisage when it was in conflict with itelff? how about the European union with its various languages, food, culture?

you have no problem unions happening elsewhere but when the muslim world wants unity, it becomes impossible in your head, for someone who doesn't know the potential of something it will remain impossible.