Then why is Altaf bhai calling for an end to the drone attacks? just admit it, hes doing it because he doesnt want to lose favor with his jiyalaz and supporters.
May be those 29 are already counted as militants, the civilians killed are told to be around 750.
The orginal source said only 19 terrorists were killed, which may be true for 19 Al-Qaeda terrorists, but out of the rest so-called "civilians", majority would be taliban.
The orginal source said only 19 terrorists were killed, which may be true for 19 Al-Qaeda terrorists, but out of the rest so-called "civilians", majority would be taliban.
Well, now I have to ask because it's fast becomming a tradition here, do you have any evidence for that?
Well, now I have to ask because it's fast becomming a tradition here, do you have any evidence for that?
I quoted an NY Times article on one talib saying how 29 of his buddies were killed by drones and how drones are the biggest threat to taliban. Not to mention the numerous articles with local witnesses saying how talibs have been killed in each drone attack and their bodies had been taken by taliban.
Bottom line: For US, drone attacks are effective and as more of pakistan falls to the taliban, drone attacks will increase and expand to cover most areas of pakistan.
Then why is Altaf bhai calling for an end to the drone attacks? just admit it, hes doing it because he doesnt want to lose favor with his jiyalaz and supporters.
Honestly, he's just pandering to rest of pakistan, not to mqm supporters. Drone attacks will continue and expand.
Evidence … Taliban killed … more then 19 in one airstrike …
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
28 killed in suspected US missile strike
** Two Arabs, some local Taliban and several Uzbeks killed in strike *
** Taliban surround targeted compound, carry away dead*
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008\10\28\story_28-10-2008_pg1_8
Haqqani’s commander killed in Waziristan strike
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/print3.asp?id=21279
Also, there were reports that TTP leader for Orakzai and Khyber tribal regions and Baitullah’s deputy Hakimullah Mehsud was supposed to attend the meeting. There were rumours that he had died in the attack, but he later phoned The News to deny the reports about his death. He admitted the drone had targeted one of their training camps in Orakzai and killed some of their fighters
Proved:
Go here and weep:
Drone attacks on Pakistan by the United States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and dont be fooled by wikipedia…every single drone attack is cited… :hehe:
I said I dont watch Fox News on TV 
Are the Taliban this noble that they would actually help people remove dead bodies?
They are only interested in gaining power through fear.
There is no follow up attack because USA follows the Taliban who collect dead bodies to gain further intelligence.
He was going to have Eid Dinner there but changed his mind. But does not suggest that our border areas are rife with foreign terrorists.
Before it was said that only 14 were militants and rest were civilians.
Now this has jumped to 29.
Do some more research
Evidence ...... Taliban killed .... more then 19 in one airstrike ...
How the hell does that proove that the ONLY victims were militants? Because it was quoted as such? Give me a break.
I need proof that there were NO civilian casualties. That's not the same as verifying the number of dead militants.
Fail.
LOL…yes, wikipeida has established some uber tech that can independently verify who is and isn’t being killed by drone attacks…what kind of high school reasoning is this?
Indeed, at the top of the article they mention the following:
LOL…
Re: U.S. and Pakistan are Jointly Carrying Out Drone attacks
These drones attacks are killing more innocent civilians than the terrorist...
Merc: Which planet are you from ?
Do you really think these drones are doing a good job? One good thing they are doing is killin innocents and once they are killed our authorities (aka US slaves) label them as terrorist...... how sad..
The way its going i don't think talibanisation will ever end....
How the hell does that proove that the ONLY victims were militants? Because it was quoted as such? Give me a break.
I need proof that there were NO civilian casualties. That's not the same as verifying the number of dead militants.
Fail.
No one is saying that there has be NO civilian casualties !!!!!! But then it is also not true that only 14 Al Qadea and 700+ civilians have been killed. There has been a number of Taliban deaths which the reports clearly state !!!!
No one is saying that there has be NO civilian casualties !!!!!!
Well, that's the problem...people are suggesting this or refusing to even consider a significant loss of civilian life...
Numbers will be bogus anyway...bodies will be moved, access to these areas are restricted, and so on. In the end, these attacks may be counter productive.
Re: U.S. and Pakistan are Jointly Carrying Out Drone attacks
if army stops these drones,then they can make a ground for attack on bait ullah..on one side,americans r doing drone attacks on tribal area making people angry and otn the other hand provide weapons to these natural born world most tough fighters of tribal belt to fight against our army beac of pro american image of govt and army...america is such a clever enemy of pak....drones attack must be stop..
Re: U.S. and Pakistan are Jointly Carrying Out Drone attacks
Ok, drone attack can stop if grounf attack by US can start in Waziristan. We've already given up on that area.
Re: U.S. and Pakistan are Jointly Carrying Out Drone attacks
first of all,tribal areas have always lived almost as independent areas...we neva considered it our part..neva did development works in their area..it is a propoganda tht army has given up all the tribel agencies to taliban..situation in bajaur kurum,bajaur khyber agencies r under control..but yes orakzai and wazirstan areas r under taliban control..but this can be tackle if we dialogue with local waziris and stop drones..we cannot have a moral ground for attack or dialogue unless we stop these drones
u know wht i want americans to enter tribel area....;)..i sincerely want tht as it will be blessing in disguise for us...by the way,americans will neva do tht..they r clever enemies..
You need to read his post again, he said:
The wiki link you posted doesn’t say anything like that.
But using a Fox News article as reference isn’t much different :hehe:
Militant organizations were involved in relief work after earthquake in Islamabad.
I’m not doing any research, check out picoico’s post on numbers 
first of all,tribal areas have always lived almost as independent areas...we neva considered it our part..neva did development works in their area......
Oh common guy!
why do you have to repeat the old stories that were never true in the past and they especially not true these days.
For 40 years FATAns had Pakistani taxpayers by the throat. The communists and socialists in ANP would daily talk about cutting up Pakistan. So we the rest of Pakistan remained hostage and we paid huge sums to the tribal maliks.
Even then, tribals thought it was a funny game to kidnap engineers for ransom who were there to build F-ing roads and electricity stations.
Do you know how many engineers and workers have been held for ransom by the $tupeed tribals???? 1000s!
Even when the electric towers were setup, tribals never paid any bills. If the utility companies shutdown power for the non-payment, the tribals would come shoot the electric lines and bomb the towers and other installation.
Now tell me where on earth a developing country can continue spending on infrastructure where the federal employees are shot at, bills are not paid, and there exists a persistent state of deadly violence?
Is this the way to ask for development?
If you want development, then tribals better be civilized enough that both government and private citizens can come and go without any fear.
Tribal traditions are the biggest hurdle in the development. Until these outdated outmoded traditions are voluntarily or forcibly changed, there cannot be any development.
Drone Attacks Kill 48 Civilians For Every 1 Al Qaeda Killed In Pakistan
Friday, April 10, 2009
By Amir Mir
LAHORE: Of the 60 cross-border predator strikes carried out by the Afghanistan-based American drones in Pakistan between January 14, 2006 and April 8, 2009, only 10 were able to hit their actual targets, killing 14 wanted al-Qaeda leaders, besides perishing 687 innocent Pakistani civilians. The success percentage of the US predator strikes thus comes to not more than six per cent.
Figures compiled by the Pakistani authorities show that a total of 701 people, including 14 al-Qaeda leaders, have been killed since January 2006 in 60 American predator attacks targeting the tribal areas of Pakistan. Two strikes carried out in 2006 had killed 98 civilians while three
attacks conducted in 2007 had slain 66 Pakistanis, yet none of the wanted al-Qaeda or Taliban leaders could be hit by the Americans right on target. However, of the 50 drone attacks carried out between January 29, 2008 and April 8, 2009, 10 hit their targets and killed 14 wanted al-Qaeda operatives. Most of these attacks were carried out on the basis of intelligence believed to have been provided by the Pakistani and Afghan tribesmen who had been spying for the US-led allied forces stationed in Afghanistan.
The remaining 50 drone attacks went wrong due to faulty intelligence information, killing hundreds of innocent civilians, including women and children. The number of the Pakistani civilians killed in those 50 attacks stood at 537, in which 385 people lost their lives in 2008 and 152 people were slain in the first 99 days of 2009 (between January 1 and April 8).
Of the 50 drone attacks, targeting the Pakistani tribal areas since January 2008, 36 were carried out in 2008 and 14 were conducted in the first 99 days of 2009. Of the 14 attacks targeting Pakistan in 2009, three were carried out in January, killing 30 people, two in February killing 55 people, five in March killing 36 people and four were conducted in the first nine days of April, killing 31 people.
Of the 14 strikes carried out in the first 99 days of April 2009, only one proved successful, killing two most wanted senior al-Qaeda leaders - Osama al Kini and Sheikh Ahmed Salim Swedan. Both had lost their lives in a New Year’s Day drone strike carried out in the South Waziristan region on January 1, 2009.
Kini was believed to be the chief operational commander of al-Qaeda in Pakistan and had replaced Abu Faraj Al Libi after his arrest from Bannu in 2004. Both men were behind the 1998 bombings of the US embassies in Dares Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya, which killed 224 civilians and wounded more than 5,000 others.
There were 36 recorded cross-border US predator strikes inside Pakistan during 2008, of which 29 took place after August 31, 2008, killing 385 people. However, only nine of the 36 strikes hit their actual targets, killing 12 wanted al-Qaeda leaders. The first successful predator strike had killed Abu Laith al Libi, a senior military commander of al-Qaeda who was targeted in North Waziristan on January 29, 2008. The second successful attack in Bajaur had killed Abu Sulayman Jazairi, al-Qaeda’s external operations chief, on March 14, 2008. The third attack in South Waziristan on July 28, 2008, had killed Abu Khabab al Masri, al-Qaeda’s weapons of mass destruction chief. The fourth successful attack in South Waziristan on August 13, 2008, had killed al-Qaeda leader Abdur Rehman.
The fifth predator strike carried out in North Waziristan near Miranshah on Sept 8, 2008 had killed three al-Qaeda leaders, Abu Haris, Abu Hamza, and Zain Ul Abu Qasim. The sixth successful predator hit in the South Waziristan region on October 2008 had killed Khalid Habib, a key leader of al-Qaeda’s paramilitary Shadow Army.
The seventh such attack conducted in North Waziristan on October 31, 2008 had killed Abu Jihad al Masri, a top leader of the Egyptian Islamic group. The eighth successful predator strike had killed al-Qaeda leader Abdullah Azzam al Saudi in east of North Waziristan on November 19, 2008.
The ninth and the last successful drone attack of 2008, carried out in the Ali Khel region just outside Miramshah in North Waziristan on November 22, 2008, had killed al-Qaeda leader Abu Zubair al Masri and his Pakistani fugitive accomplice Rashid Rauf.
According to the figures compiled by the Pakistani authorities, a total of 537 people have been killed in 50 incidents of cross-border US predator strikes since January 1, 2008 to April 8, 2009, averaging 34 killings per month and 11 killings per attack. The average per month killings in predator strikes during 12 months of 2008 stood at 32 while the average per attack killings in the 36 drone strikes for the same year stood at 11.
Similarly, 152 people have been killed in 14 incidents of cross-border predator attacks in the tribal areas in the first 99 days of 2009, averaging 38 killings per month and 11 killings per attack.
Since September 3, 2008, it appears that the Americans have upped their attacks in Pakistani tribal areas in a bid to disrupt the al-Qaeda and the Taliban network, which they allege is being used to launch cross border ambushes against the Nato forces in Afghanistan.
The American forces stationed in Afghanistan carried out nine aerial strikes between September 3 and September 25, 2008, killing 57 people and injuring 38 others. The attacks were launched on September 3, 4, 5, 8, 12, 15, 17, 22 and September 27. However, the September 3, 2008 American action was unique in the sense that two CH-47 Chinook transport helicopters landed in the village of Zawlolai in the South Waziristan Agency with ground troops from the US Special Operation Forces, fired at three houses and killed 17, including five women and four sleeping children.
Besides the two helicopters carrying the US Special Forces Commandos, two jet fighters and two gun-ship helicopters provided the air cover for the half-an-hour American operation, more than a kilometre inside the Pakistani border.
The last predator strike on [April 8, 2009] was carried out hardly a few hours after the Pakistani authorities had rejected an American proposal for joint operations in the tribal areas against terrorism and militancy, as differences of opinion between the two countries over various aspects of the war on terror came out into the open for the first time.
The proposal came from two top US visiting officials, presidential envoy for the South Asia Richard Holbrooke and Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen. However, the Pakistani military and political leadership reportedly rejected the proposal and adopted a tough posture against a barrage of increasing US predator strikes and criticism emanating from Washington, targeting the Pakistan Army and the Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) and creating doubts about their sincerity in the war on terror and the fight against al-Qaeda and Taliban.
**Drone attacks **
Dawn Editorial
Friday, 08 May, 2009 | 08:48 AM PST |
Republican Congressman Ronald Earnest Paul’s query to the House regarding the legitimacy of US drone-bombing in Fata comes not a moment too soon. The matter is of pivotal significance in the Pakistani forces’ efforts to contain the terrorism emanating from the area, and is a divisive factor in the debate over how the issue must be tackled. The justification offered earlier was that Pakistan appeared helpless against the rising tide of militancy and terrorism. But now the army has launched renewed offensives in the militant-infested areas and reports suggest that gains are being achieved. Meanwhile, public opinion is turning against the militants, with many in the citizenry now demanding that no stone be left unturned in bringing them to book. In this situation, the continuing US drone incursions are robbing our security forces of some of their moral legitimacy and are, in fact, undermining the war effort.
For one thing, as Mr Paul pointed out, the drone incursions violate the rights of a sovereign country. Given that the US is not at war with Pakistan — and, in fact, the two countries are partners in what was earlier referred to as the ‘war on terror’ — the US cannot claim legitimacy in unilaterally launching offensives against militants whom the Pakistan military has already engaged in serious combat. The repeated US violations of the country’s territorial integrity subvert our government’s efforts to make this ‘Pakistan’s war’ and lend currency to the extremists’ claim that Pakistan is merely a pawn in what is, essentially, America’s war.
Secondly, th**e US bombings have resulted in a large number of civilian casualties which, in the public’s mind, outweigh by far any success against the militants. **America’s actions stand in danger of being viewed as wanton foreign aggression against innocent populations. And the drone strikes are contributing to the increasing number of refugees fleeing the area. Meanwhile, the Pakistan Army and other security forces continue to suffer heavy casualties in the battles underway on our western borders.
These losses cannot help but be juxtaposed with the fact that the US uses unmanned drones to fight without putting any of its soldiers at risk. It may soon be asked whether Afghan or Pakistani lives are less precious than those of the Americans. A serious rethink is in order. The American military must confine itself to the western side of the Durand Line.
DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Drone attacks
i have to ask those advocating drone attacks, is your opinion on the matter from american perspective or pakistani?