Please refer to this video and ahadith mentioned in them. Have the mullahs changed the ahadith pertaining to the 2nd coming of Jesus(as) for their own convenience?
older version depicts Jesus (as) of 2nd coming as wheatish in complexion but recent versions depict him as whitish reddish to be in sync with the complexion of jesus(as) that the holy prophet (pbuh) mentioned in context to Mairaj where he saw different prophets including Jesus (as)
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
wait
the title says : Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
the simple answer to that is NO, they are both in same book
then you say : Have the mullahs changed the ahadith pertaining to the 2nd coming of Jesus(as) for their own convenience?
then: older version depicts Jesus (as) of 2nd coming as wheatish in complexion but recent versions depict him as whitish reddish to be in sync with the complexion of jesus(as) that the holy prophet (pbuh) mentioned in context to Mairaj where he saw different prophets including Jesus (as)
but the video title says: Hadith Sahi Bukhari Shareef Altered by Anti Ahmadiyya Mullas
exactly what are you alledging? are you saying some guy wrote a book without emphasizing the arabic difference in his translation?
if you can highlight at what points in the video the allegations are made that would be easier since its a 20 minute video
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
Peace All,
Pardon me but the title of video made me laugh 
First of all what does it means “Fout shuda Anbiya ke darman” by commentator? Secondly the hadiths narrated by many different pplz so to get the authentication of its, one must dig the all related book. Lastly, does the color matters?
Simply brilliant :k:
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
Brother **kchughtai **– Peace
This issue has been dealt with.
Hadith & Alleged Death of Jesus -10 (Two different descriptions?)
Tenth Qadiani argument answered in the following lines. They argue that;
1. In the Mi`raj the Messiah seen with Moses, Abraham, and other prophets, by the Holy Prophet, was described by him thus:
a. “I saw Jesus. “I saw Jesus. He was a man of a reddish complexion” (Bukhari, Kitab al-ambiya, ch. 24).
b. “I saw Jesus, Moses, and Abraham. Jesus had a reddish complexion, curly hair, and a wide chest”(ibid., ch. 48).
It is clear from both these hadith that by Jesus, who was seen here along with Abraham and Moses, is meant the Israelite prophet. He had a red complexion and curly hair.
2 Bukhari has recorded a hadith in which the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) relates a dream of his about the future: “In a state of sleep I saw myself circumambulating the Ka’ba, and I saw a man of a wheatish complexion with straight hair. I asked who it was. They said: This is the Messiah, son of Mary” (Bukhari, Kitab al-Fitn, ch. 27).
Thus, where Jesus is mentioned along with Abraham and Moses, he is described as of a reddish complexion with curly hair; but where he is seen along with the Dajjal in a dream about the future, he is said to have a wheatish complexion with straight hair. Evidently, these two different descriptions do not apply to one and the same person. So Jesus, the Israelite prophet, whom the Holy Prophet saw in the Mi`raj vision, and the Messiah who was to appear in the latter days to kill the evil Dajjal, are two different persons.
The Truth:
Following are the two Ahadith they refer to along with their usual but erroneous translation;
أَنَّ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ بْنَ عُمَرَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ بَيْنَا أَنَا نَائِمٌ رَأَيْتُنِي أَطُوفُ بِالْكَعْبَةِ فَإِذَا رَجُلٌ آدَمُ سَبْطُ الشَّعَرِ بَيْنَ رَجُلَيْنِ يَنْطُفُ رَأْسُهُ مَاءً فَقُلْتُ مَنْ هَذَا قَالُوا ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ
Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar: Allah’s Messenger (PBUH) said, “While I was sleeping, I saw myself performing the Tawaf of the Ka’ba. Behold, there I saw a wheatish-lank-haired man (holding himself) between two men with water dropping from his hair. I asked, ‘Who is this?’ The people replied, ‘He is the son of Mary.’ (Bukhari, Kitabul Ta’beer, Hadith 6508)
Though normally the English translators have translated the words in red as ‘whitish-red’ but I have given the literal translation. The thing will be hopefully clarified in the lines below;
عَنْ ابْنِ عُمَرَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا قَالَ قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ رَأَيْتُ عِيسَى ومُوسَى وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ فَأَمَّا عِيسَى فَأَحْمَرُ جَعْدٌ عَرِيضُ الصَّدْرِ
Narrated Ibn Umar: The Prophet said, “I saw Moses, Jesus and Abraham (on the night of my Ascension to the heavens). Jesus was of red complexion, curly hair and broad chest.” **(Bukhari, Kitabul Ahadith al-Anbiya, Hadith 3183)
**
Apparently there seem to be two contradictions here;
About Complexion
About Hair
In the following lines we discuss in detail all the various Ahadith about the issue and expose the Qadiani lie.
Complexion:
عَنْ سَالِمٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ قَالَ لَا وَاللَّهِ مَا قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لِعِيسَى أَحْمَرُ وَلَكِنْ قَالَ بَيْنَمَا أَنَا نَائِمٌ أَطُوفُ بِالْكَعْبَةِ فَإِذَا رَجُلٌ آدَمُ سَبْطُ الشَّعَرِ
Salim reports from his father (i.e. Abdullah bin Umar), he said: “No, By Allah, the Prophet did not say that Jesus was of red complexion but he said, “While I was asleep circumambulating the Ka’ba (in my dream), suddenly I saw a man of brown complexion and lank hair.” (Bukhari, Kitabul Ahadith al-Anbiya, Hadith 3185)
Considering the fact that Ibn Umar (RA) himself so emphatically repudiates the idea that Holy Prophet (PBUH) described Jesus (PBUH) to be of red complexion so we have to believe, the narration which attributes to Ibn Umar (RA) the report of Holy Prophet describing Jesus as such is perhaps a mistake by some later narrator. Jesus (PBUH) was not purely of red complexion. Infact this is generally not true for the Semitic people.
The rightful description of Jesus (PBUH) is as narrated by Ibn Abbas (RA):
ابْنَ عَبَّاسٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ …َرَأَيْتُ عِيسَى رَجُلًا مَرْبُوعًا مَرْبُوعَ الْخَلْقِ إِلَى الْحُمْرَةِ وَالْبَيَاضِ سَبِطَ الرَّأْسِ
Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet said, “On the night of my Ascent to the Heaven, … I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair.” (Bukhari, Kitabul Bad’ al-Khalq, Hadith 3000)
Al-Nawawi has written the same in his commentary to the Hadith that speaks of red complexion of Jesus (PBUH):
وَأَنَّهُ اِشْتَبَهَ عَلَى الرَّاوِي فَيَجُوز أَنْ يُتَأَوَّل الْأَحْمَر عَلَى الْأَدَم ، وَلَا يَكُون الْمُرَاد حَقِيقَة الْأُدْمَة وَالْحُمْرَة بَلْ مَا قَارَبَهَا
“And this is confusion on the part of the narrator and perhaps he took red to be wheat-like and it does not mean tan or red but what is near to it.” (Sharah Al-Nawawi on Sahih Muslim 1/302, Kitabul Iman)
The Hair:
فَأَمَّا عِيسَى فَأَحْمَرُ جَعْدٌ
The usual translation goes as; “Jesus was of red complexion [and] curly hair.”
Here the word جَعْدٌ is taken to mean curly hair but this is not the exclusive meaning of this word. Ibn Athir writes about it:
مَعْناه… شَدِيد الأسْرِ
i.e. “It means… ‘Of strong built.’” and further gives an example of it from Hadith:
والحديث الآخر على ناقة جَعْدَة ] أي مُجْتَمِعة الخَلْق شَدِيدةٍ
“In another Hadīth, ‘On a camel of strong built’ i.e. of rigorously cogent built.” (Nihaya fi Gharib al-Asar 1/767)
Indeed scholars have always taken جَعْدٌ to mean ‘of strong built’ in this context. Hafiz Ibn Hujr mentions that it refers to his physical bearing and not hair. He says;
وَوَصْفه لِجُعُودَةِ فِي جِسْمه لَا شَعْره وَالْمُرَاد بِذَلِكَ اِجْتِمَاعه وَاكْتِنَازه
“And this is about sturdiness in body, not the hair and it refers to its compactness and robustness” (Fath Al-Baari 10/242, kitabul ahadith al-anbiya)
Al-Nawawi has also said the very same. He writes;
الْمُرَاد بِالْجَعْدِ هُنَا جُعُودَة الْجِسْم وَهُوَ اِجْتِمَاعه وَاكْتِنَازه وَلَيْسَ الْمُرَاد جُعُودَة الشَّعْر .
“Here جَعْدِ means firmness of the body i.e. its compactness and being thickset. And it does not refer to curling of the hair’** (Sharah Al-Nawawi on Sahih Muslim 1/296, Kitabul Iman)**
Narrated Ibn Umar: The Prophet said, “I saw Moses, Jesus and Abraham (on the night of my Ascension to the heavens). Jesus was (person) with red complexion, robust body and a broad chest.”** (Bukhari, Hadith 3183)**
Similar Description of Jesus (PBUH) as seen during Mi’raj and on his descent:
The thing of utmost importance we need to consider here is the fact that when the Holy Prophet (PBUH) told about the features of the Jesus (PBUH) to recognize him on his descent it went directly in line with the description of Jesus (PBUH) found in the Ahadith about Night of Ascension (Mi’raj).
ابْنَ عَبَّاسٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ …َرَأَيْتُ عِيسَى رَجُلًا مَرْبُوعًا مَرْبُوعَ الْخَلْقِ إِلَى الْحُمْرَةِ وَالْبَيَاضِ سَبِطَ الرَّأْسِ
Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet said, “On the night of my Ascent to the Heaven … I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair.” (Bukhari, kitabul bad’ al-khalq , Hadith 3000)
عن أبي هريرة أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال ليس بيني وبينه نبي يعني عيسى وإنه نازل فإذا رأيتموه فاعرفوه رجل مربوع إلى الحمرة والبياض
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (PBUH) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (PBUH). He will descend (to the earth). When you see him, recognize him: a man of medium height, complexion inclined to red and white…” (**Abu Dawud, Kitabul Malahim, Hadith 4324. **Classified as Sahih by Albani)
This proves that the man who is described in the Ahadith to descend from the Heavens near the End of Times will be same Israelite Prophet whom the Holy Prophet (PBUH) met during the Miraculous Night (Mi’raj).
All these details expose the Qadiani lies and infact upholds the unanimous Muslim belief that Jesus of Nazareth will indeed descend from the Heavens.
Hadith & Alleged Death of Jesus -10 (Two different descriptions?) | Ahmadiyya
I hope that this helped
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
^jazzakAllah brother Ibn Saddique
unfortunately i think brother kchughtai was naive in the words chosen in op. looked alot like the work of other groups which i do not believe was intended by kchughtai
but i believe the actual query was to ask if translators are translating words so people do not recognise mgaq! (died 1908) as Isa 'son of Mary'.
the video was promoting an undersiege mentality, knocking moulanas (promoters of Quran and Sunnah) as usual
what to say?
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
case closed. next......
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
my friends,
I am sorry to say but where exactly is my answer. Are you deliberately trying to confuse me. Let me state my query once again:
1) In bukhari, when Miraj was mentioned and the the holy prophet (pbuh) mentioned previous prophets for instance, Moses (as) and Isa (as)[The prophet to bani Israel]. The description is different from the description of Isa (as) who will come near end of times and will be confronted with dajjal. In short, it means there are two persons not one.
2) Old books carry different wording while new translations appear to be different. my question is why this change. Let us stay with Bukhari for a moment and bring me the original Arabic wording of the ahadith in question.
The video is pretty clear and there is no ambiguity there unless you prove that the matched ahadith are different.
So guys give a short and to the point answer and stop thinking that I am naive.
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
Why ‘faut shuda anbiya kay darmian’ made you laugh? He (pbuh) met Jesus (as) along with other prophets who are confirmed dead. No difference between the dead and living was highlighted by the holy prophet (pbuh). that was the point.
not all the book. just the books of bukhari. btw, you are an expert in digging ahadith from no where so why is it so difficult?
and yes description and complexion matters since that point to two persons not one. Focus on bukhari.
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
Peace kchughtai
Your whole argument is stemming from the idea that there are two different descriptions of Isa (AS) and that fact infers two different Isa ... well Brother Ibn Sadique did answer your question in his post it stated there are also two description of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) ... If there are two different descriptions of Sayyiduna Muhammad (SAW) then do we also assume there are two of him? No we don't ...
Descriptors - ones that people have made - should be allowed for their diversity - The Qur'an is a different matter - each word in the Qur'an is wrought with a Divine balance ... Hadith should be taken on a clause by clause basis - not hair split using each term ...
In fact if you were to describe Dajjal - you will get many similarities with Isa (AS) ... one of them being that "no one can harm him" - This applies to Dajjal as well as Isa (AS) - except the latter can kill and will kill the former.
Even if we did take the two different descriptions to be two different Isas ... then that should present a problem for you ... if you want to be term specific then why is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad not named Isa? Rather Isa Ibn Maryam? And why did the sahabah (RA) not ask which Isa Ibn Maryam (AS) ... ? At least we can see they only had a view that there was only one Isa Ibn Maryam (AS).
By grammar and logic ... We say ..
Isa ibn Maryam was reddish
Isa ibn Maryam was wheatish
Now we can assume this is a contradiction - but a true contradiction would only result if the two accounts are about the same person at the same time in the same fabric of existence. Since they are not we can say they can both be true in differing circumstances ... and leave it like that ... or as the previous hadith states one is wrong and the other right - or one is default and the other is variable.
Such as the following statements:
psyah is brown skinned
psyah went to the gym and he came out red
Quite obviously one definition is the default and the other is a variable condition based on my circumstance ... So hopefully this should rest your concerns ...
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
BTW - the theme music of the video is so jokes … It’s like something out of The Life of PI …
The video has a good point - the English translators are obviously not of the same standard as Imam Bukhari … The translators should be fair to the Arabic … and translate it as it states … :k:
You see by those translators doing this well intended type of mistranslation it gives people more unnecessary ammunition … We have nothing to hide but the problem is our translators are skilled in language but may be not in critical thinking, and they are somewhat being biased too … If the English was translated fairly my previous post answers that …
The video is a fair criticism of the actions of the translators - but it draws incorrect conclusions in the bad light of these translations …
Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
Mode of denial all the time!
I want someone to condemn the changes made in english translation first then talk about the ahadith. So who is Muslim enough to condemn what is being purposely done by scholars? or do you accept your scholars to be God and that they can never be wrong?
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
Case is not closed yet. Next
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
...
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
Mode of denial all the time! I want someone to condemn the changes made in english translation first then talk about the ahadith. So who is Muslim enough to condemn what is being purposely done by scholars? or do you accept your scholars to be God and that they can never be wrong?
Peace Mr.Popat
The translators (not traditional scholars) I can admit may have made a big blunder ... I'll comment on the video in due course inshaAllah ... I'm digging out the Arabic versions of the ahadith and I attempt to show:
a) There are many other hadith that the video has missed out that they could be speaking about
b) The commentator of the video draws inappropriate conclusions:
>> Which are:
>>>> 1) Any mistranslation is deliberate forgery
>>>> 2) Any mistranslation is designed as a cover up of the Ahmadiyya group
>>>> 3) Any mistranslation if left as it was would change the fact that Isa ibn Maryam (AS) is one person
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
Why 'faut shuda anbiya kay darmian' made you laugh? He (pbuh) met Jesus (as) along with other prophets who are confirmed dead. No difference between the dead and living was highlighted by the holy prophet (pbuh). that was the point. not all the book. just the books of bukhari. btw, you are an expert in digging ahadith from no where so why is it so difficult?
and yes description and complexion matters since that point to two persons not one. Focus on bukhari.
Peace kchughtai,
As far I remember I think I didn't read any hadith in its narrated that 'among the dead/deceased Prophets'. So I was thinking about 'death' and thats what make me laugh. Furthermore, i don't wanna derail the thread talking about 'death'.
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
alot of resentment in that sentence from kchughtai
[QUOTE]
not all the book. just the books of bukhari. btw, you are an expert in digging ahadith from no where so why is it so difficult?
[/QUOTE]
amazing really
if i may say so, very jewish
i do not disagree with a little bit of tafsir written into the translations. i agree with it. alot depends on the iman of the translator. translations should be quoted with the name of the translator. translations are known to come with a warning, translations are not to be absolutely relied upon
i think on the wording issue Muslims will be ok until they start to reject Beliefs, when people reject beliefs then the outcome will be damning
anyway i think i have a positive indicator for this theory from mughal1. so it might be worth having a look at qadiani translations at some point after looking at the issues mentioned by op
the added underlying suggestion these translations have been done to deny mgaq should be dropped, as it makes the whole issue funny and lolz. to be frank mgaq and the mirzai movement is not taken seriously enough to merit such accusation. for example everything i have personally learnt about it has been on GS! or as a result of follow-up of GS made comments
although i can see the benefits of an internal promotion of undersiege mentality within Qadianism, similar to internally portraying other Qadiani concepts as normal like what bigboi posted as sunni scholars agreeing to continuation of prophethood and they'll turn you into suicide bombers etc. these are things which are beneficial to qadianis internally but which are actually not true for the outside
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
all alledged hadith matn collected (insh Allah)
although the qadiani alledgation was between (urdu and english) translations, which is lolz, i have included arabic, then urdu and english translation (attributed to Dr. Muhsin Khan)
brown 55 (60) 649 Prophets - رَجُلٌ آدَمُ كَأَحْسَنِ مَا يُرَى مِنْ أُدْمِ الرِّجَالِ، - … I saw in my dream a man of brown color the best one can see amongst brown color and his hair was long that it fell between his shoulders…
اور میں نے رات کعبہ کے پاس خواب میں ایک گندمی رنگ کے آدمی کو دیکھا جو گندمی رنگ کے آدمیوں میں شکل کے اعتبار سے سب سے زیادہ حسین و جمیل تھا ۔ اس کے سر کے بال شانوں تک لٹک رہے تھے
Hadith - Prophets - Sahih al-Bukhari - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (??? ??? ??? ? ???)
brown 55 (60) 650 Prophets - قَالَ لاَ وَاللَّهِ مَا قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم لِعِيسَى أَحْمَرُ، وَلَكِنْ قَالَ " بَيْنَمَا أَنَا نَائِمٌ أَطُوفُ بِالْكَعْبَةِ، فَإِذَا رَجُلٌ آدَمُ سَبْطُ الشَّعَرِ، - No, By Allah, the Prophet () did not tell that Jesus was of red complexion but said, "While I was asleep circumambulating the Ka`ba (in my dream), suddenly I saw a man of brown complexion and lank hair walking between two men,…
ہرگز نہیں ۔ خدا کی قسم نبی کریم صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے حضرت عیسیٰ کے بارے میں یہ نہیں فرمایا تھا کہ وہ سرخ تھے بلکہ آپ نے یہ فرمایا تھا کہ میں نے خواب میں ایک مرتبہ بیت اللہ کا طواف کرتے ہوئے اپنے کو دیکھا ، اس وقت مجھے ایک صاحب نظر آئے جو گندمی رنگ لٹکے ہوئے بال والے تھے
Hadith - Prophets - Sahih al-Bukhari - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (??? ??? ??? ? ???)
reddish-white 88 (92) 242 Afflictions and the End of the World - رَجُلٌ آدَمُ سَبْطُ الشَّعَرِ يَنْطُفُ - …Behold, I saw a reddish-white man with lank hair, and water was dropping from his head…
رسول اللہ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا میں سویا ہوا ( خواب میں ) کعبہ کا طواف کر رہا تھا کہ ایک صاحب جو گندم گوں تھے اور ان کے سر کے بال سیدھے تھے اور سر سے پانی ٹپک رہا تھا ( پر میری نظر پڑی ) میں نے پوچھا یہ کون ہیں ؟ میرے ساتھ کے لوگوں نے بتایا کہ یہ حضرت عیسیٰ ابن مریم علیہما السلام
Hadith - Afflictions and the End of the World - Sahih al-Bukhari - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (??? ??? ??? ? ???)
whitish red 87 (91) 128 interpr dreams - رَجُلاً آدَمَ كَأَحْسَنِ مَا أَنْتَ رَاءٍ مِنْ أُدْمِ الرِّجَالِ، - ..and I saw a man with whitish red complexion, the best you may see amongst men of that complexion…
رسول اللہ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا ‘ رات مجھے کعبہ کے پاس ( خواب میں ) دکھایا گیا ۔ میں نے ایک گندمی رنگ کے آدمی کو دیکھا وہ گندمی رنگ کے کسی سب سے خوبصورت آدمی کی طرح تھے‘ان کے لمبے خوبصورت بال تھے ‘ ان سب سے خوبصورت بالوں کی طرح جو تم دیکھ سکے ہو گے
Hadith - Interpretation of Dreams - Sahih al-Bukhari - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (??? ??? ??? ? ???)
whitish-red 87 (91) 153 interpr dreams - رَجُلٌ آدَمُ سَبْطُ الشَّعَرِ بَيْنَ رَجُلَيْنٍ يَنْطِفُ رَأْسُهُ مَاءً، - … Behold, there I saw a whitish-red lank-haired man…
رسول اللہ صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے فرمایا میں سویا ہوا تھا کہ میں نے اپنے آپ کو کعبہ کا طواف کرتے دیکھا ۔ اچانک ایک صاحب نظر آئے ، گندم گوں بال لٹکے ہوئے تھے اور دو آدمیوں کے درمیان ( سہارا لیے ہوئے تھے ) ان کے سر سے پانی ٹپک رہا تھا ۔ میں نے پوچھا یہ کون ہیں ؟ کہا کہ عیسیٰ ابن مریم علیہ السلام
Hadith - Interpretation of Dreams - Sahih al-Bukhari - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (??? ??? ??? ? ???)
54 (59) 462 - رِجَالِ شَنُوءَةَ، وَرَأَيْتُ عِيسَى رَجُلاً مَرْبُوعًا مَرْبُوعَ الْخَلْقِ إِلَى الْحُمْرَةِ وَالْبَيَاضِ، سَبْطَ الرَّأْسِ، -… I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair…
55 (60) 607 - وَرَأَيْتُ عِيسَى، فَإِذَا هُوَ رَجُلٌ رَبْعَةٌ أَحْمَرُ كَأَنَّمَا خَرَجَ مِنْ دِيمَاسٍ، - … and I saw Jesus who was of average height with red face as if he had just come out of a bathroom…
55 (60) 647 (same as 646, different narrators) - رَبْعَةٌ أَحْمَرُ كَأَنَّمَا خَرَجَ مِنْ دِيمَاسٍ ـ يَعْنِي الْحَمَّامَ - …"He was one of moderate height and was red-faced as if he had just come out of a bathroom…
55 (60) 648- فَأَمَّا عِيسَى فَأَحْمَرُ جَعْدٌ عَرِيضُ الصَّدْرِ، -… Jesus was of red complexion, curly hair and a broad chest…
other usages:
Vol. 8, Book 82 (88, LaPsbA (hudood)), Hadith 839 word reddish brown used - قَلِيلَ اللَّحْمِ، سَبِطَ الشَّعَرِ، وَكَانَ
Vol. 8, Book 76 (81 TMtHT (Ar-Riqaq)), Hadith 528 word reddish white used - أَرْضٍ بَيْضَاءَ عَفْرَاءَ
.
there remains a question mark over over exactly what the like for like translation should be.
according to wiki! dr Muhsin used Fath AlBari to help translate Bukhari. of the 5 english translations we have 2xbrown, 2x whitish red, 1x reddish white translated complexion descriptions. the english translation of these hadiths does not mention ‘wheatish’ at all
the urdu translation does seem fairly uniform, but i cant translate urdu either so guys please help
the qadiani allegation is not applicable, in the main, because the narration numbered 650 has quite clearly been translated as: No, By Allah, the Prophet (SAW) did not tell that Jesus was of red complexion but said, "While I was asleep circumambulating the Ka`ba (in my dream), suddenly I saw a man of brown complexion and lank hair walking between two men,…
kchughtai do you accept this?
also Qadianis, in the video eg @ 13.15mins, have input their own tehreef in suggesting that Prophet Isa AS when described in the hadiths of the miraj would have the same complexion description as during his time with the Israelites. the descriptions given in miraj hadiths is what RasoolAllah SAW saw as his complexion during miraj, nothing more nothing less
i actually i use the work of this particular translator alot, can arabic literate brothers please tell me if he is strong or weak from the arabic matn in translating these hadith as he has? i do realise its particularly tough to translate colours knowing even in the translated modern language words will give different impression to different people. basically its seems to me the colour he has described in the five hadiths is darker (with noor) then ours
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
brother shardmanny
I have been unable to find the Arabic verses in question … It really is a maze on the Internet and with few resources For me here … i have to get w connection at home … It’s not the same in a cafe… If what you have given is correct then only some of those verses refer to a colour in Arabic… And they say verbatim … Between reddish and whitish … Literally like that … … And I wanted to look at all the dream descriptions and the prophetic ones that are not in the form of dreams … Dreams cannot be taken literally … And if we are to compromise on description we will have to take the dream descriptions as symbolic for other things rather than actual complexion. I will read what you given more carefully later inshaAllah.
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
I have come across this translation ... For tan ... And that is ... أسمر and أحمر
Which translate as brown and red ... So perhaps red colour means tan in some cases ... I think Arabic had fewer colour descriptors so they used the same description for a range of colours.
There is a term in what shardmanny has posted and it is this .... أدم But google translate thinks this is a proper noun for Adam ... I do know that Adam means flesh ... Or even flesh coloured ... And implies darkness on top of a pale complexion ... Tanned or sun- tanned would be a close modern understanding of this ... But I need to check this out further.
it is even possible that the skin of Isa (AS) is of particular importance both in quality and colour ... I think the translations imply colour, but it seems some of them are talking about substance rather than appearance, which explain the mismatch.
the clarification in Arabic seems like it is really saying that Isa (AS) was not described as having red skin colour, but tanned skin ... So my understanding is that any skin type shows noticeable red hues when it gets tanned in the sun ...
Re: Two versions of ahadith about coming Jesus(as) - forgery?
wa alaikum salaam brother Psyah
jazzakAllah
the red hue i already associate with some white skin types and egyptians/north africans
here is a picture of an egyptian, slightly exagerated red, but that just re-emphasizes the point. the painter recognised the red
“Egyptian market (digital painting)” Canvas Prints by Marilyns | Redbubble](http://www.redbubble.com/people/marilyns/works/4630797-egyptian-market-digital-painting?p=canvas-print)
or this video where every one of people exibits the red hue (video is unrelated, random)
](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RCFeP9VKw)