All three are one, but at the same time, Jesus is not the Holy Ghost, and The Holy Ghost is not God the father and so on. They are all one, but also not one...Makes alot of sense.
Your summary is correct. Robert Letham puts it like this: to exist as God is to be the Father who begets the Son and breathes forth the Spirit.Since the persons are defined...by relations of origin, it is impossible to think of a divine person unto itself,disconnected either from other persons or from the divine essence. . . . it is impossible to think of the divine essence in itself or by itself.
It is not a metaphorical statement, but it is not physical in the sense of if you have a son. In other words, the generation of the Son from the Father is spiritual and eternal, not physical and happening at one moment in time.
I always thought that its more of a metaphor, like we say that we are children of God as in creation of God.
So when Christians say O heavenly father, they are referring to God , not Jesus - right?
I always thought that its more of a metaphor, like we say that we are children of God as in creation of God.
So when Christians say O heavenly father, they are referring to God , not Jesus - right?
For Christians, God is Jesus, God is the Father, God is the Holy Spirit. "Our Father" refers to the Father, not the Son (Jesus), but that doesn't mean that Jesus isn't also God.
God can accurately be described as “one” and “three.” That is the doctrine of the Trinity. A Christian theologian named Van Til said, "Unity in God is no more fundamental than diversity, and diversity in God is no more fundamental than unity." He might compare this to mankind being unit (humans) and plurality (man and woman).
Christian theology would answer your questions as follows:
1. Although the body of Jesus was in the grave, His Godhead was everywhere. This is what Thomas Aquinas says. His body was in the tomb, his divine nature was still present everywhere.
2. He was praying to God the Father, as you see in the Christian "Lord's Prayer", "Our Father, who is in Heaven...." The Three are truly distinct, and yet truly one.
These are good questions.
Peace Joel7,
Please backup your comments with quote from your scriptures i.e. divine book as it will be more easy for us to understand.
With respect does tht what you said above means that the chrisitans have 3 Gods
**God is Jesus
God is the Father
God is the Holy Spirit.
**or these are three forms of 1 god
God can accurately be described as “one” and “three.” That is the doctrine of the Trinity. A Christian theologian named Van Til said, **“Unity in God **is no more fundamental than diversity, and diversity in God is no more fundamental than unity.”
Certainly, I can provide you with some Scriptures related to these topics. On the first question, I said:
You see this in the Bible in verses such as Luke 23.43, where Jesus is on the cross and tells the thief being crucified next to him,
"And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
(Luke 23 :: Arabic/English Online Bible)
This means that although Jesus would be dead and his body was in the tomb, his Godhead remained in paradise.
Jesus says in John 10.30,
" I and My Father are one."
This means that Jesus in his divine nature is one with the Father, but the Father and the Holy Spirit did not assume a body - only Jesus, the Son, did. Thus, the body of Jesus lay in the tomb, his Godhead was unchanged.
(John 10 :: Arabic/English Online Bible)
Certainly much more can be said about this, but this is a start.
No, Christians certainly do not have three gods! We believe the entire Bible, which is summarized in Deuteronomy 6, “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!” deuteronomy 6 :: Arabic/English Online Bible
God forbid that we should worship more than one God!
But the word “forms” is not accurate either to describe God. Although he is one, he is also three. These are not mere forms, but are essential to his being. As we often say, this is a mystery, because God is mysterious. As the book of Job (Ayyūb) says:
“Can you search out the deep things of God? Can you find out the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than heaven–what can you do? Deeper than Sheol–what can you know? Their measure is longer than the earth And broader than the sea.” job 11 :: Arabic/English Online Bible
As per my little knowledge Jesus PBUH never claimed ‘I am God and you must worship me’, or ‘I am co-equal and co-eternal with God’, or ‘you will enter the Kingdom of heaven if you believe in my blood sacrifice’. Can one accept that Jesus PBUH would have used vague language to explain so vital and highly important a matter, or leave it to the people’s own imagination and interpretation to deduce this interpretation on the basis of innuendo and subtle symoblic language? In fact this matter of the nature of Jesus PBUH and his ‘divinity’ is the product of speculation on the part of later “Church Fathers” and thelogians (as u stated above).
For a proper understanding of the teachings of Jesus PBUH, it is important to examine who he was, in wht capacity he taught, and what his mission was. The answer are given by himself as recorded int he Gospel writings of the New Testament:
“So jesus said, 'When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I am ehe, and that I do nothing on my own”. [John 8:28]
“For the Son of Man came to seek out and to save the lost”. [Luke 19:10]
In above verses Jesus PBUH referred himself as ‘son of man’ NOT son of God. Moreover it is recorded that:
“but now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God”. [John 8:40]
Yes, there are lots of things to discuss/know/share with each others. Lets see where this discussion going to be end.
:konfused:again i have problem in understanding this part
Although he is one, he is also three.
**Can you find out the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than heaven–what can you do? Deeper than Sheol–what can you know? Their measure is longer than the earth And broader than the sea."
**regarding point two if that is what god really is then why it is said in the first part he is one, he is also three, why limit to 3 only.
“From these there appears almost no evidence that the council of Nicaea made any pronouncements on which books go in the Bible, with the ambivalent exception of Jerome, or about the destruction of heretical writings, or reincarnation. However it did condemn Arius and his teachings, and the Emperor Constantine did take the usual Late Roman steps to ensure conformity afterwards. However these were not put into effect; and Arianism made an almost immediate comeback. Even Arius was recalled by Constantine.” The Council of Nicaea (Nicea) and the Bible
regarding point two if that is what god really is then why it is said in the first part he is one, he is also three, why limit to 3 only.
"The Trinity is "bi-la kaif wa-bi-la tashbih" (without asking how and without anthropomorphism). It can neither be proved or disproved by reason; to argue that it is against "reason" is simply to make oneself the judge of what God can or cannot be."
It is limited to three because that is who God is - we don't make this up, he tell us.
Lethal, I will try to answer more tomorrow if I have time - I am very rushed right now. For now, I would encourage you to continue to read the Gospel of John, chapter 8, which you quoted. It reads:
Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. (John 8:56-59) Holy Bible in Urdu - John Chapter No 8 - TeraKalam.com
Jesus is here claiming to be the same being that spoke to Moses in Exodus 3: "God said to Moses, “I am who I am.”And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’” Holy Bible in Urdu - Exodus Chapter No 3 - TeraKalam.com
Finally, in John’s Gospel, the Apostle Thomas calls Jesus God:
Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”
Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
"The Trinity is "bi-la kaif wa-bi-la tashbih" (without asking how and without anthropomorphism). It can neither be proved or disproved by reason; to argue that it is against "reason" is simply to make oneself the judge of what God can or cannot be."
It is limited to three because that is who God is - we don't make this up, he tell us.
So what is the exact definition God gives about himself in Trinity. To follow god we must know something about god otherwise it will be same as in other religions for example believing in idols, if they say the same thing like their idols forbid them to ask about them (idols) being god and just believe in that they are god. I hope you got my point.
This is what Jesus says of the Trinity;
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:18-20) Holy Bible in Urdu - Matthew Chapter No 28 - TeraKalam.com
He uses the name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (plural).
Also, in the Gospel of John, Jesus tells us that he existed before the world did:
And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. (John 17: 3-5) Holy Bible in Urdu - John Chapter No 17 - TeraKalam.com
**All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. **Is this Jesus saying about himself
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. **And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age. **All i can understand by this is Jesus is saying to the people (followers)
Jesus tells us that he existed before the world did: In this he is talking about God right.
I hope i am following all this correct. sir its just as a believer how am i suppose to believe in GOD and that Christianity is the true religion to be followed. He exists, yes agree to this and in almost all religions he exist but only in true religion we can get the real idea about him. Surely he is powerful and has no limitations like in every religion they say about their gods, is there anything that can give more clear and perfect introduction of him without creating any confusion. Jesus was send by him, i also have no doubt in that, but that 1 of three and three of one sounds really confusing it like going in circles. Hope i am making some sense to you, I just want first to know about GOD to begin my believe in his religion and i am talking about only GOD, (with respect) not Jesus or the holly spirit.
**All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. **Is this Jesus saying about himself
Yes, he is saying that of himself.
[QUOTE]
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of theFather and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. **And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age. **All i can understand by this is Jesus is saying to the people (followers)
[/QUOTE]
He is saying that the Three are One.
[QUOTE] Jesus tells us that he existed before the world did: In this he is talking about God right.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, he is talking about God and is saying that he is God.
[QUOTE]
I hope i am following all this correct. sir its just as a believer how am i suppose to believe in GOD and that Christianity is the true religion to be followed. He exists, yes agree to this and in almost all religions he exist but only in true religion we can get the real idea about him. Surely he is powerful and has no limitations like in every religion they say about their gods, is there anything that can give more clear and perfect introduction of him without creating any confusion. Jesus was send by him, i also have no doubt in that, but that 1 of three and three of one sounds really confusing it like going in circles. Hope i am making some sense to you, I just want first to know about GOD to begin my believe in his religion and i am talking about only GOD, (with respect) not Jesus or the holly spirit.
[/QUOTE]
To believe in this requires faith. The faith to believe in what God has revealed about himself. It may sound confusing to you, but as someone said, "It can neither be proved or disproved by reason; to argue that it is against "reason" is simply to make oneself the judge of what God can or cannot be, which is blasphemy. Quite simply, we will never be able fully to understand God’s nature because it lies outside our experience and knowledge."
To believe in this requires faith. The faith to believe in what God has revealed about himself. It may sound confusing to you, but as someone said, "It can neither be proved or disproved by reason; to argue that it is against "reason" is simply to make oneself the judge of what God can or cannot be, which is blasphemy. Quite simply, we will never be able fully to understand God’s nature because it lies outside our experience and knowledge."
Its really confusing sir or maybe bible study is little tough, but its really nice of you trying to explain things to me. I really appreciate that. I thought like in Quran we have four verses (**Sūrat al-Ikhlāṣ) **giving complete concept of god, Bible might also have something like that too. I am not comparing religions, i just wanted to know what god said about himself in the Bible as a guidance to his followers so they could know who their creator is.
With respect does tht what you said above means that the chrisitans have 3 Gods
