Islam is a religion that needs reform. While liberal Hindus decry the Hindu fanatics, it is very difficult to find any Muslim who will disagree with the Quran. Quran needs to be modified to enter the 20th century, let along the 21st century. Muslims in general make the worst minority, because they don’t respect rule of law. To them, it is Sharia law or the highway.
What say you?
If one is going to modify a religious book at that level then might as well end the whole religion since you already canceled part of it.
I completely disagree.
No Muslim should disagree with the Qur’an, nor does it need any updates for any century.
What makes you think that Muslims don’t respect the rule of law? Are you referrring to a particular society? In most societies, Muslims can and do follow the Sharia within the framework of the local laws.
[quote=““Captain Obvious””]
I completely disagree.
No Muslim should disagree with the Qur’an, nor does it need any updates for any century.
What makes you think that Muslims don’t respect the rule of law? Are you referrring to a particular society? In most societies, Muslims can and do follow the Sharia within the framework of the local laws.
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You made my point!
Hindu Terrorism supporters and being silent on Hindustani Govt. inhumane, genocidal activities trying to tell others what to do. Pathetic or shameful to say the least.
You’re comparing apples and oranges by comparing Muslims who believe in the Qur’an with violent Hindu extermists, who are opposed/decried by your average Hindu. A more valid comparison to them would be the so called Islamic extermists, who are also opposed by Muslims in general, as well as many Muslim governments.
Also, you’ve claimed that Muslims follow Sharia and don’t respect the rule of law, but failed to elaborate it.
[quote=““Captain Obvious””]
You’re comparing apples and oranges by comparing Muslims who believe in the Qur’an with violent Hindu extermists, who are opposed/decried by your average Hindu. A more valid comparison to them would be the so called Islamic extermists, who are also opposed by Muslims in general, as well as many Muslim governments.
Also, you’ve claimed that Muslims follow Sharia and don’t respect the rule of law, but failed to elaborate it.
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Ok, let us compare the average Hindu and average Muslim. And average Hindu will nit care if you take issue with a verse in the Gita. An average Muslim considers Quran the be all and end all. The ultimate truth. Hence the need for reform.
Comparing a human made religion worshiping self-made idols with a divine religion? OK
I couldn’t care less if you for instance, would disagree with anything stated in the Qur’an. Nothing you’ve said so far in this topic points to any need for reform in Islam. Though I will say that Muslims in general would benefit from some sort of reform, but the Qur’an itself does not need any updates, and I (or any Muslim for that matter) would reject any attempted updates anyone might try to make to it.
[quote=““Captain Obvious””]
I couldn’t care less if you for instance, would disagree with anything stated in the Qur’an. Nothing you’ve said so far in this topic points to any need for reform in Islam. Though I will say that Muslims in general would benefit from some sort of reform, but the Qur’an itself does not need any updates, and I (or any Muslim for that matter) would reject any attempted updates anyone might try to make to it.
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Glad you would not care if I disagreed with anything stated in the Quran. That is not true for vast majority of Muslims. And god forbid, someone says something negative about the leader, all hell breaks loose. So we probably need to acknowledge the problem.
All religions need reform. Including Islam.
All holy books need updating. Including the Quran
Anyone who is not Muslim already disagrees with at least some of what is stated in the Qur’an. Some examples off the top of my head:
Qur’an is very clear about tawhid, i.e. the Oneness of God - a number of people disagree with the concept. Atheists believe that that number is 0. Adherents of some other religions believe that number to be greater than one.
Qur’an states that God does not beget, nor is He begotten. Every believing Christian fundamentally opposes this belief.
I’m sure I could come up with more examples but I’ll leave it at these for now. So if you’re saying that the vast majoity of Muslims care that there’s not just one or two, but millions if not billions who disagree with what is stated in the Qur’an, then I’d say you’re wrong.
As far as all hell breaking loose if someone insults our Prophet, well whatever you think would happen, I’m sure you could expect a similar response from someone if you were to insult their parents, children or anyone or anything they cared about.
As for your opinion that Islam needs reform, I shall agree to disagree with you on that.
[quote=““Captain Obvious””]
Anyone who is not Muslim already disagrees with at least some of what is stated in the Qur’an. Some examples off the top of my head:
Qur’an is very clear about tawhid, i.e. the Oneness of God - a number of people disagree with the concept. Atheists believe that that number is 0. Adherents of some other religions believe that number to be greater than one.
Qur’an states that God does not beget, nor is He begotten. Every believing Christian fundamentally opposes this belief.
I’m sure I could come up with more examples but I’ll leave it at these for now. So if you’re saying that the vast majoity of Muslims care that there’s not just one or two, but millions if not billions who disagree with what is stated in the Qur’an, then I’d say you’re wrong.
As far as all hell breaking loose if someone insults our Prophet, well whatever you think would happen, I’m sure you could expect a similar response from someone if you were to insult their parents, children or anyone or anything they cared about.
As for your opinion that Islam needs reform, I shall agree to disagree with you on that.
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Point conceded on disagreement with Quran. Not sure if fatwa issues on Rushdie re Quran or prophet. If it was for the former, then you would be wrong ( I don’t know answer)
Re the prophet, I see that you have acknowledged all,hell would break loose. There have been instances when that happened. Which is unfortunate. You don’t go around killing people because someone insulted whom you respect. That is why Islam needs reform.
Your desire to reform Islam is exactly why I don’t believe in assigning political labels to people such as conservative, liberal, etc. Instead I go on issue by issue basis. On this particular issue your desires are the same as many of those who label themselves as conservative in the US.
Turkey is following in the same path as Libya, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria did and the fate will be the same. More important than buildings is the human behaviors, erradicating child molestations, rape, honor killings, corruption, milawat should be way more important than converting historic landmarks.
[quote=““Pakistani Prince””]
Erdogan says the masjid will remain open for all. Also the treaty of Lausanne which divided ottoman empire is due to expire in 2023 and ertugal becoming famous among masses.. Am i connecting the dots correctly?
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**So let us Consider another Fact that No One can Deny! Take the History of the Holiest Site For All the Muslims on Planet Earth!
The Holy Kaba itself had in it Stone Idols for the Longest Time since it was First Built by The Patriarch of All three Monotheistic Religions Ibrahim ES and his First Born Ismail ES
almost 2000 yrs before the Birth of Isa ES Up until Our Holy Prophet PBUH Destroyed All the Idols after Fatah Mecca in 629 AD!
So in other words the Holy Kaba Was Used as Center for Idol Worship for 2630 yrs more or less!
The Important Point let us not All Forget!
Allah Subhanahu Wa Taala tells us in The Holy Quran… they ask you where is Allah?**
Qaf 50:16
وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الْإِنسَانَ وَنَعْلَمُ مَا تُوَسْوِسُ بِهِ نَفْسُهُ وَنَحْنُ أَقْرَبُ إِلَيْهِ مِنْ حَبْلِ الْوَرِيدِ
NOW, VERILY, it is We who have created man, and We know what his innermost self whispers within him: for We are closer to him than his neck-vein. (asad)
So Muslims Can Pray anyplace on Allah SWT’s Green Earth as long as it is clean!
Yup, this is a very accurate case of how self-called left-wingers are actually the same as right-wingers. Perfect example right there. internet is filled with right wingers’ same stand which Southie is echoeng here. Talk about the similarities lol
Where did Sophia issue in Turkey go in this thread? Why can’t Moderators keep people on track? One or two posts fine but changing the track altogether?? 
That made no sense. I stated ALL religions need reform. Whereas conservatives in the US target Islam. There is a difference. Maybe if you were a liberal, you would see the difference.
There is really no need to label oneself as anything. Ones actions and thinking process automatically determines if the person is liberal, moderate or right wing. Liberals care for equality for all, right wing care onky about their community, religion, whereas moderates adopt a little bit of the liberal and little bit of the conservative.
All reform movements have started with liberals leading the way.
so yes, don’t label yourself as anything. Your actions and thinking process will determine who you are.
A second point, even if a liberals view agrees with the conservative view on one topic, that does not mean he or she is no longer a liberal. That was a false premise on your part - even though it didn’t apply to me in this cas as explained in first sentence.
Talk about ignorance and lack of comprehension. I stated ALL religions need reform, including my own, which is Hinduism Conservatives or right wingers in some countries target Islam as the only religion needing reform.
No worries, I don’t expect to you to get it, Mr. Moderate.
Well, could it possibly be your inserting “Hindu Fanatics and supporters of Modi the terrorist on this site” in one of your posts?
If you want to troll, at least do so with intelligence and wit! Can you lend me another wink please?