Re: True Face of India
Congress following the same policy of ancestral politics
Re: True Face of India
But you do claim to be a islamic republic. and all the stuff i have listed are very unislamic isnt it.
i suggest you drop this anti india propaganda for a while since you are new here. take some time to observe the type of forum this is and kind of people who post here and then start opening threads all you want.
u r asking a bit too much and u know it don't u ...... :D
Re: True Face of India
Congress following the same policy of ancestral politics
We agree on that!
Re: MBA's from abroad being recruited by Rahul (not asserting last name) Gandhi, the previous US President had an MBA.....
Re: True Face of India
you know being someone out of India Pakistan what I feel about you two is.
Its not about faults or anything.
Its about ideologies and basic society structure.
you both contradict in this matter.
And this makes it worst but IF only one of you ignores this conflict for just a second you are strong enough to do anything together.
people at your side are very talented.
Jennah Smith
Re: True Face of India
Welcome to this forum Jennah Smith. Your first post - you have started on an auspicious note!
Re: True Face of India
Well said.
And if all else fails, then there is still one thing all people of South Asia and the world can relate to. PMS..
Re: True Face of India
med911 that's just my signature :)
and thanks for appreciation.
Jennah Smith
Re: True Face of India
No links are allowed in the signatures .. and no advertising .. its called spamming
Re: True Face of India
http://www.ganeshaspeaks.com/blogImages/rahul-gandhi-congresscandidate07_21102008.jpg
It is the real face of India.
Rahul a casteist, didn’t eat food offered by Dalits: BSP
Re: True Face of India
We never claimed shining Pakistan or perfect Pakistan but your gogovernment media do it
So U never claimed to be shining Pakistani or perfect Pakistani? Fair enough. But what about Islamic republic of Pakistan? Isnt that enough to claim? The only Nation came into being in the name of Islam? Doesnt this ring some alarm? Do I need to tell U have what has been happening in Pakistan to muslims and Islam? And a muslim from Islamic republic of Pakistan is busy digging the dirt just to expose kuffar??? dont u have some better things to do bro?
Re: True Face of India
All Hindustanis getting upset about currently what is happening to Dalits; being in the News......
Opression of Minorities is bad no matter where it happens..........
Question to ask here is IF Hindus of lower Caste are shunned in Public....
Then what status do Muslims have in India, since Muslims are obviously considered even Lower than Dalits?
Can our Indian Guppies respond to this Question?
Thanks!
[QUOTE]
Question to ask here is IF Hindus of lower Caste are shunned in Public....
[/QUOTE]
No way Sindsagar, however I dont deny cast bias in few isolated sections of hindu society, but its a very serious and non bailable offense even to sport this kind of sentiment in public. And the thing U should consider while claiming such thing is that Ms. Mayawati, a dalit, is elected chief minister of the most Populous state of INdia, ie Uttar Pradesh. The state which has provided almost all the Prime Ministers of India.
Then what status do Muslims have in India, since Muslims are obviously considered even Lower than Dalits?
[QUOTE]
Then what status do Muslims have in India, since Muslims are obviously considered even Lower than Dalits?
[/QUOTE]
Half baked knowledge.
Re: True Face of India
Not to beat a dead horse, but I would make this one point. To be fair southie, this im sure is the response any intelligent educated Hindu would give. But what of uneducated and superstitious Hindus?
*There are stories passed down from elders in our village of Hindus who would walk on opposite sides of the road in order to avoid their shadows mingling with those of Muslims. Or of those Hindus who if you went to their homes, would serve their Muslim guests on Palm leaves or the like and reserve the plates for their Hindu guests. Or they would fill their buckets on opposite side of the well to avoid mingling with the Muslims. So to many Hindus, perhaps not as well versed even their own faith, Muslims were often and perhaps still are considered to be among the lower caste, if unofficial. *
There are those who draw up these fantasies of pre Partition India, as if we all lived together as brotherly as conjoined twins, but Religious discrimination was and is a very real thing.
Still though, you are right, baggage from the caste system is still prevalent among Pakistanis, especially among villages where everyone knows everyone else s family background. But beyond the villages, the anonymity of the city means many otherwise low caste clans etc do relatively well...
Med the reason behind all that is laid in non vegetarian and vegetarian food. since muslims were considered to be meat and cow eating individuals, so strictly vegetarian hindus had no option but to stay away from muslims. Just like U can find many muslims staying away from restaurants who would serve forbidden stuff.
Re: True Face of India
I have a few questions for Indians here (and no disrespect intended):
I know that the government/many people are trying to change casteism, but I wanted to find out how much skin color and caste have an overlap? For example, my friend is a Kashmir Pandit and looks like a Kashmiri, whereas I ran in to a Brahmin from the South who looks like someone from that region. I used to think that caste had some linkages with skin color, but that is not the case?
Many Indian Muslims are converts from hinduism. In the smaller villages do they still retain their "social standing" pre-conversion? I realize that their great-great-great grandfathers may have converted to Islam, but since they have lived in the same village, would they move up or down or stay the same within the social matrix?
Finally *and a tough question, anyone know the approximate breakdown of the castes? For example 20% brahmins, 30% X, Y, Z?
Re: True Face of India
I have a few questions for Indians here (and no disrespect intended):
- I know that the government/many people are trying to change casteism, but I wanted to find out how much skin color and caste have an overlap? For example, my friend is a Kashmir Pandit and looks like a Kashmiri, whereas I ran in to a Brahmin from the South who looks like someone from that region. I used to think that caste had some linkages with skin color, but that is not the case?
There was an blog in dawn few days ago. it talked about how language is a stronger bond than religion. It seems to be the case. People usually flock with their own type. marathis with marathis, gujratis with gujratis etc. if same type is not available then they stick with people who is similar to their own culture.
To be honest first time i met south indians personally in usa. people in india dont travel too far, not atleast in smaller cities. Castes now a days dont play any role in educated class or even middle class.
I am sure even you would be more comfortable with an Indian than an Malaysian or eritrian muslim.
PS. it may seem like indians are disconnected from each other but generally there is no difference of opinion throughout the country regarding major issues and destination and goal of the country.
- Many Indian Muslims are converts from hinduism. In the smaller villages do they still retain their "social standing" pre-conversion? I realize that their great-great-great grandfathers may have converted to Islam, but since they have lived in the same village, would they move up or down or stay the same within the social matrix?
Infact most of the indian muslims are converts from hinduism ( i think so are pakistanis). Muslims do have caste systems themselves in few states and in smaller cities. culture is more of less same within a state despite of different religions.
My dads friend is a thakur muslim and he is a minister in BJP. When Bhairo Singh Shekhawat (a BJP legend) was alive all the thakurs used to touch his feet, be it bjp thakur or congress thakur, be it hindu thakur or muslim thakur. Even Indian muslims have different culture depending on the state they live in.
Also muslims dont fall in the wraps of hindu caste system per se. in small villages muslims are given status according to their occupation. a cleaner muslim would be treated same as a cleaner hindu, a shop keeper muslim would be given same status as a hindu shopkeeper.
mostly caste system depends on your occupation. if you are a lower caste and a policeman then everyone treats you like a king.
- Finally *and a tough question, anyone know the approximate breakdown of the castes? For example 20% brahmins, 30% X, Y, Z?
no idea about that. i would assume that there would be majority of lower caste since there are more working class people than businessman , priest or a thakur.
Re: True Face of India
**There was an blog in dawn few days ago. it talked about how language is a stronger bond than religion. It seems to be the case. People usually flock with their own type. marathis with marathis, gujratis with gujratis etc. if same type is not available then they stick with people who is similar to their own culture.
To be honest first time i met south indians personally in usa. people in india dont travel too far, not atleast in smaller cities. Castes now a days dont play any role in educated class or even middle class.
I am sure even you would be more comfortable with an Indian than an Malaysian or eritrian muslim.
PS. it may seem like indians are disconnected from each other but generally there is no difference of opinion throughout the country regarding major issues and destination and goal of the country.
**
Thanks for the responses. I can see what you mean about language, because it also represents culture/background.
**
Infact most of the indian muslims are converts from hinduism ( i think so are pakistanis). Muslims do have caste systems themselves in few states and in smaller cities. culture is more of less same within a state despite of different religions.
My dads friend is a thakur muslim and he is a minister in BJP. When Bhairo Singh Shekhawat (a BJP legend) was alive all the thakurs used to touch his feet, be it bjp thakur or congress thakur, be it hindu thakur or muslim thakur. Even Indian muslims have different culture depending on the state they live in.
Also muslims dont fall in the wraps of hindu caste system per se. in small villages muslims are given status according to their occupation. a cleaner muslim would be treated same as a cleaner hindu, a shop keeper muslim would be given same status as a hindu shopkeeper.
mostly caste system depends on your occupation. if you are a lower caste and a policeman then everyone treats you like a king.
**
I see. So you're saying that occupation has trumped the older caste perspectives.
**
no idea about that. i would assume that there would be majority of lower caste since there are more working class people than businessman , priest or a thakur.**
Alright. So it sounds like there is a skew towards the lower classes.
Appreciate the info!
Re: True Face of India
^^ No problem man. you asked honest questions and i tried to answer them honestly. thats the beauty of GS :)
Re: True Face of India
I have a few questions for Indians here (and no disrespect intended):
- I know that the government/many people are trying to change casteism, but I wanted to find out how much skin color and caste have an overlap? For example, my friend is a Kashmir Pandit and looks like a Kashmiri, whereas I ran in to a Brahmin from the South who looks like someone from that region. I used to think that caste had some linkages with skin color, but that is not the case?
since kaka gave his opinion,here is one from south indian perspective
it's a myth to think only brahmins are fair in colour. infact i can show you lower caste hindu from south india looking as fair as any kashmiri pandit(not common though) its a another myth to think south india are black in colour and
north being fair.south india is hugely mixed up,it's impossible to classify them in one colour group,50-60 percent would be brown in colour same as rest of india(not features) ,we have four states,each states have their own
language,culture e.t.c people blindly think every south indian as tamils,i come from Reddy community from Andhra pradesh who are generally fair in colour and we are not brahmins,even though in my ID cards it's mentioned i come from
forward caste,historically we must be some farmers some say tribal chief or village head no idea,because they were only four castes at that time brahmins(priests),kshatriyas(kings ex:rajputs),vysyas(bussiness ),sudra(reaming all
caste which my caste comes under),but my community are leading in every political and bussiness field in my state infact in india reddys are one of richest community yet historically we were sudras and i can show them looking fair then many brahmins (not all but it's mixed up,same goes for brahmins)
I have a few questions for Indians here (and no disrespect intended): - Many Indian Muslims are converts from hinduism. In the smaller villages do they still retain their "social standing" pre-conversion? I realize that their great-great-great grandfathers may have converted to Islam, but since they have lived in the same village, would they move up or down or stay the same within the social matrix?
Hmmm
there are lot of conversion to christianity at village level in south india then islam , who still follow their caste,we had chief minister of my state from reddy community who is christian btw
in south india i don't think many converted to islam,we didn't have any mughal rule here,except for few conversions in malabar region in kerala and mysore in karnataka,and in my home state in hyderabad were mostly from outside.they came with nizams few from turkey few from north india
my teacher shagufta looked like someone from turkey :P she was complete gora kind,this people mixed with local kind long back.they don't follow any caste system in my home state ,you have to ask keralite or kannada guy about their states,
in my home town we have muslims living here from hundreds of years came here during nizam time,,we visit there place during ramzan for nice briyani :P same goes for them during diwali, they speak urdu at home and local language outside i saw this trend eveywhere in south india except in chennai this people spoke only tamil.
in south india you won't find any huge religious clash except when i was kid use hear few in hyderabad,now hyderabd is turned into major IT hub in india
Re: True Face of India
and i agree with kaka
younger generation is really changing,hope in next 20-30 years we can rid of this caste system at village level :)
Re: True Face of India
**since kaka gave his opinion,here is one from south indian perspective
it's a myth to think only brahmins are fair in colour. infact i can show you lower caste hindu from south india looking as fair as any kashmiri pandit(not common though) its a another myth to think south india are black in colour and
north being fair.south india is hugely mixed up,it's impossible to classify them in one colour group,50-60 percent would be brown in colour same as rest of india(not features) ,we have four states,each states have their own
language,culture e.t.c people blindly think every south indian as tamils,i come from Reddy community from Andhra pradesh who are generally fair in colour and we are not brahmins,even though in my ID cards it's mentioned i come from
forward caste,historically we must be some farmers some say tribal chief or village head no idea,because they were only four castes at that time brahmins(priests),kshatriyas(kings ex:rajputs),vysyas(bussiness ),sudra(reaming all
caste which my caste comes under),but my community are leading in every political and bussiness field in my state infact in india reddys are one of richest community yet historically we were sudras and i can show them looking fair then many brahmins (not all but it's mixed up,same goes for brahmins)
**
Honestly, most Pakistanis have more interaction with North Indians, and people in the South are pretty "foreign" to us. I mean I can't tell the difference between Sri Lankans and many southern Indians. I think its mostly ignorance.
Another reason why I thought that skin color was involved was due to the Aryans setting up this system to maintain their distinctness, but it doesn't sound like this is the case at all.
**
Hmmm
there are lot of conversion to christianity at village level in south india then islam , who still follow their caste,we had chief minister of my state from reddy community who is christian btw
in south india i don't think many converted to islam,we didn't have any mughal rule here,except for few conversions in malabar region in kerala and mysore in karnataka,and in my home state in hyderabad were mostly from outside.they came with nizams few from turkey few from north india
my teacher shagufta looked like someone from turkey :P she was complete gora kind,this people mixed with local kind long back.they don't follow any caste system in my home state ,you have to ask keralite or kannada guy about their states,
in my home town we have muslims living here from hundreds of years came here during nizam time,,we visit there place during ramzan for nice briyani :P same goes for them during diwali, they speak urdu at home and local language outside i saw this trend eveywhere in south india except in chennai this people spoke only tamil.
in south india you won't find any huge religious clash except when i was kid use hear few in hyderabad,now hyderabd is turned into major IT hub in india**
Good info. Sounds like many Muslims came from elsewhere in South India. Also there are less sectarian tensions in the South.
It's really too bad that we all can't engage in constructive dialogue -- I mean I didn't know this much about the actual situation of castes in India.
Oh one final question: I know that some Hindu nationalists were complaining that Indian Muslims get a more favorable treatment in india, so does this mean that in SOME places they qualify as "backward/disadvantaged" castes.
I feel like the Hindu to Muslim conversion is a really touchy subject on both sides of the border, but the fact is that it must have happened. Correct me if I am wrong but if we combine the populations of Pakistan + India + Bangladesh = 1/3 Muslim? There is absolutely NO WAY that many people came from "outside."
Re: True Face of India
^^ No problem man. you asked honest questions and i tried to answer them honestly. thats the beauty of GS :)
Agreed! I am actually very encouraged by India. Although I feel very strong about the Kashmir issue, I am not willing to let the hate poison the relationship.
I really don't want to hijack this thread but believe that we need to develop the economies of both countries by further opening up trade -- we won't become best of friends overnight, however the uplifting of our peoples should be priority number one.
I had the chance to briefly meet with your PM Manmohan Singh during Oxford's UK-India trade forum, a true class act. If his family had not migrated to India, he'd be a Pakistani :D