Triangular Series (AUS-IND-NZ)

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by UMAIR316: *
But its the same throughout the world, conditions change in all D/N matches, South Africa/Sharjah/Aus
Fleming and Ponting are questioning the unstable condition in just the first innings.
[/QUOTE]

That's nonsense, Conditions are always going to be different in the morning and afternoon, evening and night - No matter what you do. This is not the first time Day matches are being played in India, No one said a thing for last 25 years and now all at a sudden Mr. Fleming discovers that Conditions are not same in the first 15 overs. Fleming is looking for excuses after his stupid decision to bat first in Faridabad.

Are you telling me that Conditions are same in Pakistan throught the day ?

and If the D/N match conditions are same everywhere in the world, then Why were you all cribbing when Pakistan lost to England in the World Cup ?

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Karina - You and I both know the point he is trying to make. :)

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Kiwis refuse to practice citing security reasons](www.cricketnext.com)
By S S Ramaswamy
Mumbai, November 4, 2003

The security-obsessed New Zealanders refused to practice at the Cricket Club of India's Brabourne stadium here this afternoon as the Board of Control for Cricket in India could not arrange for police security. The Kiwis are staying at a suburban hotel in Mumbai and wanted police escort to the CCI, which is in downtown Mumbai.

Interestingly, it was an eleventh hour request from the New Zealanders to have nets arranged in Mumbai and the BCCI had little time to arrange for police escort.

The British royalty in form of Prince Charles is also in Mumbai today and a large number of police personnel are busy organising his security, and that might have been the reason the BCCI could not get policemen to guard the Kiwi cricketers.

The Kiwis have had nasty experiences in the sub-continent, and that's why security ranks very high when they visit the sub-continent. It may be recalled that a bomb explosion had taken place near their Karachi hotel the last time they were in Pakistan. The blast had shattered some of the window glasses of the hotel there and the Kiwis had abandoned the tour. They had a similar in Sri Lanka, where a bomb explosion took place near the Galadari Hotel in Colombo.

Even in the last World Cup, the Kiwis refused to play in Kenya because of a bomb blast that took place about a month before the match was scheduled to take place. They forfeited the points and that was one of the reasons they couldn't qualify for the semi-final stage.

::: S S Ramaswamy

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by UMAIR316: *
To my knowledge this is the first time New Zealand played @ Faridabad (could be wrong) and conditions there were much different then any other venues.
Venues in Northen part of the county seem to have moisture this time of the year, maybe thats the reason.
But Fleming is right in his criticizim, the Indian team should be made to play in those conditions.
The difference between this scenario and compared to the one back in New Zealand in january was that both teams had to play on bad pitches, while teams batting first in Fardiabad and Pune especially in the first 15 overs have the disadvantage.
[/QUOTE]

I disagree with you completely. i am sick and tired of goras coming to sub continent and bitching and moaning about "horrendous pitch condition". the indian groundskeeper can not be responsible for kiwis loss. lets say kiwis batted first in faridabad, that would've given the kiwis the advantage. its not like india changed the pitch condition after the toss. sometimes its just about how the coin lands. let me say something about people who bitch and moan about pitches. kiwis should not complain about indian pitches. india makes pitches that gives them the advantage. someone please point out to me how that is "unfair". I equally condemned ganguly for bitching about new zealand pitches before WC. NZ made pitches according to their strength. THATS CALLED HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE BUDDY. who the hell are these idiots to tell us how to make our pitches.

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Asif and Karina--

Seems you two are hell bent on taking everything personally. Even after India australia match, i said that india got the worst conditions to bat and that shuldnt be so, atleast the Pitch should remain the same throughout a oneday match and thats clearly not happening this time in india which is quite surprising considering the batting paradise they usually prpare for oneday internationals.

Asif, kindly let my point be open, dont need to wink at karina, i know my point was but like always you seem to take it negatively for teh sake of longggggggg arguments.

Karina- I dont care if Kiwis go through to the finals or not, i just want Australia to lose this cup, weather its through india or through kiwis. So for the umpteenth time, stop making assumptions :)

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OMG - what a thriller game - it kept me over the edge all the time - the New Zealanders should blamed themselves for the loss - Craig McMillan as a wicket-keeper is a disappointment - First he took a difficult catch of Andy Bichel - and then dropped an easy catch of Brad Williams in the final over which could have been the winning point for Kiwis - and the story doesn't ends here - on the 5th ball of the Final over there was another dropped catch - New Zealand did everything they could have to win the match but at the last moment they choked - in one pharse this match can be concluded. - 'catches win matches' .

Clumsy really from New Zealand towards the end - but still pretty bad actually from Australia - the top order failed yet again! - tho it's good to see Andrw Symonds to be back in his form - and what the hell was with the 38 extras conceded? - Come on - get it together! anyhow i reckon New Zealand may just sneak through but India might have edge as Nehra and Ganguly are back in the squad - Australia are through to Final but playing really bad.

this is pretty bad actually from Fleming and Ricky Ponting - the BCCI actually sent out the itinerary a month before the series began - and neither have raised the quality of pitches issue - sour grapes!

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Saby Dear - If it's a D/N game, you say team batting second had tough conditions, If it's a Day Game, you say Team batting first had tough conditions. Now - Only option we have is to play cricket in a DOME. Nz should refuse to play in India until then. Infact they should cancel their tour right now for the injustice we have done to them.

The fact is that you dont want Aussie to win, and India winning this series is something you will never want. That leaves us with NZ as the team you are supporting which has lost both its matches one due to poor captaincy and the other due to their shoddy fielding. So, Somehow you want to blame Indian conditions for their misery( as if this is the first time a ODI tourny is being played in India). I still wonder why the NZ board is not saying anything, after all they approved the itinerary, didn't they ? NZ/AUS both are used to play in fast/swinging conditions, aren't they. They should feel at home on these pitches..NO ??

As for your point - You know it, I know it and I am sure Karina knows it too. So let's give that a rest and get back to whinning.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *
Saby Dear - If it's a D/N game, you say team batting second had tough conditions, If it's a Day Game, you say Team batting first had tough conditions. Now - Only option we have is to play cricket in a DOME. Nz should refuse to play in India until then. Infact they should cancel their tour right now for the injustice we have done to them.

The fact is that you dont want Aussie to win, and India winning this series is something you will never want. That leaves us with NZ as the team you are supporting which has lost both its matches one due to poor captaincy and the other due to their shoddy fielding. So, Somehow you want to blame Indian conditions for their misery( as if this is the first time a ODI tourny is being played in India). I still wonder why the NZ board is not saying anything, after all they approved the itinerary, didn't they ? NZ/AUS both are used to play in fast/swinging conditions, aren't they. They should feel at home on these pitches..NO ??

As for your point - You know it, I know it and I am sure Karina knows it too. So let's give that a rest and get back to whinning.
[/QUOTE]

Asif, why do you assume that i dont want india to win?? I said earlier too that i would want Australia to lose even if India wins. Thats acceptable for me. Gosh you would make a horrible lawyer, i.e. everything based on assumptions. And based on these asumptions you wanna play in dome?? well thats your call, go enjoy your playing there.
Indian conditions have always produced best ODI pitches, i just am surprised why not this time, not just for Aus-NZ matches, even in matches invloving india, conditions are not similar for teams batting first and those batting second.

Secondly, i argue for day night games in SA, ther conditions are horrible in night games, its fine here in india, pakistan, sharjah and Australia, i NEVER said that day night games are bad, they are unfair alright in SA and i stand by this point. But in subcontinent and in Australia, D/N matches are fine. I dont agree with anyone saying that D/N matches are always unfair. They are not.

Assumptions, assumptions ,.. ahh give THEM a rest.

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Saby, I dont want Cricket to be played in a Stup!d dome. I just suggested an alternative for the unjustice being done to this KIWI team by us. There is nothing wrong with Indian conditions - It's Kiwi batting which is the problem.

As far as the D/N condition in teh 2nd India/Australia match is concerned, Let me tell you this, INDIA lost the game because of its Pathetic Batting, Bowling & fielding and not because of tough conditions. All of its main batsmen (except Sehwag) were out playing silly shots. Sehwag was out because he didn't offer any shot.

Btw - Tell me this, If a captain, who got to take a look at the pitch before the TOSS, couldn't figure out how it was going to behave for the match, How was BCCI supposed to know it without even taking a look at the pitch ? BCCI must have heard it from the angels in the sky because the schedules were drawn more than a month ago, No ?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *
Saby, I dont want Cricket to be played in a Stup!d dome. I just suggested an alternative for the unjustice being done to this KIWI team by us. There is nothing wrong with Indian conditions - It's Kiwi batting which is the problem.

As far as the D/N condition in teh 2nd India/Australia match is concerned, Let me tell you this, INDIA lost the game because of its Pathetic Batting, Bowling & fielding and not because of tough conditions. All of its main batsmen (except Sehwag) were out playing silly shots. Sehwag was out because he didn't offer any shot.

Btw - Tell me this, If a captain, who got to take a look at the pitch before the TOSS, couldn't figure out how it was going to behave for the match, How was BCCI supposed to know it without even taking a look at the pitch ? BCCI must have heard it from the angels in the sky because the schedules were drawn more than a month ago, No ?
[/QUOTE]

Oh i dont need to give you a reminder on preparing pitches and predictions. do i?? Because your post just needed a reminder on predictions and preparations for pitches.

BCCI wont know how the pitches would behave, sometimes it happens but why the hell are curators for? They should be fired on ASAP basis if they are not doign what they are told to do.

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Saby - Once again you are being naive here - the pitches are helping Seamers not because they are prepared to do that but because of the moisture in the air and the pitch. The moment it dries up, pitch starts behaving normal batting track. BCCI has prepared sporting wickets for both TESTs & ODIs. If the BCCI really wanted to prepare dusty wickets like they did in the past, they would have done it for the TESTs as well.

Fleming did a big mistake by mis-reading the Faridabad Pitch. He should have known it better. After all he is supposed to be the best captain in the world and he should have checked the the result of the past matches played at Faridabad. :) If anyone need to fired then it is Fleming - Who failed as captain and as batsman both.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *
Fleming did a big mistake by mis-reading the Faridabad Pitch. He should have known it better. After all he is supposed to be the best captain in the world and he should have checked the the result of the past matches played at Faridabad. :) If anyone need to fired then it is Fleming - Who failed as captain and as batsman both.
[/QUOTE]

O bhai keyun Fleming k pechey parh gaeey ho? Aisee tanqeed ker rahey ho as if he was the previous maingater of your recent mangaiter :)

chill bhioon chill. We will see in v.near future k who is the winner of the cup :)

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *

The fact is that you dont want Aussie to win, and India winning this series is something you will never want. That leaves us with NZ as the team you are supporting which has lost both its matches one due to poor captaincy and the other due to their shoddy fielding. So, Somehow you want to blame Indian conditions for their misery
[/QUOTE]

Aha, Saby you got to agree that Asif has got 'the point' you were trying not to make! LOL

Ok Saby, I'll give it a rest but for heavens sake stop moaning about the pitches. In the Ind/Aus game the comms kept talking of how the pitch was turning into a dust bowl - but Indian pitches have very often turned into dust bowls (think of WC 96 and Calcutta semis). Still it was possible in both the matches for India to win if only the batsmen had been v v careful. Bottom line is batting on any difficult pitch is a test in itself and Faridabad and Pune were easy compared to Hamilton.

Btw, the newly relaid pitches are the work of a Kiwi so Fleming should be blaming his countrymen I think.:)

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *

That's nonsense, Conditions are always going to be different in the morning and afternoon, evening and night - No matter what you do. This is not the first time Day matches are being played in India, No one said a thing for last 25 years and now all at a sudden Mr. Fleming discovers that Conditions are not same in the first 15 overs. Fleming is looking for excuses after his stupid decision to bat first in Faridabad.

[/quote]

Don't need to get too offended there.
Ponting won the match but he backed Fleming.
Eventhough Australia didn't lose, but he still admitted that conditions were messed up.
For the past 25 years, no double standards were used, if Australia and NZL were made to play, India should have also played and lets see how the mighty Indians would have performed.

[quote]

Are you telling me that Conditions are same in Pakistan throught the day ?
[/quote]

Even if they are, Pakistan wouldn't let the 2 neutrals play in such horrible conditions while play its own matches on batting friendly conditions to enhance its batting.

[quote]

and If the D/N match conditions are same everywhere in the world, then Why were you all cribbing when Pakistan lost to England in the World Cup ?
[/QUOTE]

Most of us were complaining due to bad umpiring, yes England did lucky to win the toss and so did Ponting in the previous match.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rana no.1: *

I disagree with you completely. i am sick and tired of goras coming to sub continent and bitching and moaning about "horrendous pitch condition". the indian groundskeeper can not be responsible for kiwis loss. lets say kiwis batted first in faridabad, that would've given the kiwis the advantage. its not like india changed the pitch condition after the toss. sometimes its just about how the coin lands. let me say something about people who bitch and moan about pitches. kiwis should not complain about indian pitches. india makes pitches that gives them the advantage. someone please point out to me how that is "unfair". I equally condemned ganguly for bitching about new zealand pitches before WC. NZ made pitches according to their strength. THATS CALLED HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE BUDDY. who the hell are these idiots to tell us how to make our pitches.
[/QUOTE]

I don't mind if India makes taylor made pitches to help their batsmen, my arguement is that they should also make similiar pitches when 2 neutrals are playing each other.

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^ Haha I don't BELIEVE this! I can credit Fleming with being bitter about winning the toss and like a schmuck electing to bat, but I would have thought you'd have more brains than to echo his words.

This is what Fleming said '"So much rides on the toss. At least in New Zealand it seams for 100 overs, here it seams for 25 and after that it's a belter."

Umair, when you say it's unfair to make Kiwis bat in horrible conditions, I presume you mean that it's unfair that the horribleness of conditions do not continue for the whole game! Gimme a break!

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *
^ Haha I don't BELIEVE this! I can credit Fleming with being bitter about winning the toss and like a schmuck electing to bat, but I would have thought you'd have more brains than to echo his words.

This is what Fleming said '"So much rides on the toss. At least in New Zealand it seams for 100 overs, here it seams for 25 and after that it's a belter."

Umair, when you say it's unfair to make Kiwis bat in horrible conditions, I presume you mean that it's unfair that the horribleness of conditions do not continue for the whole game! Gimme a break!
[/QUOTE]

Please read Fleming's interview, he said the conditions are not good for the first half of the innings and then it turns normal.
My arguement is, why aren't the Indians made to play in these conditions.
Why give the home teams good batting tracks but when 2 neutrals play you give them junk.

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And this is what Chandu Borde the curator has to say in his defence -

http://www.cricinfo.org/db/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2003/NOV/554399_TVS2003-04_02NOV2003.html

Everything in cricket revolves around the pitch - but not according to Chandu Borde. Borde, who has now moved on from chief selector of the Indian team to the curator in charge of the Jawaharal Nehru Stadium in Pune, is puzzled by all the fuss being made about pitches these days.

“I don’t know why the cricketers these days are so hell-bent on having pitches made to their liking. With all the protective gear a player is decorated with these days, why should he bother about the pitch?” He then elucidates his point, his hands thumping his elbow, grabbing his head, and clutching his chest, as he talks about the elaborate equipment that players wear these days. “We never had these in our time,” he says. “They [the modern cricketers] have got these things to protect them – a beautiful abdomen guard, a chest guard, then the helmet. And they’re worried about a little grass on the pitch?”

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well i don’t think india has anything to worry about in that regard. balls in india threatens a batsmans knee more than their upper body. helped along by the “competence” of indi “fast” bowlers. well umair if new zealand and aus are made to play in different condition than indis than that is wrong. but i don’t know that they are, i don’t know much in this regard.

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Can someone inform Chandu Maama that no one is complaining about the safety of the players but the conditions.