Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
Sheraz CT... if someone had actually said "EVERY hadith is authentic" then he (and you for once) might have had a point...
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
Albaani is not trustworthy!
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
also narrated by Ubadah ibn al Samit (r)
six or seven depending on whether you count some of the blessings together as one or read them as separate blessings…
also recorded in Musnad Ahmed, Musnad al Bazzar, and al Tabarani’s Mu’jam al Kabir
also…
the chain in Musnad Ahmed is graded hasan/good by Hafiz al Mundhiri (d. 656 AH) in al Targhib (2049)
Hafiz al Haythami (d. 807 AH) said in his Majma al Zawaid (5:293) that the chain in Musnad Ahmed and al Tabarani’s Mu’jam al Kabir contain only narrators graded trustworthy and reliable (thiqah)
The next obvious question is: what constitutes martyrdom? certainly not suicide bombings and flying planes into buildings full of office workers I wouldn’t have thought… but that’s a topic for another thread I dare say, if it hasn’t been discussed already…
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
gupyguy, the question is , Do you believe that Quarn is Word of Allah and Allah has prmoised hat he will protect it from alteration?
I dont care how many refrences you provide for the Hadith, the fact remains that they were coompiled by mere mortals just like you and me. One needs to look at the chain of the hadith to see how many people/mouths it has gone through before being compiled. Do you think that there is any chance that one of those people had misunderstood the message or added or ssubtracted/forgotten something in the saying?
Prophet:saw: was about implementing deen of Allah, not talking about the sexual pleasures of this world or world after it. It has been stated many times in Quran that knowledge of future is with Allah and Allah only.
Please dont argue with me after reading this ayath.
يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ السَّاعَةِ أَيَّانَ مُرْسَاهَا قُلْ إِنَّمَا عِلْمُهَا عِنْدَ رَبِّي لا يُجَلِّيهَا لِوَقْتِهَا إِلا هُوَ ثَقُلَتْ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأرْضِ لا تَأْتِيكُمْ إِلا بَغْتَةً يَسْأَلُونَكَ كَأَنَّكَ حَفِيٌّ عَنْهَا قُلْ إِنَّمَا عِلْمُهَا عِنْدَ اللَّهِ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لا يَعْلَمُونَThey ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: “The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you.” They ask thee as if thou Wert eager in search thereof: Say: “The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not.”[size=2]Al-Qur’an, 007.187 (Al-Araf [The Heights])[/size]
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
depends what you mean by “He will protect it from alteration”… protecting the words alone and leaving everyone to impose his/her own interpretation on them irrespective of the Prophet’s (saw) explanation and teaching is not how i would understand Allah’s guarantee of protection…
and who wrote down, memorised and transmitted the Qur’an to us… angels?
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
^ Is Allah's word not enough for you?
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
^ yes, that's why i obey His Prophet (saw) and take him (saw) as an example as He has asked me to...
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
gupguppy, if you can come up with a better explaination of why should we defer to quran in matters like afterlife and heaven, than ALLAH help you because you are going against his words.
They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: “The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you.” They ask thee as if thou Wert eager in search thereof: Say: **“The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not.”**Al-Qur’an, 007.187 (Al-Araf [The Heights])
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
His example was not written down immediately my friend. I wonder how much knowledge do you really have about islam. Quran was immediately written down as revealed. It was only compiled later, but all the ayaths were written down as they were revealed to our beloved Prophet:saw:, if you cannot see the difference between the word of Allah and some Alim than, there is not much I can say to change your mind.
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
If this piece of info was based on a hadith, then why are muslims vehemently dismissing the item as a falsity?
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
not all are PCG. i dunno about its authenticity myself, but as I understand it certain ahadith are thought of as sahih and not sahih by different people and this is based on one of them.
its certainly not a certainty though.
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
That is what I have a tough time grappling with, cause when it was compiled certain verses, chapters were switched. So as far as authenticity is concerned that is sort of in my opinion invalid (from a precision perspective).
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
right...so we will accept the weirdest of hadiths as "sahih"...but when one of 'em hits the negative global limelight, we will dismiss it as "uh yeah, that's probably not true..."
Why not then just explain it as someone said here - that they're not virgin women - they are servants...
ah well, I guess that sounds bad too.
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
Just because the media has made it sound a horrible thing (ie. martyrs getting married to 72 hoors) does not make it as such. As Muslims, we should not be afraid of accepting that which is part of our deen just because non-Muslims might have issues with it. I can understand if members here have issues because they belong to other sects or have different beliefs about accepting ahadith, but a Sunni Muslim should not have any doubts about sahih ahadith. Just because one does not like al-Baani or whatever the case happens to be, does not make the hadith weak or gharib. It is a sahih hadith and will remain so. The Sunni Muslims who still have doubts about this hadith can consult any Sunni scholar and I'm sure the answer will remain the same, insha'Allah.
PCG, since you're the one who initially raised the question, does the hadith answer your query?
ravage, you know ahadith don't get classed as sahih/gharib/da'eef/etc. over night, nor do they vary from one hadith scholar to another. Still if you think such is the case, then please consult a Sunni scholar and do share your findings.
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
Perhaps I have missed hoors being servants part. Can you please point it out for me? Thanks…
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
This actually plays right into as to what seems pleasing and appeasing is Ok otherwise “I don’t know about this”.
My thread “Super Natural” someone said something to the effect ‘if the Super Natural would say things that are ok will be god otherwise not’.
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
Why does he have to consult only a sunni wahabi, why discriminate?
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
Verizon, I know there must be differences on this ahadith amongst different sects, however, I highly doubt that there would be any amongst Sunni Muslims over this hadith.
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
Do you have any example for the above where a saheeh hadeeth was rejected for whatever negative global limelight? Or was it just your imaginery thoughts?
Re: Tracing back the 72 Virgins Lie
could you kindly prove for everyone here ‘o knowledgeable one’ that the “Quran was immediately written down as revealed”?? let’s see how far you can get trying to prove that one