you may believe that al qaeda was not involved in killing bb and you may be even right. rest of the world however aint buying what you guys are peddling. to the rest of the world, bb’s murder has al qaeda’s fingerprint all over it and bb’s killing will toughen the resolve of global community to act against al qaeda. this means even if jehadi sympathisers are successful in removing musharraf, war against al qaeda wont stop.
if the govt after musharraf refuses to act against al qaeda, americans will simply turn pak into iraq after gulf war one which means pak will be subjected to global sanctions along with ariel bombardment of jehadi infrastructure. only thing jehadi supporters can do in return is to send suicide bombers to d.c. or london which pretty much means pakistanis living abroad will be thrown in internment camps much like japanese americans were during wwii. while the treatment might sound harsh, in the end it will be fully justified. people not interested in living like human beings dont deserve to get treated as such.
I for one hope that somebody cleans out the terrorist mess along our borders for us, because our leaders are never goign to have enough balls to do it. Especially after Benazir's assassination, I doubt anybody is going to step up and take a tough stance against them. The Army could and would, but they have been weakened by the 'Anti Govt', 'Anti Musharraf' sentiment.
A limited invasion of Western areas of Pakistan is called for!
Why somebody? Why not the incomeptent Mush did it? Why ppl defending the loser? Why ppl come here hailing him with all the attributes, like greatest leader etc etc bull..? Were they waiting for this proof of his incompetency????
I for one hope that somebody cleans out the terrorist mess along our borders for us, because our leaders are never goign to have enough balls to do it. Especially after Benazir's assassination, I doubt anybody is going to step up and take a tough stance against them. The Army could and would, but they have been weakened by the 'Anti Govt', 'Anti Musharraf' sentiment.
A limited invasion of Western areas of Pakistan is called for!
i have very little faith in the ability of american troops to deal with terrorists in pak. the best people to tackle jehadis is the pak army which needs political cover and americans know this. even as i type this, americans will be heavily involved in selecting the new ppp leader who will be told to take part in the election and to support actions against jehadis after new set up emerges. given ppp has no strong back up leader, new leader will have to count on american support in order to get to power. dont forget without bhutto leading the party, senior ppp leadership needs to come to power desperately to hold on to its support base. power will enable buying of supporters who have no reason to support ppp without a bhutto heading the party.
^^ not many bhuttos are left to lead the party, Balwal and Bakhtawar are zardaris by all means, and people of Pakistan must realise these are political parties, where leadership does not belong to a particular family. Unfortunately this is not the case, here party leadership stays in a family and in the event where nobody is left to lead the party, party goes to astray.
Our so called political leaders never prepare a backup leadership and they make the party revolve around them. same is the case with PPP. Americans can try, but where u have this level of unorganized parties, it is hard to keep other leaders intact.
I think PPP will be divided into groups and like Muslim League it will borrow alphabets and every cult will claim to be true follower of Bhutto ( ofcourse to get the votes)
Why somebody? Why not the incomeptent Mush did it? Why ppl defending the loser? Why ppl come here hailing him with all the attributes, like greatest leader etc etc bull..? Were they waiting for this proof of his incompetency????
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Shame on such retards!!!**
No need for such name callings. Sir Dig A Lot made a civil post and he deserves a civil response.
Anyways, I agree with the thread starter. If we can't unite against a common enemy, than we don't have much hope either way. Personally I don't see anyone achieving anything of significance as it pertains to terrorism on our borders. I don't trust anyone to have any magical solutions to our problems with terrorism. Bhutto and her supporters were just giving us lip service. First of all, America hasn't achieved anything of significance against these terrorists in the first place. Allowing them to launch attacks against Taliban through Pakistan is surely going to start another round of civil unrest because we all know how people feel about Americans on Pakistani soil.
In addition, what if America fails to achieve anything (as that is surely what is going to happen)? What then? We're going to have more problems on our hands. Anyone who believed that Bhutto had the solutions to our problems is delusional. If Musharraf can't solve the problems (which he can't) than I seriously doubt that people like Bhutto or Nawaz sharif with their "proven track records" would have achieved anything else.
^ Musharraf has been in power for 8 years (longer than BB and Nawaz), and he has a proven track record too, which is nothing less than failure, as evident by his growing unpopularity with the masses.
i cant think of many third world countries with effective political parties. morever its especially unrealistic to expect emergence of western style political parties in countries with literacy levels as low as in south asia. in countries like india, pak and bangladesh, political parties are essentially cult of personalities. ppp will therefore suffer after bb's demise but otoh, if party can offer a realistic path to kursi to its supporters, then it may be able to retain a large part of its leadership. politicians get into the business to get to power and ppp politicians pain will have very little option of getting to kursi without the help of the govt.
^ Musharraf has been in power for 8 years (longer than BB and Nawaz), and he has a proven track record too, which is nothing less than failure, as evident by his growing unpopularity with the masses.
actually musharraf is unpopular because he is seen as america's poodle. pakistan certainly benefits by cooperating with the americans although dumb awam is too stupid to realise this. thinking has never been a strong trait of muslim awam especially those fed on diet of jehad.
actually musharraf is unpopular because he is seen as america's poodle. pakistan certainly benefits by cooperating with the americans although dumb awam is too stupid to realise this. thinking has never been a strong trait of muslim awam especially those fed on diet of jehad.
Theres many more reasons than just him offering sajdaz to the white house. That hes been doing since 2001, but his real unpopularity sprung up in the last 2-3 years.
Theres many more reasons than just him offering sajdaz to the white house. That hes been doing since 2001, but his real unpopularity sprung up in the last 2-3 years.
another reason for unpopularity is inflation but that is also beyond the control of musharraf. with the rise of china there is huge scramble for resources which has driven price of oil to nearly $100/barrel and in tandem caused a rise in soft commodity prices like wheat. awam is obviously to jahil to identify global trends so it will support those people offering simplistic solutions. bottomline, at this time, awam cannot be trusted to take the right decision. guided democracy is the best solution.
another reason for unpopularity is inflation but that is also beyond the control of musharraf. with the rise of china there is huge scramble for resources which has driven price of oil to nearly $100/barrel and in tandem caused in the rise of soft commodity prices like wheat. awam is obviously to jahil to identify global trends so it will support those people offering simplistic solutions. bottomline, at this time, awam cannot be trusted to take the right decision. guided democracy is the best solution.
A democracy without him is the best solution. P.S. atleast now you admit that his amreicanism isnt the only cause of the immense hatred he has.
In all those third world countries, there are no effective parties because of the millitary interference every now and then. Pakistan is worst when it comes to this game. Here the millitary has torn apart the country instead of saving it and its keeping the rest of the piece for its own good. Need proof?
A democracy without him is the best solution. P.S. atleast now you admit that his amreicanism isnt the only cause of the immense hatred he has.
actually musharraf's popularity has held up pretty well when you consider that musharraf has been in power for 8 years during which time america has attacked two muslim countries and inflation has been around 10% over the last couple of years. ultimately given the state of pak society, no leader has the ability to cure problems in 2-3 years. what pak cannot afford however is the mistakes of the 1990's.
For those who think America hasn't already invaded pak/afgan borders, is fooling himself.
Taliban will never give up fighting, thats not a problem for them. They're trained from birth, no matter which enemy it is.
The problem at hand is the disunification of our land, and our people. The work of external forces to divide us, and put friction amongst brothers.
We need to stand united as did Ali r.a. and Muawiyah r.a. when at war with each other, and a messenger from Rome came with aid to help Ali r.a., to which he was denied, and a threat was given to Rome, that if they were to interfere in muslim's affairs, they would unite and wipe out Rome itself.
In all those third world countries, there are no effective parties because of the millitary interference every now and then. Pakistan is worst when it comes to this game. Here the millitary has torn apart the country instead of saving it and its keeping the rest of the piece for its own good. Need proof?
no thanks, i dont need need proof especially from crappy pakistani newspapers. i earn a living by investing in third world countries and i know more about them than almost anyone in pak or in the west. as far as military interventions go, pak is a fairly typical third world country.
For those who think America hasn't already invaded pak/afgan borders, is fooling himself.
Taliban will never give up fighting, thats not a problem for them. They're trained from birth, no matter which enemy it is.
The problem at hand is the disunification of our land, and our people. The work of external forces to divide us, and put friction amongst brothers.
We need to stand united as did Ali r.a. and Muawiyah r.a. when at war with each other, and a messenger from Rome came with aid to help Ali r.a., to which he was denied, and a threat was given to Rome, that if they were to interfere in muslim's affairs, they would unite and wipe out Rome itself.
actually rome had been pretty much wiped out by the time khalifas came to power. the real centre of power then was constantinople and msulims did not capture that for another 500 years. btw another example that can be used is mongol invasion of baghdad. given the state of the ummah, i would bet on americans destroying ummah rather than the other way around.
actually rome had been pretty much wiped out by the time khalifas came to power. the real centre of power then was constantinople and msulims did not capture that for another 500 years. btw another example that can be used is mongol invasion of baghdad. given the state of the ummah, i would bet on americans destroying ummah rather than the other way around.
Exactly. The Roman Empire had been divided in two by that time. Not that this fact holds much relevance to any topic at hand but it always irks me whenever someone mentions that the Muslims captured Rome, as if it was the same Rome at the height of its power. That would be like capturing Hawaii and saying that you captured America.
Exactly. The Roman Empire had been divided in two by that time. Not that this fact holds much relevance to any topic at hand but it always irks me whenever someone mentions that the Muslims captured Rome, as if it was the same Rome at the height of its power. That would be like capturing Hawaii and saying that you captured America.
young muslim ummah achieved significant early victories against a much, much stronger byzantine empire. but during that time, muslims were led by people like hazrat umar and khalid bin waleed. these leaders have very few peers in history much less in the current muslim ummah. to comare the likes bin laden and zawahri with likes of khalid bin waleed is so stupid that it cannot be described in words. does not stop jehadis from day dreaming though.