Touching non-Mehrams and Modesty

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

"One of the fundamental principles of Islam is to establish a system of virtue, goodness and justice. For this reason Islam teaches both men and women in order to secure such a society. Amongst other things it disciplines the human urge for the opposite sex so that both sexes can live in pure wedlock and have full control over their beastal desires. To achieve this objective Islam has a code of behaviour. Breaching these codes of principles may resultantly endanger the purity and goodness of society. This code protects, wards off evil inclinations and bad influences. "

What does Islam say about touching (and looking & mixing freely) at/with non-mehrams? What do the Quran and Sunnah say about it?

I would really appreciate it if someone would post something from the Quran and from the instructions of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw). I also do not want to turn this discussion between Muslims and and people of other faiths. I kindly and respectfully request non-Muslims to refrain from this discussion.

**The Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam is reported to have said, “Every religion has a characteristic. The characteristic of Islam is modesty.” (Ibn Majah.)

He also said, “Verily modesty and faith are inter-related. If one is taken out the other diminishes simultaneously”. (Bayhaqi) **

May Allah increase our knowledge and make us firm on the right path.

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How about when you go for a job interview or something of that sort and the guy wants to shake your hands? Is it okay or is our religion really strict about that?
If it's not permitted at all, then how can I refuse the handshake without offending the other person?

3

i just say it…sorry i dont “shake hands” while smiling and trying not to look rude and keep the other person feeling comfortable. I know it may be awkward, but they dont seem too alarmed since i wear hijab so they already are aware i have different believes and following different practises.

“sorry i dont shake hands”…sounds funny:frusty: whatelse can one say?

4

^
same do i ....
yeah sounds funny ..... but no option !! :)

5

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Afia: *
^
same do i ....
yeah sounds funny ..... but no option !! :)
[/QUOTE]

Who says there aint no option?? There are four major mazaahib in Islam, i.e. four major schools of thought on Islamic Law. One out of the four is for Shia'ites. Out of the other three, two allow shaking hands or touching a member of the opposite sex.

If you're shaking hands for a job interview, will you be turned on? If you will, youre sick, if you wont, youre not doing anything to violate modesty.

Yell at me everybody!

6

Can’t we just talk about pure Islam without madahibs? Quran and Sunnah are there, and have guidelines. By the way, madahib’s are four for Sunnis, whereas the shiite is besides these four madahibs.

Its not a question of getting turned on or not. In this way why not sit, chat and hug a women. Will you be turned on??? Or why not kiss her. Its just a kiss! :nono1: Some may argue that it has nothing to do with geting turned on!

Islam cuts the root of every evil. Why do you in the first place want to shake hands on the job interview. We are Muslims, and have a distinct identity. We do not have to follow each and everything the West does. Is shaking hands that important? What does Islam say about it?

7

I don't know any hadiths on rules of interaction between both genders but I only know this verse from the holy Quran which says:

''Say to the believing men that **they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. ''

[24:30]

Looking at and mixing with Non-Mahrams freely is out of the question because of the above verse. And IMO, there are really no set rules of how to interact with the other gender except what is mentioned in the above verse. I don't think you need anymore instructions because this verse explains it all--> "lower your gaze and guard your modesty!"

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CurruptAngel: *
I don't know any hadiths on rules of interaction between both genders but I only know this verse from the holy Quran which says:

''Say to the believing men that **they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. ''

[24:30]

Looking at and mixing with Non-Mahrams freely is out of the question because of the above verse.
[/QUOTE]

Looking and MIXING?? A message about the GAZE can only be implied to LOOKING! Where does it mention mixing?

'Lower your gaze' means 'Dont check'em out!'! Do you check out every girl you talk to?

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Dear Islamabad:

Can’t we just talk about pure Islam without madahibs? Quran and Sunnah are there, and have guidelines.

  • There is no such thing as pure Islam. Quran and Sunnah are interpretetd differently by everybody. If you believe shaking hands is forbidden, you are automatically following the madaahibs that support it. If you believe it isn’t forbidden, then you automatically begin to follow the madaahibs that support it!

Can’t we just talk about pure Islam without madahibs? Quran and Sunnah are there, and have guidelines.

  • If you’ll leave the Madaahibs, you’ll have serious problems when saying the Namaaz! There’s no way you can pray without following one of them! The Koran leaves the topic alone, and the Sunnah has various contradicting accounts out of which we do not know for sure which one is correct. If we follow any one way, we are following a madhab or fiqh and leaving the others.
  • By the way, madahib’s are four for Sunnis, whereas the shiite is besides these four madahibs.*
  • I said there are four MAJOR madaahibs! I did not say there are no other madaahibs than the number I mentioned. Kindly consider others as learned as yourself, if not more, do not belittle them.

In this way why not sit, chat and hug a women. Will you be turned on???

  • Actually I dont necessarily get turned on by that, so I sit, chat and hug women when I feel like, and don’t when I don’t feel like.

Or why not kiss her. Its just a kiss! :nono1:

  • Youre doing what is called ‘‘Zehni Ayaashi’’ in urdu.

*Islam cuts the root of every evil. *

  • Islam is popular in Arabs, and recently the Pathans are thinking of implementing the Shariyyah too. It is interesting that both these nations are known for their practice of homosexuality. Will you then avoid all contacts within two males, and disallow shaking hands with them too?
    If cutting the root of the evil is the intention, then why did God not create angels instead of men, who are not capable of doing evil??

It is very very sad that you guys think the only form of contact and emotional attatchment that can exist between a man and a woman is sexual!! Open your minds up!! The world is about more things than sex!

10

This hasn't got much to do with the topic I guess, but when I was little we were often told that even a female vioce shouldn't be heard by strangers??? We had this taqreer of some maulvi sahib who would say that you should not talk nicely to strangers, so they wouldn't like you or your voice. I'm not sure what to think about that. But my Auntie used to tell us also about a story/hadith (?) that Aysha was reciting verces from the Quran and the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) passed by, he heard her voice outside, because of a whole or something in the wall of their home and closed it, by putting a piece of rock or something on it? I don't remember it exactly. I could be wrong.
But I was thinking, if this is true about the voice of females, then same goes for touching non-mehrams. On the other hand, people (males) used to come to Aysha for advise after the prophet (pbuh) had passed away. So her voice was heard by them. I'm not sure what to think of it. Or maybe I'm making it too complicated.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Paaga| |nsaan: *

Who says there aint no option?? There are four major mazaahib in Islam, i.e. four major schools of thought on Islamic Law. One out of the four is for Shia'ites. Out of the other three, two allow shaking hands or touching a member of the opposite sex.

If you're shaking hands for a job interview, will you be turned on? If you will, youre sick, if you wont, youre not doing anything to violate modesty.

Yell at me everybody!
[/QUOTE]

pagal insaan...actually i said no options ...coz i try to stick to basics n try to apply the rulings from one school of thought ...that savse me a lot of trouble .....so ...whatever i follow tells me of no options ....got it ? :)

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You call this zehni ayashi? Do be positive sometimes! Who is doing ayashi by hugging and touching??? I am even ashamed to discuss this with you.

For your information, Islam is popular in 1.5 billion Muslims all over the world. Arabs are less than 20 % of the total Muslim population.

Go and do some research before saying things. You need to see the love for Islam of Malaysians, Iranians, Pakistanis… Actually all Muslims love Islam, its just that they have different understandings.

As far as following Imams is concerned, trust me you can survive without them. May Allah bless their souls and raise their degrees in heaven. They have done very important work, but the real source was still Quran & Sunnah.

Don’t also try to divide Islam in sects and madahibs. Yes they have their place but only to the extent of explanations of the practices of the Prophet :saw: and all are right. Only a narrow minded person can make the madahibs a big issue.

If I find that the Prophet :saw: did a particular thing, I follow it and do not look at which imam has said it. It is about time Muslims mature their minds and forge unity!

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Narrated by Zayd ibn Talha ibn Rukana
Transmitted by Maalik (Mishkat)

The Prophet (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wassallam) said, "Every deen has an innate character. The character of Islam is modesty." [Mursal Form - 5090]

Narrated by AbuHurayrah
Transmitted by Ahmad, Tirmidhi (Mishkat)

The Prophet (Sal-allahu-aleihi-wassallam) said:"Modesty is part of faith and faith is in Paradise, but obscenity is a part of hardness of heart and hardness of heart is in Hell." [5076]

Hazrat Umar (R.A) once suggested to the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam that the wives of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam should observe the veil as many differing persons of differing manners and natures visit the houses of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam. The Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam himself found this a desirable suggestion however, he was unable to turn the suggestion into a practicality as the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam was in wait of divine revelation. Shortly afterwards the revelations of Hijaab were revealed successively.

The first of the revelations concerning Hijaab is as follows :

*"Do not enter the houses of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam unless you have been granted permission." Surah Ahzaab. *

Hazrat Ali (R.A) narrates that once he was in the presence of the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam when the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam questioned, "Tell me what is the most worthy act of a woman?" Upon hearing this all the Companions of the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam remained silent. Hazrat Ali (R.A) further reports that when I returned to my house I forwarded the same question to Hazrat Fatimah (R.A). She replied, "A woman should not see any man nor should a man see her." Hazrat Ali (R.A) says, "I then related this to the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam and he stated that Fatimah is my beloved child, for this reason she has understood properly." (Musnad-e-Bazzaar)

*Hazrat Aa’isha (R.A) narrates that on one occasion a female fellow Muslim wanted to give a letter to the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, the letter was delivered to the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam from behind a curtain. (Abu Dawood, Nasai and Mishkaat) *

Hijaab from a blind person

*Hazrat Umme Salamah (R.A) narrates that once Hazrat Maimoona (R.A) and I were in the presence of the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam when Hazrat Abdullah Ibne Umme Maktoom (R.A) arrived. As he was blind it never occured to us that it was necessary to observe hijaab, therefore we remained seated. The Holy Prophet SallallahuAlaihi Wasallam ordered us to observe hijaab. I replied "Oh Prophet of Allah he is unable to see us." Upon hearing this the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam said, "Are you both also blind? Are you not casting your sight upon him?" (Mishkaat, Tirmizi and Abu Dawood) *

The Holy Quraan says:

**"Oh Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw over them their jilbaabs (cloaks). That in the least so that they be recognised and not be molested." (Surah Ahzaab)

"And remain within your homes and do not make an exibition ( of your selves) like the displays (of the immoral women) of former times of ignorance." (Surah Ahzaab) **

The Quran proclaims," Do not approach near fornification."

T
*he Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam said, "He who adheres to my Sunnah at a time when my Ummah has become corrupt will obtain the Thawaab of a hundred martyrs." *

Not only women but men should also lower their gaze. When you lower your gaze would you shake hands??? Why should you look into the eyes of any women and vice versa, when Allah clearly commands to lower your gaze. It is quite clear from this ayat what to do. Even then if you insist upon following non-Muslims and your personal desires, than may Allah guide us all!

14

"And follow what that which is revealed to you from your Lord. Verily, Allah is Well-Acquainted with what you do." 33:2 The Holy Quran

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Paaga| |nsaan: *

Who says there aint no option?? There are four major mazaahib in Islam, i.e. four major schools of thought on Islamic Law. One out of the four is for Shia'ites. Out of the other three, two allow shaking hands or touching a member of the opposite sex.

If you're shaking hands for a job interview, will you be turned on? If you will, youre sick, if you wont, youre not doing anything to violate modesty.

Yell at me everybody!
[/QUOTE]

Paagal insaan u and me are thinking on the same wavelength...
Wht possible harm could a handshake do!?...
Why do u ppl always have to go after the little things....
"oh if I shake hands with a stranger..is it haram?"....
Use your brains for once too...Allah gave us tht as well...

16

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Paaga| |nsaan: *

Looking and MIXING?? A message about the GAZE can only be implied to LOOKING! Where does it mention mixing?

'Lower your gaze' means 'Dont check'em out!'! Do you check out every girl you talk to?
[/QUOTE]

Let me ask you a question: If you lower your gaze AND guard your modesty then can you really mix freely with someone from the other gender?!

I'm not saying that shaking hands is haraam or halal. I don't think it's even mentioned in Quran or hadiths. All I'm saying is that we are told to lower our gaze and guard our modesty! I did shake hands with my manager after I was interviewed, couldn't resist coz he was a Non-Muslim and doesn't know about my religion but no I didn't mix freely with him and I didn't have to either...:)

17

I think not willing to shake hands at a job interview is going too far, but that's just me. A solid handshake is important.

18

i have refused several times to shake hands (but politely),.....guess what ...i always recieved respect
n once when i really felt it may prove bad was when i took my driving test n refused to shake hands or reveal my face to examiner .....:)
but thanx to Almighty ....it brought no bad luck to me

Allah helps those who help themselves :)

19

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Afia: *
i have refused several times to shake hands (but politely),.....guess what ...i always recieved respect
n once when i really felt it may prove bad was when i took my driving test n refused to shake hands or reveal my face to examiner .....:)
but thanx to Almighty ....it brought no bad luck to me
Allah helps those who help themselves :)
[/QUOTE]

That's great that you have received respect. However, there are many out there who probably didn't receive the same respect you did. I'm sure there were women who lost their oppurtunity for a certain position because of not shaking hands, or lost business as a result of not shaking client's hands at meetings, etc. It goes both ways.

20

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fret Wizard: *

That's great that you have received respect. However, there are many out there who probably didn't receive the same respect you did. I'm sure there were women who lost their oppurtunity for a certain position because of not shaking hands, or lost business because of not shaking client's hands at meetings, etc. It goes both ways.
[/QUOTE]

fret ...thats the point where we lose our faith
as believers we believe nothing can happen without the will of Allah ....,if He has chosen a place for me no authority in the world can stop me from acquiring that ....but if thats not chosen for me no matter how much i try

infact , i learnt my lesson on my driving test

when i took the first time ...i was too hesitant to refuse from uncovering my face ...so i shamefully admit ...tyhat i revealed it just coz i had a fear that if i would say so ....he might get angry etc n i will lose the chance ,....hehe ...i was sooo wrong ....coz i tried not to create any trouble ...n i was declared failed in 3rd minut of my test ....unbelieving

second time ...i just refused n said if its so uimportant ...any of your female colleague can verify .....n they did so ....n i passed

so the bottomline is .....if Allah wants something for us it will happen ...n vice versa :)