Re: Too much Matam ?
noone slashes other folks during matam. :-o and your right a better way is to donate blood, and many centres do just that, by having hussaini blood banks program where you can donate blood if you wish.
Re: Too much Matam ?
Aslam alkium
All praises are due to Allaah . Allaah is creator of heavens and earth ...and worship is alone for Him.
The orders of Islam comes from Quran and Sunnah ..... we dont find act like Matam nor in Quran neither in Sunnah . The act is purely a innovation and only carried out by Shias . Iranian influence and methedology cannot be graded as any tradition or act by Islam .
Re: Too much Matam ?
I am not aware of that much detail but they never forbid it either. But what I know is that the imams of Ahlulbayt [as] certainly used to commemorate the tragedy of karbala.
Re: Too much Matam ?
Dont ever open mouth without doing homework. Now if I reveal the 'revered' names who did perform the act of matam then you will have to pass the edict of being an innovator against them (which I know cannot even happen due to double standards).
Re: Too much Matam ?
This is one of the strange objection by those who oppose the act of mourning for Ahulbayt [as]. And I always tell them that you dont even have right to ask/comment to mourn for such and such people whilst you yourself do not mourn. I cant express how much unethical is this to ask others ‘hey why dont you mourn the death of such and such’ while he hiself is in opposition to the act of mourning. 
Re: Too much Matam ?
are you saying that since we don’t mourn we can’t ask you why you don’t mourn on other people’s shada? Since you said that remembering the Shada of Ahulbayt keeps the Islam alive then why not morun all the muslim Shaheed? Why only Ahulbayt’s Shada considered to be grieving? Why Hazrat Sumia’s (RA) Shada not sad and terrifying? Do you even know how she was murdered? Why not mourn on the shadas of muslims in Guzwa Badar? Were not the muslims? Didn’t they sacreficed their lives for Sake of Allah? Do we know more islam than Prophet(SAW) or any of the sahabs? If what you say is true “that remembering them keeps islam alive” wouldn’t all the sahabs and Prophet(SAW) would have mourned on the shada’s of all the sahbas because it would have kept islam alive?
Please for God’s sake, say thing that make sense and please open your eyes. Just in case if you don’t know anything that’s harmful to your body is haram in Islam (e.g. trying to commit suicide, smoking, taking drugs, beating yourself etc etc.)
**
I cant express how much unethical is this to ask others ‘hey why dont you mourn the death of such and such’ while he hiself is in opposition to the act of mourning.
**And that’s why we don’t pick and choose. We have no rights to decide which shaba was superior than the other because they all had something that pleased Allah. Either mourn everyone and no one, since Prophet(SAW) said moruning on someone’s death is maximum 3 days. So we don’t mourn and when they are shaheed then we shouldn’t mourn at all because that person is Allah’s beloved slave and he sacrificed his life to please Allah. Rather we should be proud of ourselves and say alhamdulillah because such muslims still exist.
Re: Too much Matam ?
?
I am saying that its not just a question rather it always contain a ‘taunting’ effect and my reaction was against the same.
As for the martydom of other people (like you mentioned), no one is saying that they were of no value but the whole point is that the shahadath, the tragedy fallen on Imam Hussain [as] was of an unique nature, in terms of:
- His death was the only one which was foretold much much earleir to Holy Prophet [s] explicitly.
- Prophet of Islam [s] was the first person to weep over the death of Imam Hussain [as] much earlier (during Imam’s childhood).
- He [s] treated the tragedy differently, therefore we see He [s] gave the sample of the sand of Karbla to Hadrath Um Salmah [ra] so that she would come to know about the tragedy as it accurs on its turning red.
- It was only Imam Hussain’s shahadath that even jin had to mourn. (Al Bidayah wal Nihayah narrated by Um Salmah [ra])
- It was only Imam Hussain’s shahadath that according to Shaykh Qadir Jilani , 70000 angels will keep weeping for him. (Ghuniya Talbeen)
- It was only Imam Hussain’s shahadath that even sky had to weep (Sawaiq Muhriqa, Tafsir Dur al Manthoor).
etc
Re: Too much Matam ?
Ok I may agree.
OK again I may agree.
Please stay quiet/shut up and read the others guppies which I might add have more information before passing judgement.
And welcome to GS. Have a nice day.
Re: Too much Matam ?
What about Hazrath Hamza, what about Hazrath Usman whose head was cut off whilst reading Quran precisely surah Baqarah :238
Get the sources from Usool Al Kafi or Nahjul Balaga, I want stuff from Shia’s.
Is this also hadeeth narrated by Prophet Mohammed sala Allaah alayhi wa sallam. Thats the one in bold
Why did only Abdul Qadir Jilani narrate this incident, and why is according to Qadir Jilani and not Prophet, how did Qadir Jilan know the unseen he wasnt one of your imams.
Did any of your imams mention this in your most Authentic Book.
Thanks, from next time when you talk about mourning. Let us also know the dates coz i dont wont to miss out on such important solemn occassion as I have to answer to Allaah, why is that only you all want to take all the Good deeds, by mourning and matam, let us also take some Good deeds so that I can tell Allaah, i also did hit myself.
If you are mourning for amal, its fine coz on the Judgement day, the balance of weight might help us to enter Paradise.
Astagfiruallaah—> thats for me.
Re: Too much Matam ?
slave of allah, and Boy-Nice: if you want a historical debate over maatam, feel free to start another thread. dont divert this one.
Re: Too much Matam ?
Am I deviating, Ma Mooli I am replying to the post of boy nice. Well if thats the case I am sorry, infact I am out of this thread.
Re: Too much Matam ?
interesting question codey.
mooli you argue that crying is emotionally liberating etc, but really is that a good enough reason to make something a part of religion? I know there is shia basis for muharram but having a majlis for each imam seems a little baseless?
I would also ask whether we shias regard deaths of certain people (karbala wasnt just about people dying, so I wont include that) much higher than the deaths of others? Whether people dying in an earthquake or people dying in millions in africa isnt cause for greater mourning than the regularized displays of sadness over one person's death 14 centuries ago?
Re: Too much Matam ?
mooli you argue that crying is emotionally liberating etc, but really is that a good enough reason to make something a part of religion? I know there is shia basis for muharram but having a majlis for each imam seems a little baseless?
Im not sure its part of religion as it is the shia identity. afterall its not wajib to cry or do maatam..is it? hence it was a natural process of mourning that followed from kerbala.
Also, these majalises are baseless only to the extent that you get nothing out of it...otherwise no majalis can be considered as such if it brings you closer to islam.
[quote]
I would also ask whether we shias regard deaths of certain people (karbala wasnt just about people dying, so I wont include that) much higher than the deaths of others? Whether people dying in an earthquake or people dying in millions in africa isnt cause for greater mourning than the regularized displays of sadness over one person's death 14 centuries ago?
[/quote]
I think the two are like comparing apple to oranges. but was wondering, what makes you think kerbala was different to the death of other Imams?
Re: Too much Matam ?
Not everything that is a part of religion is wajib. No sunni will tell you that its wajib to do tarawih, yet it is a part of their religion right?
Karbala, yes I can understand. But shias have it for every imam, whether or not any other event is associated with them all year.
When we give basis for matam we cite bibi zainab arranging majalis for imam hussain, but were there any majalis for imam ali, or even imam hasan?
baseless would be without basis derived from either Quran or Sunnah (including that of imams). whether or not something brings you closer or further away from Islam is a subjective assesment, it doesnt further your argument.
Lots of differences. No children killed, no people deprived of food and water for days, no women and children captured and paraded through streets, no chadars being snatched, no killing of an entire household before their eyes etc etc.
It is a common answer for when the question of why have matam over karbala when being a shaheed is a high honour to say that we mourn for all the above and not the actual shahadat.
after all if circumstances werent what they were and all of what happened afterwards hadnt happened then there would be no cause to mourn the death of a warrior?
Re: Too much Matam ?
I think most of us in this thread are from US and according to U.S constitution’s first amendment everyone has right to the freedom of religion.
Moderator, I think this thread need your attention please close it otherwise Muslim will be fighting on minor issue.
Grow up my fellow Muslims brothers/sisters stick to your course of direction and let the others follow theirs.
Re: Too much Matam ?
I agree with you, actually once I was talking to someone, I was pretty much saying the same thing and the person didn’t like it, they probably thought i am not a good muslim, i don’t have knowledge on shiaism, i am bhatki howi, and they have more akedat then me…so after that I just stopped saying discussing things like this.
Re: Too much Matam ?
Lusi yeah its tough when discussing things like that with people too entrenched to reconsider positions.
Re: Too much Matam ?
I have Lebanese Shia friend, I asked him about matam. He informed that it's not done in Lebanon and he has never heard anybody practicing the ritual.
Now my question would be why in one area it is followed and the other not? Is it more like a cultural thing?
I am sorry if I offend somebody, thats not the intent.
Re: Too much Matam ?
ravage
so whats the problem if shias have majalis for every imam? majlis basically means gathering? every imam suffered..no imam died a natural death...whats so wrong if we gather on their death anniversery and mourn our infallable imams
Re: Too much Matam ?
sheraz i wouldnt stop you, nor would i refrain from participating if that hurt my family's feelings. it is a valid question and i'd like the answer though, isme kia harj hai?