Too Everybody, Muslim,Hindu.....

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Asalaam-u-alaikum to you all

Well its Sunday evening at 8.15pm GMT and I find myself going through the various threads in the Religion forum. And there seems to be a common link between all the threads, in that someone somewhere is putting down someone’s beliefs of calling people Kafirs blah blah blah… The other point of interest is that all the long threads are also the ones which involve mud-slinging, worthless arguments and basically dis-respect of other human beings.
My argument(suggestion ?) is that rather than fighting amongst ourselves (hindu,muslim,sunni,wahabi,shia…) don’t you think that we should try more towards being better people ourselves ?. I look around and all I see is people screwing each other for money,wealth, posessions or fame. No-one seems to be interested in doing the right thing any more ?. We all dont hesitate for a second to cheat someone out of their hard earned money or to give false testimoney (in and out of the courts), no-one stops to think that thier actions or words could be hurting someones feelings or upsetting them. What’s the point in arguing who belongs to the truer faith when we ourselves don’t follow the teachings of our own faith ?.
Speaking from my own experiences, I know of many people who follow the five pillars of Islam, they go to the five daily prayers and all that…but yet they continue to lie, cheat, hurt people and deceive along every step of the way. We should all follow our system of belief to the best of our abilities, but you must also remember that in doing so, it should make you into a better human being. Speaking from a Muslim point of view, Allah has no need of our prayers or worship, it makes no difference to him if we all stay in the Masjid all day and worship him 24/7 or if we all go out and sin in every way possible.

To the best of my knowledge, every faith/religion has rules and regulations which govern your interaction with other humans. If we choose to ignore these teachings and instead waste our time hurting/insulting and degrading others then whats the point in making the claim, ‘I am a great, Muslim,Hindu,Jew…or what-ever’ ?.
There seem to be many threads in this forum which argue about who is going to heaven and who is not.

My mother told me a story once and unfortunately I cannot verify its authenticity, however it is a beutiful story…it goes that before the partition of India & Pakistan, when hindu Sikh & muslim lived side by side, a hindu child was eating something infront of a muslim house-hold. The parent of this child saw this and scolded the child, and asked him ’ Do you not know that it is the month of Ramadan for the muslims ?’ …show your respect and dont eat in front of them while they are fasting’. For this action the Hindu farther was forgiven by Allah and was given enterance to Heaven.

You guys can derive what you wish from this story. But what I learned from it is that enterance to heaven or hell is in the hands of the Almight Allah Taala, we should not waste our time condeming others to hell or confirming their entry to heaven.

The same goes for Polygamy, Who cares how many wives Islam allows you to have, if you are married just ask yourself how just/fair you are to the one you already have ?.

Look at the day you have just spent on this earth, and ask yourself, what you have done for another human, have you helped any one who is less fortunate than you ?..have you given something to the poor? have you spent your day arguing and hurting others ?..

feel free to critisize anything I have written, but I honestly think that we should improve relations with other human beings and make sure we our-selves are following our faith before we go putting others down. To quote a saying from a recent film I have seen…‘There’s a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path’. Don’t tell others about the rules and regulations of your faith when you yourself dont act upon them !.

By the way, I include my self in all of the
above, I’m not making any claims of self-righteousness or any of that mightier than thou crap !. There’s too much hatred and bickering in the world due to faith…I really think we should make an effort to change some of it !.

Well I’ve had my 2 cents worth..the time is 8.50pm (gmt)…and I’m hungry !

Allah Hafiz.

2

First of all very nice post!

Allah says in quran that non-muslims will never be happy with you, will never like you, will cause pain and trouble amonge you, will creat fights among you, if you do not believe what they believe.
As we all know that quran(islam) is the answer to all the problems hate, love, sex, and all other aspects of life, we have to live by those rules rules of allah in quran and rules of mohammad(PBH) in Hadith, than those problems and discomfort will go away.
Off course no one has that strong iman to be able to do that.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif

[4:45]
45. Allah has full knowledge of your enemies, and Allah is Sufficient as a Wali (Protector), and Allah is Sufficient as a Helper.

[47:35]
35. So be not weak and ask not for peace (from the enemies of Islam), while you are having the upper hand. Allah is with you, and will never decrease the reward of your good deeds.

Jaawan

Till next timeKeep_It_Simple_Stupid©

3

Thanks, great posts. I guess you could sum it up by saying…‘Who are we to judge.’

But just one thing…

What do u mean when u say that? If no one has strong enough iman to pursue Islam in that way, then why do people pursue it, i don’t know what u meant exactly and i don’t mean to argue, but the way u said it makes it sound hopeless.

“Everyone commits sin. The best amongst the sinners, are those who sincerely repent and turn towards Allah.” [Tirmidhi]

And isn’t it more the journey, rather than the destination,
“Actions will be judged by intention and everyone will be judged according to his intention.”[Bukhari, Muslim]

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.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited June 11, 2000).]

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Naz

========================================================================================

My mother told me a story once and unfortunately I cannot verify its authenticity, however it is a beutiful story...it goes that before the partition of India & Pakistan, when hindu Sikh & muslim lived side by side, a hindu child was eating something infront of a muslim house-hold. The parent of this child saw this and scolded the child, and asked him ' Do you not know that it is the month of Ramadan for the muslims ?' ...show your respect and dont eat in front of them while they are fasting'. For this action the Hindu farther was forgiven by Allah and was given enterance to Heaven.

I am curious, what was hindu father forgiven for....if I understand correctly according to your story Hindus are commiting sin by just being Hindus and only muslims will go to heaven, ..i find this attitude very intolerant and disrespectful of others.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited June 11, 2000).]

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I think that he is simply saying that the hindu was respectful of the religious sentiments of his neighbors and he appreciates it. I dont think he means any offence. In fact, it is other way round. He went out of the way to see that neighbor is not offended. It is just like there is nothing legally wrong in offering beef to a pandit or a cigarette to a sardar or rum to a muslim. But generally civilized people will not get into such provocative acts.

[This message has been edited by ullu (edited June 12, 2000).]

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Rani,
The Hindu was forgiven for his sins, NOT for being a Hindu. Please read the post again, very carefully, and make no references to previous posts made by other guppies. If you read it with an open, unbiased mind you will notice that I have tried very hard not to offend anyone nor to suggest that 'Only muslims will go to heaven'.

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http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/ok.gif

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wat a load of BS concocted trash!! If there was anyone most entitled for such a reward, that would be Abu Talib, the paternal uncle of Prophet (PBUH) and yet Allah's Messenger (PBUH) won't be able to intercede on his behalf on the day of judgment. These kind of nonsense stories might be good enuf to buy u a few cheers at the podium, but no worth in true senses..... it would just simply negate the whole philosophy of Tauheed & oneness of God. use ur mind before posting garbage like this.

10

KK,

Easy tiger !...you seem to have completely missed the whole point of this post. It has nothing to do with the hindu or his Kid. The point I was trying to get across was that no-one can make the claim that they have earned the right to go to Heaven. You can spend all your time in the rememberence of Allah Taala and carry out all your Islamic duties, but you still would not be able to make the claim that you will go to Heaven. It is up to Allah Taala, who he decides to forgive and who not to forgive.Yes we all must follow our faith to the best of our ability. But in doing so we cannot sit back in the comfort that Entry into heaven is guaranteed. You can spend an entire lifetime in the worship of Allah Taalah and then commit a single act of sin which could result in being sent to Hell, on the other hand you could spend your life in sin and a single pure act /good deed could be all thats needed to gain forgiveness from Allah Taala.
As regards Abu Talib, the uncle of the Blessed Prophet (PBUH). Unfortunately I do not know the specifics of this account so I cannot comment on it.

you wrote >>
These kind of nonsense stories might be good enuf to buy u a few cheers at the podium, but no worth in true senses

yeah right !, if cheers and popularity is what I was seeking, there are easier methods than to debate over religion !.

11

sorry sweetie, u r beating the wrong tracks again! The question of who Allah will forgive is related to one's faith - directly.

  • And O ye in sin! Get ye apart this Day! Did I not enjoin on you, O ye Children of Adam, that ye should not worship Satan; for that he was to you an enemy avowed?- And that ye should worship Me, (for that) this was the Straight Way - But he did lead astray a great multitude of you. Did ye not, then, understand? This is the Hell of which ye were (repeatedly) warned! - Embrace ye the (fire) this Day, for that ye (persistently) rejected (Truth)." (YaaSin, 59-64) *

If it was simply a matter of Allah's mercy, He sure didn't need to send down so many prophets calling people towards the oneness of their creator. Hence if someone on this discussion board makes a call that
Only people with belief in Tauheed will be successful, there is certain legitimate weight associated with it which u can't simply shrug off.

how ironic - about Abu Talib, u "do not know the specifics of this account" hence swept it under the carpet, but more than willing to use some crap story about a hindu family (which u admit can't verify the authenticity of) to make ur point!!!

12

Sunday Sermon!!! Uggghhh!!!

And Great Treatment of Other Members....aka Fellow Human Beings....

13

KK,

First off, as regards the story of the Hindu family, with hind sight, It wasn't wise of me to include that in my post especially when I can't verify it's authenticity. call it a moment of weakness if you will. However put that to one side and forget about it. The underlying argument which you still don't seem to grasp is that if on the day of judgement, Allah Taala decides to forgive you, it will be because of his mercy, not because of your countless years of worship.

Yes, the very fabric of Islam is based on the belief in Tauheed (The One-ness of Allah Taala). But that belief in its-self will not give you direct passage to Heaven. even Shaitaan, believed in one true Allah. When he was thrown out of Heaven it wasn't because he suddenly started to worship false Gods, it was because of his refusal to prostrate before hazrath Adam (AS). Somehow I don't think that Shaitann can count on access to heaven because he believes in the exitence of One God.

As for Allah Taala Sending down his prophets to guide mankind. They did more than just tell people to worship only one God. They in-themselves were an example, for humans to follow (how to talk, eat, sit, conduct youself in public & private) everything one needs to lead a successful life with other humans. There are two aspects of faith, one which deals with your relationship with Allah Taalah and the other which governs your relationship with the people around you.

I am certain I have read a Hadith of the Blessed Prophet (PBUH) which states - He who torments his neighbour, his abode will be hell fire, even if he spends the whole day fasting and the whole night prostrating before Allah Taala'.

Note that It doesn't mention that your neighbour has to be a Muslim. My understanding of this Hadith is that no matter how pious you are if you cause grief to your neighbours you are destined for hell. I will try to find an exact reference for you, but I can Assure you it's not something I made up !.

ONCE AGAIN, your belief in one Allah is NOT enough, it will be considered in context with what you did with the rest of your life.

Yes I also agree that in the Holy Quran, there are clear words of Allah Taala regarding the right and wrong paths, These are there as a guide for all the believers, but if Heaven was guaranteed for all the followers of Islam, then there would be no need for the Intercession of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) on the day of judgement. Allah Taala could simply say, All those who did good and were pious can go to Heaven...the rest of you can go to hell. NO !, the very fact that on the day of judgement Nabi-e-Kareem (SAW) will be there to intercede on behalf of his Ummah, is in-itself proof that forgivness from Allah Taala is NOT solely based on your actions in this life. If he chooses to forgive you it will be because of his infinite mercy and wisdome.

14

Naz, You wrote,
"For this action the Hindu father was forgiven by Allah and was given enterance "

How does it feel when I re-write:
"For this action the Muslim father was forgiven by Lord Shiva and was given entrance "

If you don't feel any bias towards the sentence I have re-written than only I can say that your intentions were good when you posted your message.

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Big_Bull....My intentions were good..honest !

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"Allah says in quran that non-muslims will never be happy with you, will never like you, will cause pain and trouble amonge you, will creat fights among you, if you do not believe what they believe. "

Very nice quote

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Ur nto suposed to take the hindu family story literaly...it has a underlying meaning and that is what counts...

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"Allah says in quran that non-muslims will never be happy with you, will never like you, will cause pain and trouble amonge you, will creat fights among you, if you do not believe what they believe. "

God bless the tolerant religion. It is the most tolerant religion of all times, which will always tolerate others who follow them. And because Allah has told them (Oops in fact, Mohd. has told them that Allah told him) that all others will be their enemies so the muslims all over feel threatend by all others and try to achieve freedom by breaking the nations into two. Freedom here and heavens above.

19

Anant >>
Ur nto suposed to take the hindu family story literaly...it has a underlying meaning and that is what counts...

Thankyou ! At last, Someone on this thread finally gets the jist of what I am trying to say. Unfortunately there is always someone who runs out with guns blazing and firing blanks !. If people would read the original post carefully, they would realise that I have tried very hard not to offend anyone and especially tried hard not to say anything anti-islamic. I am a Muslim and I believe with all my heart that it is the one true Faith. But there comes a time when you have to stop and realise that threatening others of Hell or of Allah Taala's punishment just does not work. Weather you are trying to convince other Muslims to better them-selves or to help non-muslims get a better understanding of Islam, there are ways and means of doing things, going around trashing other faiths is NOT one of them. If people think that this is wrong and that it is perfectly OK to trash other religions, well then I'm sorry for trying to bring some peace and harmony to the world!.

20

Naz,

Your post was from the point of view of a Muslim, and no one should blame you for that. I understood how you meant the story to be received, and I think it was very appropriate.

I agree with everything that you have written. Performing the various rituals associated with your faith is not enough to get you to heaven. You must be a good person and help your fellow human beings. In fact, I believe that a person who has a positive effect on this earth may go to heaven even without all of the five pillars. This is for God to decide.

On this board there is too much trashing of other people, other religions and other cultures. The Muslims think that they are justified doing this just because every once in a while a Hindu or a Sikh might say something intolerant. So what, does that mean that we should go and do the same thing? It's time to get rid of the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" mentality. Let's have some social progress!!!!! Most of the posts on this board by Hindus are very positive and friendly and I'm glad they are here. I especially like Queer.

I have observed in life that many if not most of the mullah types who go around criticizing and condemning others are not so hot themselves. Help people and talk to them in a nice way. If you can't do that, keep quiet.

Zara