^ Are you saying EVERYONE has to follow that "sequence of events"?
And again... So what's the maximum age you believe someone can live to before Allah's laws become defied and broken?
Yes, everyone must follow that sequence of events. The ‘Sequence’ will not change.
Why are repeating yourself. I’ve told you it depends on Allah’s will of how long he keeps a person alive. I am not sure what are you trying to prove here… 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zakiahmed: *
Yes, everyone must follow that sequence of events. The 'Sequence' will not change.
[/quote]
Can you please tell me how verses 14 and 15 in that sequence apply to Adam and Eve?
[quote]
I've told you it depends on Allah's will of how long he keeps a person alive.
[/QUOTE]
Good... then your questions about "How can he live that long defying rules and laws set forth by Allah?" are pointless... thanks...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gupguppy: *
Can you please tell me how verses 14 and 15 in that sequence apply to Adam and Eve?
[/QUOTE]
Well, ofcourse, according to our interpretation, Adam and Eve were not the 'First' human beings on the planet of earth. They were born through natural process which Allah has described in these verses. And there were people before them. But that's totally a separate discussion.
However, are you saying that Quran is 'wrong' (Nauzobillah) as it doesn't hold grounds for the case of Adam and Eve and Isa (as) [again according to your interpretation]. Because we think that none of the verses of Quran can be disapproved in any case?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zakiahmed: *
Well, ofcourse, according to our interpretation, Adam and Eve were not the 'First' human beings on the planet of earth. They were born through natural process which Allah has described in these verses. And there were people before them. But that's totally a separate discussion.
[/quote]
Huh!? So who does verse 13 apply to then?
[quote]
However, are you saying that Quran is 'wrong'
[/quote]
No... i am saying you are wrong.
Prophet Isa (as) was born, will die, and will be resurrected... that's completely in accord with the sequence… isn't it?
What do you think of birth of Hawwa :as: and the emergance of female camel from rock, known as camel of Saleh :as: ???
Rules are made by Allah and he knows them better.
Oh heck, you'll just confuse him even more by bringing camels into it... at the moment he's having trouble understanding that Prophet Isa (as) was born, will die and will be resurrected... he thinks some universal law has been broken and that heaven and earth will fall apart if someone lives beyond a mysterious age limit that he can't define...
In Surah Al-Anbiya' verse 21:7-8, Allah declares:
21:7 We did not send before you (O Muhammad(pbuh)) any but man to whom We sent revelations; therefore you ask the followers of the Reminder if you do not know
21:8 And We did not give them bodies not taking food and neither are they abiding
Among other things, the important findings from these verses are:
(1) All Rasuls were human beings
(2) Their mortal bodies sustained on food
(3) They are all dead
The Quran categorically tells that all prophets were human being, they were not superhuman or god. Because they were human beings, whatever is natural to a human being has to apply to them as well. All human being eat food for sustenance, so also all Rasuls were dependent on food for sustenance of their physical bodies.
25:20 And We did not send before you any the Rasuls, but they surely ate food and walked through the street.
Whatever applies to human being has to apply to Rasuls also. Emphasis on such mundane thing like eating food and walking on street suggest that there is nothing extraordinary in their lives. They are just like any other human being. This is true about their life and death. Once again, I must reiterate that if you don’t believe in the death of Jesus(pbuh) you are putting all these verses to contradict each other. Not only that, you are believing only part of the Quran that suits you and rejecting other part that does not fit your notions and Christian dogma.
^ Yes, i agree, Prophet Isa (as) was dependent on food... is that what you were trying to prove all along?... you sure went the long way around...
Have you given up on your "sequence" argument or are you planning to breathe life into that later on?
And i didn't know you denied miracles as well...
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by gupguppy: *
^ Yes, i agree, Prophet Isa (as) **was* dependent on food... .
[/QUOTE]
Thank you... so you agreed... great...
^ Before he was raised he ate food, for sure he did... is this is the level of your argument?... how childishly silly... perhaps now you can go and learn how to read the Qur'an...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gupguppy: *
^ Before he was raised he ate food, for sure he did... is this is the level of your argument?... how childishly silly... perhaps now you can go and learn how to read the Qur'an...
[/QUOTE]
So he doesn't eat now?
But Allah says:
25:20 And We did not send before you any the Rasuls, but they surely ate food and walked through the street.
and then He says:
21:8 And We did not give them bodies not taking food and neither are they abiding
to maray bhai... yeh asman walay hadhra Isa(as) khana kahan say khatay hain... just tell me that...
^ I'm sure he's not suffering from hunger or anything... i'm sure he's getting all the food he needs
Have you given up on your "sequence" argument or are you planning to breathe life into that later on?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gupguppy: *
^ I'm sure he's not suffering from hungry or anything where he is
[/QUOTE]
So you are suggesting he is not Rasul or for that matter a human anymore? Because Allah has specifically said that all Rasul EAT FOOD. He didn't make a exception to Jesus(as). He has to eat food if he is alive and if he is Rasul and if he is human. If he's none of the above than he must be (Nauzobillah) god because only god doesn't require to eat/drink. And how can a person live without eating/drinking for more than 2000 years?
And by the way, how does he pay zakat. He has to be present in this world to pay zakat as it has to be distributed to the poor. Does he (Nauzobillah) throw down some $ from the sky?
As for sequence argument, I've put Quranic verses infront of you. I've made my point that Isa(as) as a human being, had to go through those steps as Allah has mentioned. Nothing more nothing less. But you are including 2 more 'Paranormal' inclusions to that process specifically to prove that Jesus(as) is alive up somewhere... You should be the one to do the explaining, not me.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zakiahmed: *
So you are suggesting he is not Rasul or for that matter a human anymore? Because Allah has specifically said that all Rasul EAT FOOD. He didn't make a exception to Jesus(as). He has to eat food if he is alive and if he is Rasul and if he is human.
[/quote]
Okay, earlier you showed us that you couldn't read Arabic... now you are doing it for English as well... go back and read the next few words that you neglected to quote...
[quote]
As for sequence argument, I've put Quranic verses infront of you. I've made my point that Isa(as) as a human being, had to go through those steps as Allah has mentioned.
[/quote]
Jesus was born, will die, and will be resurrected... which aspect of your sequence doesn't this fit into?
Oh, and again, who does verse 13 of that sequence apply to?
What do you make of the man (thought to have been Hazrat Uzair :as: ) who died for a 100 years and was brought back to life.(read Al Baqra, verse 259). What did he eat?
Can you kindly shed some light on the following verses. Keeping in view that Jesus will come back and will know that christians had gone astray.
005.116
YUSUFALI: And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
PICKTHAL: And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden?
SHAKIR: And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.
005.117
YUSUFALI: "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
PICKTHAL: I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.
SHAKIR: I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things.
Surah 29. The Spider
- We (once) sent Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand years less fifty: but the Deluge overwhelmed them while they (persisted in) sin.
I thought I'd throw this one into the equation as it also doesn't meet the criteria of 70 years living and death for some Guppies.
Peace
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
Can you kindly shed some light on the following verses. Keeping in view that Jesus will come back and will know that christians had gone astray...
[/quote]
That Jesus preached tawhid and was a witness over his ummah before he was raised
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gupguppy: *
That Jesus preached tawhid and was a witness over his ummah before he was raised
[/QUOTE]
So when he would descend again, would he no longer be a witness over his ummah?