Tomb of Virgin Mary in Murree
yes and i am the re incarnation of lady diana.. 
bow infront me !
^^ nah!!!! I told ya it ain't gonna work. See Zaki is struggling for years here. :D
Bring something new, this trick is 106 years old now ;)
/\ /\
So, it seems like you have a plenty of support from Quran and Hadith and Logic to support your argument that Jesus :as: went upto heavens bodily and will descend from heavens bodily. Why don’t you share it with us.
Well bible says that Mary Magdelene and some others saw jesus being elevated into the skies with their own eyes. Ofcourse leaving the earth's atmosphere would need some kind of protection. Space suite, a ship or some other implements. Muslims, on the other hand do not have anything more to say apart from he was lifted up. Where is "up"?
Then comes their substitution theory. Jesus was substituted with another passer by who was given his resemblence, and was crucified. For what reason? If it was God who decided his fate, then he must have committed a crime. Some come up with an explanation that he was a thief or a murderer. Very convenient. But whats the wisdom behind hanging a theif or a murderer in the cross when no one knew who he was? How could Jesus, a prophet of God be saved by such a trick while God had the power to save him without the crucifixion taking place at all!
Here is another one. What was the fault of all the disciples of Jesus, who believed in him. For them, their messiah was hung on the cross. End of story. How can a mullah explain the brief appearance of Jesus among his disciples after the event? Quran says that Jesus was sent to the Bani Israel as a prophet. right? So the lost tribes were deprived of the prophet they were promised. why?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
^^ yours too. Ameen
P.S::D
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Ameen
Wese I will dig in the reference Zaki and post later from home. But for instance let assume your theory is correct. Now what should we do, call the opium-addicted womanizer The Promised Messiah ?
Please asnwer so it will clear the purpose of this thread. Jazzaks!
And don't dare to argue on my statement above, I will provide you references from your own books that you won't be able to deny. :)
I am not here to prove all the miracles of God. I believe in Meraj and that Moses parted the Red Sea, as well. If you don't, its upto you. I am not about to explain space suits and all that to you. You can chose to believe whatever you want.
As far as Jesus is concerned, most believe he went up in the skies or came back and died in the area around where he was crucified. That would be a miracle and don't need to be explained. You don't believe it, thats fine. Don't expect anyone to provide scientific reasons on how Red sea was parted, either.
You guys propose and defend a theory that Jesus walked all the way from middle East to India and died in Srinagar. Presumably his grave is there too. It should be a fairly straightforward process to do DNA testing and carbon-date the remains. If not already done, it should be done. Better clear up a myth than just arguing about it.
According to Mr. Smooth Guy, anyone who uses a homoepathic remedy can be an alcoholic. And yes not to forget those who do daily exercise can be called opium addicts. Even use of cough syrups and pain killers would be a "sin" according to their version of Islam. As far as womanizing is concerned, no need to be so vocal about it. Just browse through some christian propaganda against Islam and a just minded person will feel ashamed before accusing anyone of it.
As far as ascention of Jesus is concerned. Its easy to call it a miracle of a category which has not been mentioned either in Quran nor Hadith and such fondness with which you believe in it is strange.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
Then comes their substitution theory. Jesus was substituted with another passer by who was given his resemblence, and was crucified. For what reason? If it was God who decided his fate, then he must have committed a crime. Some come up with an explanation that he was a thief or a murderer. Very convenient. But whats the wisdom behind hanging a theif or a murderer in the cross when no one knew who he was? How could Jesus, a prophet of God be saved by such a trick while God had the power to save him without the crucifixion taking place at all!
[/quote]
Unless someone - one of his disciples - willingly sacrificed himself on Jesus' behalf as is mentioned in the commentaries... one explanation being that this took place at the last supper after Jesus had told his disciples what the people were plotting against him... go look it up
[quote]
Here is another one. What was the fault of all the disciples of Jesus, who believed in him. For them, their messiah was hung on the cross. End of story. How can a mullah explain the brief appearance of Jesus among his disciples after the event? Quran says that Jesus was sent to the Bani Israel as a prophet. right? So the lost tribes were deprived of the prophet they were promised. why?
[/quote]
see above
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
According to Mr. Smooth Guy, anyone who uses a homoepathic remedy can be an alcoholic. And yes not to forget those who do daily exercise can be called opium addicts. Even use of cough syrups and pain killers would be a "sin" according to their version of Islam. As far as womanizing is concerned, no need to be so vocal about it. Just browse through some christian propaganda against Islam and a just minded person will feel ashamed before accusing anyone of it.
[/QUOTE]
Good joke :) if that was intent. Anyone can see how beautifully you presented LOGIC to defend him. As far as west is concerned they will say whatever they want, this is a tradition there, be it Moses, Ezra, Jesus or Mohammed peace be upon them. Accusing prophets is not new to them but rather a blood thing.
But I have to find one person in the history of the mankind who claims spritiual leader and a follower of Prophet, then Messiah and then incarnation of Prophet himself (nauzobillah). Looks like he was not sure who actually he was. Perhaps an identity crises case.
May Allah bless you with hidayah. Ameen.
In Bible, Jesus has been reported to ask Peter what he thought about him. Peter replied that he thought of him as the Messiah (Promised son of David). And Jesus was happy to hear that. Note that Peter was the wisest and closest disciple. Shows how prophets make their claims and how much general public understands them. Same sort of thing happened during Holy Prophets' (Saw) time. At one occasion he told his companions not to call him superior than Moses. But later Quran declared him Rehmatul lil'Aalameen. And Holy Prophet (Saw) himself claimed to be the best among prophets as testified by the verse of Khatamun Nabiyyeen.
Its not easy to believe Mr smoothG. That is why majority has always "not known", "not understood", "not accepted", "mocked", ridiculed", slandered" against the prophets as Quran states.
Faisal, would a DNA test or Carbon dating test prove that it is Jeses :as:?. How would we know what his DNA was anyway, are there any decendants of his that wed be able to compare (verify) it with? Also carbon dating will only give the age.
Either way it wouldnt really clear up this myth.
Carbon dating can tell whether the remains are 900 year old or 2000 year old.
I think this will clear any illusions you have. :)
In his various books, Mirza Ghulam A. Qadiani, had given three different locations for the Grave of Jesus. Which one is correct?
Jesus AS buried in Al-Khaleeli (Gulailee):
In 1891 Mirza wrote a huge volume, Izala Auham, which ran upto 948 pages. In the second volume of this book, he wrote a detailed, mind boggling explanation trying to prove that Jesus was not taken physically to heavens (as the Muslims believe), but that he was taken down from the cross, went to his native place, Al-Khalil, died and buried there. He writes:
"This is true that Maseeh went to his native place, and died there, but this is not true that the same body which was buried, became alive again..... verse 3 chapter I of Acts is a testimony about the natural death of Jesus that took place in Al-Khaleeli. After this death, Maseeh was visible to his students as KASHF (vision) for 40 days." (Izala-e-Auham, Roohani Khazain vol.3 p.353-354)*Grave of Jesus in Quds: *
However, 3 years later, in 1894, Mirza changed his story. In his other book, Atmam-e-Hujjat (Roohani Khazain volume 8) he once again tried to prove that Eisa Ibne Maryam AS is dead. In an attempt to prove that, he gave the testimony of one of his rare Arab Disciple, Molvi Mohammed Al-Saeedi Trabilisi Al-Shaami. He wrote:
"This has to be admitted that Hazrat Eisa is also dead, and interestingly enough the grave of Hazrat Eisa is also in Syria and for further clarity, in the footnote, I include the testimony of My brother, My lover in Allah, Molvi Mohammad Al-Saeedi Trablisi. He is a resident of Tripoli, in the Country of Syria and in his area is the Grave of Hazrat Essa AS (Jesus). If you say that Grave is a fake, then you must provide the proof of this fake, and prove that when this fraud took place. And in this event we will not be sure about the graves of any prophet and trust will be lost, and we will have to say that all those burial places are fake." (Atmam E Hujat, Page: 18-19, Roohani Khazain vol.8 p.296-297, dated 1894)
Letter of Molvi Mohammed Al-Saeedi Trabilisi:
"O Hazrat Maulana & My Imam. Assalamo alaikum wa rehmatullah wa barakaatohu. I pray that may Allah give you cure (I recieved this letter of Shaami Saheb during my illness) Whatever you have asked about the Grave of Eisa alaihe assalam and other events, thus I am writing to you in detail, and that is this: Hazrat Eisa alaih assalam was born in Bait-ul-Lehm and between Bait-ul-Lehm and Quds there is a distance of thirty miles and the Grave of Hazrat Eisa alaihe assalam is in the Country of Quds, and is present till now, and there is a Church built on it, and that church is the largest church of all churches, and inside it is the Grave of Hazrat Eisa and in the same church is the Grave of Maryam, the truthful. And both graves are separate." (Atmam-ul-Hujjat, Roohani Khazain vol.8 p.299)
That seems to settle the matter. As far as Mirza Saheb was concerned, Jesus was dead and his grave was in al-Quds.Jesus' Grave in Kashmir:
However 8 years later, Mirza changed the story once again. Now he started propagating his new theory: Jesus is buried in Kashmir.
"It is proved with certianity that Essa AS (Jesus) migrated to Kashmir. After this Allah liberated him with his blessing and he kept on living there for a long time until he died and was included among the deads. And his burial place is still in the city of Srinagar (Tomb of Yus Asif)" (Al-Huda, 12 June 1902, Page 109)
"I have been informed about the grave of Eisa (in Kashmir)." (Roohani Khazain vol 18 p.358, 361)
"The grave of Jesus is in Kashmir." (Roohani Khazain vol 18 p. 320, Nuzool-e-Maseeh, printed in 1909, after the death of Mirza)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
Well bible says that Mary Magdelene and some others saw jesus being elevated into the skies with their own eyes. Ofcourse leaving the earth's atmosphere would need some kind of protection. Space suite, a ship or some other implements. Muslims, on the other hand do not have anything more to say apart from he was lifted up. Where is "up"?
Then comes their substitution theory. Jesus was substituted with another passer by who was given his resemblence, and was crucified. For what reason? If it was God who decided his fate, then he must have committed a crime. Some come up with an explanation that he was a thief or a murderer. Very convenient. But whats the wisdom behind hanging a theif or a murderer in the cross when no one knew who he was? How could Jesus, a prophet of God be saved by such a trick while God had the power to save him without the crucifixion taking place at all!
Here is another one. What was the fault of all the disciples of Jesus, who believed in him. For them, their messiah was hung on the cross. End of story. How can a mullah explain the brief appearance of Jesus among his disciples after the event? Quran says that Jesus was sent to the Bani Israel as a prophet. right? So the lost tribes were deprived of the prophet they were promised. why?
[/QUOTE]
Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Jesus are two different people.
Lifted or Risen..meaning..raised from the dead.
Mr. SmoothG,
Although the extracts you have given don't give the full story, it is clear that Promised Messiah (as) had presented arguments in the light of the available knowledge and particular times. The argument were in support of the fact that Jesus had died and not where he was buried. The burial place of Jesus was confirmed by extensive research into the matter and research takes time.
why in the world “Promissed Messiah” was not told (by Ilhaam, as he often used to have one) about the right place of the burial of Jesus in the first place. When Allah was seeing it that Mirja is making mistake in making guess (or rather relying on earthly myths about tomb of Jesus) why HE waited 11 years to correct the claim of his PM?
Or may be Allah still didn’t guide him, someone else told him about the grave in Srinagar. Whatever you can make out of this statement. In either case its a blow on him.
“I have been informed about the grave of Eisa (in Kashmir).” (Roohani Khazain vol 18 p.358, 361)
And what is the "source" of information given in Roohani Khazain. Try looking it up at www.alfazal.org but i am sure you will not be able to understand these pages as they are in Arabic. Very kind of Rashid Ali to give references from Arabic books to confuse the "right minded" readers. For your kind information, the burial place of Jesus has been researched extensively by human means. And if someone finds compelling evidence and tells others, he/she does not become God.
Sorry, you lost this arguement sir. A Messiah is not supposed to dig in human research for 11 years to find the right place of birth of a prophet. I and any sane person with little bit knowledge of Prophets and their prophecy know that Allah can't left an apostle in illussions for minor thing like this for this long to humilate himself (not a minor thing for Mirja since his integrity was on stake). This was a big thing for Mirja to prove himself and if he was a true (whatever=decide yourself) then Allah must have given him guidance to prove himself the 'Promised Messiah'.
May Allah guide you to the truth. Ameen.
Deleted by AAG.
Gone from my brain is the thought train responsible for the gibberish that was this post....:)
SmoothG,
Your question is very valid. So much so that you must apply it to other prophets as well and see if the "corrective" revelations were sent to them on every occasion where a prophet made an "ijtihadi error".
Prophets are only humans and are born with the same human faculties as the rest. It is their nature which makes them different from the rest and the nature is bestowed upon them from Allah. Now it is Allah's Will whether He gives all the information on a matter or withholds some for the the guidence of the future generations. Ayatul Kursi teaches us the same principle. If all the truths were made menifest and obvious in revelation like a scientific piece of work, than where is the trial for those with wicked natures?