Tolerating the wrong ..

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Tolerating the wrong ..

Can you tell me the reason why you give away free money?
to give charity is your selfless act?

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Re: Tolerating the wrong ..

You can send me PM. :chai:

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Re: Tolerating the wrong ..

[quote]

[/quote]

I suggest you read up on Boko Haram's founder Mohammed Yusuf. There has been quite a bit written about him. I suspect he had a better education than most, graduate degree(s), spoke several languages, and had committed all of the Quran to memory. His interpretation is what is being executed now by his followers. I suspect his justifications are as scriptural as are yours, if not more so.

But your point is deviating from the original topic of this thread: Tolerating wrong...
My question still stands, though I believe brother @psyah has the most reasonable, religious explanation. My question is: Why should a religion be used as the source of what is right and wrong?

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Re: Tolerating the wrong ..

With all due respect Brother Monk, if I was sent here by your god(s), I would be xenophobic, selfish, and in the killing fields with the rest of the true believers.
I prefer to think I’m here as a demonstration that you don’t need god(s) to be good and that kindness is an end to itself. Also, this is a really good forum and I enjoy the conversations! :slight_smile:

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Re: Tolerating the wrong ..

1500 years later, there is so many different versions of the same religion, each claiming to be the truth. some even claim to call the other ones kafir. muslims are more divided than ever. sure, there is just 1 book but there is many different ways of interpretation. you can say those interpretations are wrong, but everyone does think they are following the true religion. one side can argue those people are taking those verses out of context, while other side has a completely different context. anyway this is completely besides the topic. But there is truly no 'one' islam.

there is plenty of extremists (just like there are extremist in other religious and even non-religious groups as well).
weren't you the one who also agreed that maududi agrees in killing apostates while many other scholars don't. are you going to say he's not a true muslim? even on this forum, some guy showed many hadith based 'evidence' why apostates MUST be killed. check out the thread on killing of apostates on this forum.

Things like this is not unique to Islam and musims only, Christians have also used religion to suit their agenda, and Jews have as well and still are. There is no absolute interpretation of any religion.

anyway, this is completely offtopic, i just felt the need to clarify some things.

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Maudoodi had his own school of thought, but that doesn’t mean it is representative of Islam or the only true interpretation of Islam, Islam allows free will and a freedom of conscience, you can subscribe to any school of thought within Islam, it could be wrong or right, but that would be how you see it, so you just choose the one that you think makes the most sense to you but since you chose atheism I guess you’ve already made up your mind if you know what i mean… :smokin:

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I dont know …
You come here.. post no where … only converse with @psyah…
I feel like you are being put there… God wants more of you.. my brother… :hugz:

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read my post again, i never said his version is the right one and someone else is wrong. my point is, there is many different versions and each one claims to be right. all the extremist groups from all different religions follow their own interpretation, while the enlightened moderation kind have their own. its upto people to decide which one makes more sense.

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Bella... you need focus.
My point is simple and one liner.

I would love to quote some thing from bible here..

Remember how God warned israel, "that book/messages would be given to gentiles.. if they did disobey "

Gentile(common people)

Guess what... Meghaz's post a perfect example of Gentile have the core/the book/ the messages. She did not go to father or rabbai..
She as a common man knew the truth....

hence Gods promised made in Torrah fulfilling/fulfilled.

Thank you.

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Re: Tolerating the wrong ..

As far as your question, I don't have a religious explanation as I don't believe religion should be dragged into every single as aspect of life. Common sense goes a long way too. In short, I don't believe religion alone should used as the sole source of right and wrong as "right" and "wrong" are not black and white in the real world. However, if people do, that is fine too as long as they don't harm anyone. Overall, as long as people don't harm others or impose their own beliefs on others, they should be free to do whatever they like and use whatever they like as the source of right and wrong.

In regards to the other matter, do give people some credit. Most people have the mental capacity to discern what is part of their religion and what is not. If the vast majority of people were so gullible and easily swayed by extremists, the vast majority of Muslims would be extremists by now but that is not the case, so clearly, most Muslims are not so easily influenced.

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Perhaps you're different, but the only argument against same sex couples is religious. The only arguments for genital mutilation is religious. The only argument for polygamy is religious. The only argument for mandatory veils for women is religious. This is religion being forced on people.

I do give the vast majority of people lots of credit. They aren't following their religions! I am thankful for that. If they were, the world would be lit up in wars like centuries past. People hate to hear it, but the true adherents of every religion act just like the founders of their religions; barbaric, uneducated, chauvinistic, sexist, etc., etc..
Luckily religions are losing their grip. The world is turning to reason. The fastest growing segment of the world, every part, is no religion.

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Are you any of those ?
Are you as social worker seeing this issues?
Are you closely involved with anyone going through this ?

What is your vintage point?

Or are you nothing of above, but protecting a cloud in your brain called, non-religious-awesomeness?

I need to know how much brain hr you spent on issues going forward in them.
Not repeating them.. but going deeper in them.

Please bring forth your insight beyond casual statements, so we know your are not another CNNer.

If you cant, ask your self why you do that?
Who feeds you all that and what they get out of it.

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Brother @kprasad

Please may you consider the following to ascertain whether the criteria for “true believer” in popular media is correct or whether the majority of Muslims are correct.

How many Muslims in your personal experience and interactions are violent and love war? What basis do you trust the media about its take on Muslims? And consider the following which is from our scriptures and early understandings of Islam.

Al-Jurjânî says about it: “This hadith is one of the foundations of Islam.”

It is a most eloquent summary of how a Muslim is supposed to conduct himself with others. Al-Nawawî relates to us that Ibn Abî Zayd, the leading jurist in Morocco of his time, said: “All the etiquettes of virtue can be derived from four hadith – ” Then he mentioned the following statements of the Prophet (peace be upon him):

  1. “Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should say something good or remain silent.”

2**. “** From the perfection of a person’s Islam is his leaving alone what does not concern him.”

  1. “Do not get angry”

  2. “None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.”

These hadîth shows how people are supposed to relate to each other. It negates base emotions such as envy and establishes the vision of a society based on mutual responsibility and caring.

How would one reconcile the Islamic instruction of “not getting angry” and the suicide bombers … To me they seem to be very angry people. Doesn’t that make them less qualified to be called “true believers”?

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Brother @kprasad

Please read this …

"The Sufi interpretation of Islam has been practiced in Chechnya since the end of the 18th century. The Sufism of the Naqshbandi tariqa (or brotherhood) was the first to make its way to Chechnya (by Sheikh Mansur, Imam Avko, Imam Tashu-Hadji and many others). In the 1850s, at the time of military defeats for the Imamate of Shamil, the Qadiri tariqa was introduced to Chechen society, which at the beginning advocated spiritual resistance but by no means physical confrontation. This brotherhood was represented by Sheikh Kunta-Hadji Kishiev.

Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, the members of the Sufi brotherhoods encountered for the first time active propaganda by members of the Islamic Party of Renaissance, who encouraged Chechens to reject Sufism and follow a radical interpretation of Islam, pejoratively referred to as Salafism or Wahhabism. Adam Deniev (who later, having realized the absence of prospects for this ideology in Chechnya, realigned with the Sufis), Islam Halimov and Isa Umarov (Movlady Udugov’s brother), were the first to try to impugn the foundations of Sufism as incompatible with the dogmas of Islam as a whole. But their activity came to naught due to the flat refusal by the majority of Chechens to recognize their ideology. The activity of these “reformers” was viewed as hostile and alien to Chechens: it was considered anti-Islamic, as Sufism meant Islam to Chechens."
THE ROLE OF SUFISM IN THE CHECHEN RESISTANCE | The Jamestown Foundation

Here we see evidence that the version of Muslims who are so making themselves seen and heard in the media as violent and ruthless warmongers are in fact an innovation - that what previously did not exist. They mark for most Muslims the return of the Kharijites.

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Re: Tolerating the wrong ..

When you're talking about "many things," then use "are" and not "is." There are many laws, not is many laws. There are so many different versions of the same religion, not there "is" so many different version. Yes, it drives me batty.

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did I write it :hmmm:

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Only if you talked about laws and many religions and how there “is” so many of them. I’m not mentioning names; I just generally put it out there. Don’t claim to have perfect writing, but it’s sort of a pet-peeve.

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Brother @kprasad

Please read this:

“The Society of the Muslim Brothers (Arabic: جماعة الإخوان المسلمين‎), shortened to the Muslim Brotherhood (الإخوان المسلمونal-Ikhwān al-Muslimūn), is a transnational Islamic organization which was founded in Egypt in 1928 by the Islamic scholar and schoolteacherHassan al-Banna.[SUP][1]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][2]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][3]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][4]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP] It began as a Pan-Islamic, religious, and social movement. The Muslim Brotherhood had an estimated two million members by the end of World War II.[SUP][5]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][6]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Its ideas had gained supporters throughout the Arab world and influenced other Islamist groups with its “model of political activism combined with Islamic charity work”.[SUP][7]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP] In 2012, it became the first democratically elected political party in Egypt, but it is considered a terrorist organization by the governments of Bahrain,[SUP][8]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood#cite_note-8)[/SUP][SUP][9]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP]Egypt, Russia, Syria,Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates.[SUP][10]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][11]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][12]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][13]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP] However, the Brotherhood insists it is a peaceful organisation, pointing to its democratic elections, and has consistently renounced violence.[SUP][14]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][15]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Its top leader is on record as saying that the group “condemns violence and violent acts”.[SUP][16]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP]The Brotherhood’s stated goal is to instill the Qur’an and Sunnah as the “sole reference point for …ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community … and state.”[SUP][17]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The movement officially renounced political violence in 1949, after a period of considerable political tension which ended in the assassination of Egyptian Prime Minister Mahmoud an-Nukrashi Pasha by a young veterinary student who was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.[SUP][18]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][19]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][20]](Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia)”

This is about the Muslim Brotherhood … They are a reactionary group … and have political nuances in their call … They are also a new phenomenon which has formed in the wake of the collapse of the Islamic Caliphate. They are the most ardent callers to the restoration of the Caliphate, but they lack coherence in both Islamic and Political circles. As a result they are ineffective and many of them are becoming radicalised - they range from being non-violent to extremely violent.

Even among them the more learned insist they are non-violent - at least they understand that the core Islamic teaching is about peace … even if those are merely words designed to hoodwink a public audience - their mannerisms are not wholly from traditional Islam. Many of them believe that we are in a perpetual war and many of them believe in deception for gaining political ground. What needs to be understood however is they are not from the traditional Muslim archetype.[/SUP]

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Re: Tolerating the wrong ..

None of the Muslims that I know are violent or love war. That goes for people of all faiths I know. That is why none of the people I know, that claim to be adherents of any religion, actually practice the faith they profess fully. If they did, they would be as violent as the iron age inventors of the religion.
Everyone cherry picks and practices what they want, like you’re doing!

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I am a human being and I empathize with my fellow humans, and I join them in solidarity in their suffering.
Your religion has stripped you of empathy!