Tolerating the wrong ..

[kprasad]

Re: Tolerating the wrong ..

@psyah

If someone shows greater compassion to me than I do to them I would conclude that they must have been reading the Qur’an. I would not settle before I have treated another person with greater respect than they treat me with … or at least I try. It is not because I see that as superiority of my religion, but because I believe that if I truly consider my religion as truth I should follow it - and it teaches me to deal with others better than they deal with me. You see hypocrisy in me, perhaps there is, but my faith at least binds me for not sending you the same sentiments, or else you could use that as a reason for not listening to me. And if you do - then on the Day of Judgement I would have to answer for that.

If you were in my home, or in my protection I would not be allowed to betray that … I would be expected to defend you with my life …

Are you saying people of other faiths, or no faith, are incapable of showing more compassion than a Muslim? Why is it that the world’s greatest philanthropists are all nonbelievers? Or are you saying they aren’t compassionate? Can you describe to me an act of kindness, not a religious ritual but an act, that a non believer, or maybe even a non-Muslim, would not be able to perform?
Also, are you reserving the right to hypocrisy to co-religionists or do you extend the same courtesy to every other faith?

@redvelvet

I guess I’m none to bright either. I, too, can’t figure out how Kprasad arrived at such a conclusion from Psyah’s post. Although Kprasad is anti-religion, it appears that it bothers Him that Psyah or any other Muslim should believe in the truth and superiority of their faith. Now I get my members confused, but I think Kprasad was the one who had adamantly said it’s high time people stopped believing in an afterlife, that there are no pearly gates, etc etc. If those who believe in an after life should display better character and lifestyle than him, would he believe their religion/beliefs are superior? No, it’s only the Muslims who should be expected to drop their faith and believe in the superiority of another belief system. Yikes, the irony is that the most rigid expectations can sometimes come from those who don’t believe they are bound by a religion.

The world is lit up with religious wars! That is the character of religion. You are contra-indicated by reality! Don’t even try to bring up the No true Scotsman argument: No true Scotsman - Wikipedia
I don’t care what you believe…so long as you keep it to yourself.

@psyah

Peace kprasad
Perhaps the nuns, the transgenders and people who have multiple sexual relationships in Europe would stand with the Muslims on those issues above?

I have no idea where transgender came into this argument. Are you saying transgender people think Islam, or any religion, are tolerant towards them? Are you saying Muslims in the Muslim world don’t have multiple sexual relations?
My assertion was: Many societies in Europe consider the veil, genital mutilation (circumcision), and polygamy to be wrong as well. Are you ok with Europeans forcing their beliefs on Muslims?
My question is, perhaps stated more clearly: What gives you the exclusive right to dictate what is right and wrong based on your religion?

@psyah

Tolerance is for people not for the acts of harm … We don’t give compassion to cigarettes - we give it to smokers who are imprisoned by their addictions and/or eclipsed by their own desires to continue taking it.
If we stop a heroine addict from taking his hit - we will kill him … some Muslims actually believe this is right … but what is correct here is to take him away from that environment and administer morphine to him gradually reducing it until his dependency wanes and he is strong enough to cope without it.
If an onlooker see us “giving” an addict drugs - he may conclude we are invoking the right to ignore the teachings of the religion under the guise of tolerance … But this matter should not be judged by our immediate actions … but by our longer term strategies. Society has a similar type of addiction to all things the desires want that oppose the religion.
The “orientation” should be towards baby steps of improvement towards our ideals - not necessarily a cutting off in an attempt to correct society overnight.
Those who claim to be “tolerant” however and allow the forbidden things and partake in them with no greater strategy for improvement and eventual purification and “weaning off” they are the ones who are doing such things in “a guise” …

This is an argument every second rate preacher makes: We don’t hate the sinner, just the sin.
That analogy works great when you’re talking about addiction. What about people’s inherent nature, like homosexuality. The only reason homosexuals are discriminated against is because of religion. Unlike an addiction, you can’t stop, or change someone’s sexual nature.
Fyi…you give heroine addicts methadone, not morphine. Also, some addicts, when you take the drug away from them immediately, will die. Singer Amy Winehouse is an example of death by withdrawal.
Brother Psyah, there is no panacea rigid religion gives you. The world is complex. Your gods are a reflection of the people that created them; ignorant and unmoving.

@psyah

Now after this long discussion let’s get back to this …
If people want to establish a pure perfect society in all honesty then they will ban alcohol entirely … because its negative effects on the mindsets of people clearly prevents that … Look for a society that is honestly trying to establish purity … the US is not that society at all.
Again Islam is not intended to be a utopia - it is intended to bring about the optimal state of society and it has been proven in history.

There are more responsible people that consume alcohol than don’t. By this measure, should we start to ban religion as well?