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*Originally posted by outlaw: *
So, are you willing to call your Indian army a state sponsored terrorist entity, since it has killed thousands of Kashmiri Muslims ? If yes, are you willing to denounce your country and give up your citizenship. It's not one temple or one house, we are talking about entire villages, ransacked by the Indian forces to avenge the lives of fallen comrades.
I am sure you will not have guts, since you can just talk the talk. Admit it, in fact you felt joyous when this incident happened, only because it would look Pakistan bad on global stage.
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Please stop ducking my questions sir. ** Why did your govt ban them?**
You don;t have the guts to talk about that and you talk about me?
In fact, you felt joyous that some Indians killed Muslims only because it would look India bad on global stage, didn't you?
BTW it was not just one temple - it was many, many.
What will it take for you to make a statement about Azam Tariq's release?
I say again - just because one has immediately condemned an act, does not absolve one of their government's actions such as release of terrorists. If the individual's attitude towards Shias or Christians is no better, than i would humbly believe there is no use in making condemnations on discussion boards
Talwar, you have not issued any apology, for you government actions. Neither, you have came forward to refute to allegations made against your country's armed forces. Quite frankly, it seems that you support the genocide, as long as the victims happen to be muslims.
Sorry Talwar but your replies did not truly shed light on where you got this "hundreds" figure, rather than the widely-accepted 2500. An independent, third-party source, please.
Thanks in advance, would be much appreciated.
>>If the individual's attitude towards Shias or Christians is no better, than i would humbly believe there is no use in making condemnations on discussion boards...<<
Personally i don't wait until someone forces me to make condemnations regarding the slaughter of any civilians, doesn't matter which religion they adhere to.
>>...it seems that you support the genocide, as long as the victims happen to be muslims.<<
Outlaw i agree.
Sorry. This is the impression i am getting as well.
I took pains to show NEUTRAL people saying “hundreds” killed.
Now, lets’ see your views on Azam Tariq release and Jaish terrorists release
Also, give " independent, third-party sources" for the “widely accepted” 2,500 figure please.
I’d also like to add, that 100s or 2,500 - Gujarat killings were a crime against humanity done by Hindu fanatics. I will not give lame excuses like “they were not true hindus” or such and escape. It will be a blot on all Indians’ consciences.
And what a pathetic attempt in doing so. All the reports you have cited were posted when the killings were still going on in February and March in large scale. If you are trying to be “neutral” then at least try to find final reports, after the large scale killing has abated, at least.
Btw, I still am waiting to see in which post in this thread that you have condemnded the attack on Christians in India - as you earlier claimed. You have spent all your two dozen or so post condemning Pakistan, but failed to do the same in the case of a similar attack in India on Christians, in this thread.
“We Have No Orders To Save You” - State Participation and Complicity in Communal Violence in Gujarat](India: "WE HAVE NO ORDERS TO SAVE YOU" - State Participation and Complicity in Communal Violence in Gujarat), Human Rights Watch (nonpartisan, independent, internationally-respected human rights organization). As Malik states, the timings of your reports cast some doubt upon whether or not the killings had infact finished by then. This HRW report was released in April 2002, still at a relatively early point of the genocide; it gives a figure of 2000. Some might need to look at some of the pictures in this organization’s photo gallery, to remind ourselves precisely what kind of depraved acts were committed in Gujarat. The caption under the picture about pregnant women and fetuses is revolting. A large-scale massacre of this sort is… beyond words.
6 May 2002 - Arundhati Roy (i am certain i don’t need to discuss who she is) gives a figure of “well over 2000”: Democracy: Who’s she when she’s at home?, Outlook India
It’s truly a shame that in a discussion where individuals are unequivocally condemning a Pakistani attack against Christians, someone ignores what is occurring in their own backyard and uses this as an opportunity to criticize the Pakistani govt. i think we ALL need to do less pointing at others and more self-introspection.
Yes, apparently you. Do you not read the reports that you post? Note what it actually says:-
More than 850 people have been killed in the Western state of Gujarat in the past two months, most of them Muslims. Unofficial estimates have put the death toll as high as 2,000.
And this is backed up by as I said later reports on the final totals, after the violence had somewhat abated. Here’s some proof in that regard:-
>>Why are you so reluctant to talk about Azam Tariq?<<
Who is more culpable - Tariq or Modi? If one believes the former, i suggest refreshing your memory with the pictures i referred to in my last PM, from Human Rights Watch.
The blood from Gujarat’s innocents is still fresh on Modi’s hands; until genuine justice is applied towards the remaining Muslims in Gujarat, i would suggest perhaps less criticisms of other governments would be a good idea. Otherwise, it looks a bit hypocritical to say the least.
Talwar,
Amusing how you insist that we should condemn particular groups in Pakistan, when you yourself are distorting the numbers of Muslims killed in Gujarat, to say nothing of openly doubting whether or not Modi is responsible. Please don't divert this topic.
The truth is for all to see
Yes, the truth is manifest for all to observe - it's 2500 Muslims who died in Gujarat, not "hundreds".
Of course not Nadia, after all even the most lastest source (the HRW report) he produced even said 2000 were killed, subsequently backed up by my later reports.
But everyone has seen in this thread that all Pakistani’s have condemned this attack on Christians without even being asked. Yet Talwar wants to be specifically asked before he condemns the genocide of Muslims in India. But still not found it in himself to condemn the attack on Christians in India yesterday, in this thread. What hypocrisy and double standards.
Your absolute refusal to condemn Azam Tariq is THE biggest hypocrisy on this thread.
How much more shameless can one get. You have been asked about 200 times on this thread but you absolutely will not find it in yourself say ONE word about Tariq either on this thread or on another thread
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Talwar: *
Malik,
Your absolute refusal to condemn Azam Tariq is THE biggest hypocrisy on this thread. How much more shameless can one get. You have been asked about 200 times on this thread but you absolutely will not find it in yourself say ONE word about Tariq either on **this* thread or on another thread
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Talwar, in my opinion an absolute refusal to unequivocally condemn Modi, (NOT vacillating/distracting by saying that he's not "legally responsible" or that it's actually hundreds, not thousands, of Muslims who died) - is hypocrisy of a larger measure i think. Without anyone asking us, we have condemned in this thread the attacks against Christians, we have never attached conditions to it, we have just outright condemned it without ever being told to. Would it be possible i wonder if you would perhaps do the same for Gujarat, by saying yes Modi is responsible and 2500 - as according to diverse sources - Muslims were murdered? Nothing more, nothing less, just this.
i'm afraid so, Malik. :( That is precisely what it seems like to me.
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Yes. I am proud that each Pakistani that has posted in this thread has condemded this attack on Christians in Pakistan. Not one of them said that they should be specifically asked to do so, before they would condemn it. Yet we here we have Talwar (as all can read) clearly stating that when he is specifically asked, he will condemn the genocide of Muslims in India. But then he excuses the architect of that genocide, Modi, and deliberately downplays the killings of Muslims.
Also, while he has spent pages and pages of posts in this thread condemning the attack on Christians in Pakistan, he has yet to come foward in this thread and condemn a similar attack on Christians in India.
