Is there a right or wrong way of going about convicting extremists? Should they all be put away because their views are a potential threat to the society and we can’t afford to take risks in the current climate or do we convict only those who are actively involved in planning/training to cause harm? How do the courts differentiate between a hate monger and a terrorist? How do they differentiate between hate mongering and freedom of speech? Is there a third category of a “potential terrorist” and does it apply to all political/religious/personal belief systems including the extremely conservative *and *the extremely liberal lot? And finally, what are your views on the statement that dozens of countries are using the fight against terrorism to curb political dissent?
Ever heard of patriotic act? :D ... eavesdropping is a right of the govt now.
A pilot or flight attendant can kick you out of the plane just because "they dont feel comfortable" with you being in the flight. NO further explanation is required from them to deny you your travel.
Life of a private citizen is no longer the same. Civil rights are gone down the drain.
turkey and china.. china, i sort of get, keeping up the pretense that all the central asian countries they keep passing off as within china is hard work. whats up in turkey though? kurdistan?
^ Yup they give a pretty good detail of what is up with Turkey in the link I posted above. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter is what applies to Turkey apparently.
OMG this post 9/11 craze pisses me off so much! every channel I flip too, their Republican faces are plastered all over it… arghh, annoying! Haven’t you killed more than enough? You have killed your own in the name of justice.. stop this 9/11 drama already! off-topic I know.. sorry
I don’t see a difference between a hate monger and a terrorist. Hate mongers kill and don’t tell but terrorists do..
So you’re saying there’s no right or wrong way, better safe than sorry, national security comes first.
Agree but this is where it gets interesting: **dozens of countries are using the fight against terrorism to curb political dissent.
**
What if Zardari started putting behind bars everyone who speaks against him, and labels his opponents terrorists? Who’s to say he isn’t doing that already?
mm i think a whole lot of pakistanis west of the indus are ending up in "invisible" prisons, but not because of zardari.. the feudal setup that gets him power has no serious fight against it.
^ True unfortunately and we, the average people, obviously have no say in who should be convicted and who should be freed, but it does make for an interesting discussion.
^they both kill... so no, i don't see a difference.
hmm I agree and disagree.
Agree because all terrorists are hate mongers and disagree because not all hate mongers are terrorists. I consider the likes of Geert Wilders hate mongers. As far as I know, he hasn't killed anyone. He was tried in the court but granted freedom of speech and was not convicted of hate mongering and definitely not called a terrorist. Anders Breivik, who shares the same views as Geert Wilders, is however a terrorist for obvious reasons.
^ True unfortunately and we, the average people, obviously have no say in who should be convicted and who should be freed, but it does make for an interesting discussion.
hmm I agree and disagree.
Agree because all terrorists are hate mongers and disagree because not all hate mongers are terrorists. I consider the likes of Geert Wilders hate mongers. As far as I know, he hasn't killed anyone. He was tried in the court but granted freedom of speech and was not convicted of hate mongering and definitely not called a terrorist. Anders Breivik, who shares the same views as Geert Wilders, is however a terrorist for obvious reasons.
the way you put it, yes, there's that difference. My point was hate mongers damage brains and that one way or another leads to hate crimes, which is terrorism..
And not all terrorists are hate mongers, like you said, some are just plaine freedom fighters and they kill without giving it a 2nd thought almost like soldiers. How do we differentiate?
My point was hate mongers damage brains and that one way or another leads to hate crimes, which is terrorism..
... Yeah I guess this is the reasoning why they're being put behind the bars now even for writing a hateful blog or something. Very stupid of them to do this in the first place considering how tense the current climate is and they can get into trouble for voicing their radical views.
And not all terrorists are hate mongers, like you said, some are just plaine freedom fighters and they kill without giving it a 2nd thought almost like soldiers. How do we differentiate?
Good question to which there's no definitive answer. It depends entirely on whether you agree with their point of view or not.
^ True unfortunately and we, the average people, obviously have no say in who should be convicted and who should be freed, but it does make for an interesting discussion.
not really. the average people have a say, but they choose to vote based on communal and feudal lines instead of other priorities. in the end, societies get the leaders they deserve, democracies or not.
Barbie you raise a good point. Over the last few days I have noticed there are loads of programmes on 9/11 as the tenth anniversary approaches. Most of these programmes revolve around that terrible day and the resultant tragic deaths which resulted from there. I have all the sympathy for the victims and their families and nothing but condemnation and hatred for people who carried out this disgusting act. However, I have felt very strongly that in all these programmes no one has even once mentioned the thousands upon thousands of INNOCENT PEOPLE killed in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and other places. I am not talking about Alqaeda, Taliban or saddam's army. I am talking about ordinary people who had nothing to do with this event. They lost their life and their loved ones are now missing them as much as the victims of 9/11. Yet not a mention about them. Are they not human? Is their life any less valuable than the ones who lost their lives on that terrible day. To me both set of people are victims of misguided policy be it an organization or a government who set out to avenge the death of their citizen and in the process killed many innocent citizens of other countries.
not really. the average people have a say, but they choose to vote based on communal and feudal lines instead of other priorities. in the end, societies get the leaders they deserve, democracies or not.
People may have a say in other matters but I don't think they do in the case of terrorism. I don't think the governments, be it obama's administration or zardari's party, are going to listen to our suggestions about how to deal with extremists. Or do they?
Barbie you raise a good point. Over the last few days I have noticed there are loads of programmes on 9/11 as the tenth anniversary approaches. Most of these programmes revolve around that terrible day and the resultant tragic deaths which resulted from there. I have all the sympathy for the victims and their families and nothing but condemnation and hatred for people who carried out this disgusting act. However, I have felt very strongly that in all these programmes no one has even once mentioned the thousands upon thousands of INNOCENT PEOPLE killed in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and other places. I am not talking about Alqaeda, Taliban or saddam's army. I am talking about ordinary people who had nothing to do with this event. They lost their life and their loved ones are now missing them as much as the victims of 9/11. Yet not a mention about them. Are they not human? Is their life any less valuable than the ones who lost their lives on that terrible day. To me both set of people are victims of misguided policy be it an organization or a government who set out to avenge the death of their citizen and in the process killed many innocent citizens of other countries.
I share your sentiments and this isn't something new, Ehsan uncle, I'm sure you've been noticing these double standards for a number of years now. Unfortunately a Pakistani's blood *is *cheaper than an American's. Pakistanis, Afghanis, they're all expendable. You're talking about the innocent people who have lost their lives and I'm talking about people who have become victims of other political agendas of countries like turkey and china using anti-terror laws for their own dirty ops.
You should also keep in mind the number of terrorist attacks that have increased so many times after 9-11.
I think the ratio of convictions and terrorist attacks is somewhat same.
