Re: Thoughts on this?
Desi guy+ tattoo = Tells everything
Thoughts on this?
What do 'desi and tatoo' have to do with rebelling?
Thoughts on this?
Yeah op, agreed with most. I think if they really like each other and want to start off on a good note, it would be best to wait a while before exposing a tattoo. Since she knows how her family can be. Concealer for that little part may work well or a bandage as well. Like someone said once they have formed an opinion it will be hard to make it right. If she feels like he's the right person for her, why let something so petty take away from that. It's the only thing that matters initially. Once their married, it will be between them and them only. If she appreciates it, then it works. :)
Re: Thoughts on this?
Shows how small-minded a person is if they really believe a tattoo is about rebelling..
Muslims who have tattoos often have them in discreet places which normally wouldn’t be noticed anyway.. how rebellious 
For most it holds some personal meaning..
Re: Thoughts on this?
tattoos are ugly.
I didn't take you to be judgemental type...
Re: Thoughts on this?
I luv Tattoos...the chick should go out and get a tattoo herself....that should leave them speech less...honestly that would be so awesome..
Re: Thoughts on this?
Nah I’m not judging, i didn’t say anything about people with tattoos. But I find tattoos in general ugly. But sure, they can mean something to someone and I get that. I can see y somone would have a quote or smthn or the ediacaran fauna :hmmmm:
Re: Thoughts on this?
If a Muslim was fully aware that tattoos are prohibited in Islam, then yes, that IS a rebellion toward Allah. If that tattoo covers a fairly large area of the body and is often displayed, then yes, it’s an open rebellion. Even if the tattoo is tiny and the placement is inconspicuous, it is still a rebellion if the person knew before hand of its prohibition. Rebellion is not underplayed or even negated by size or placement. If one was not aware of the prohibition, that’s something else. Yes, other sins such as consuming riba, zina, gossiping, not praying are also acts of rebellion…but they cannot and more importantly should not be used to deflect from or downplay other sins. It’s not reasonable or logical, but by nature most of us become defensive about our sins/mistakes.
I personally don’t mind tattos so much depending on the design; some can look tasteful. But it’s still a rebellion if it’s deliberately done when one knows the rulings. Saying that it has personal meaning is like saying it’s a personal statement. In that case fashion sense, your hairstyle, car etc are also examples of personal statements. However, these are examples of things that can be easily altered and can evolve with time, whereas a tattoo is usually done with the intent of permanence. This intent of permanence coupled with the person’s willingness to put themselves through physical pain (more pain than it would take for the usual body piercings) might be why the personal meanings/impressions made by tattoos are perceived to be a bigger deal by desis and non-desis alike.
Not sure why the henna example was used. It sounded defensive. Yes, there are many people who cannot stand the smell or look of henna. But culture and religion do not view henna and tattoos on the same level and you knew that. Whether or not tattoos tell you a great deal about a person’s character is subject to debate. It depends upon the individual and what things they can overlook. You and your husband both have tatoos…fine. We all have our preferences and what one person cannot look past may be a matter of rigidity or small-mindedness to another.
Re: Thoughts on this?
K..I like u again…as you said, don’t knock it before you try it, a girl I dated had beautiful tattoos and had an amazing intellect also. I love people with one foot in the wild side and one deep in the intellectual side, fortune favors the brave.
"Audaces fortuna iuvat. "
Re: Thoughts on this?
Red velvet@ ...with respect, Passing judgement is a much bigger rebellion to Almighty, isn't he supposed to be the only judge, didn't he say he forgives whoever he wishes and isn't there a hadees that if you have only but a dot of faith in your heart you will be in heaven...you don't live in the dudes skin maybe he is a nicer dude than many of us. I admire his courage
Thoughts on this?
Rv: Um no. A tattoo does not speak to the character of a person. Also, there's debate over tattoos and many do not believe they are prohibited. Not everyone leads a religious lifestyle nor are all Muslims the same in their practice.
Re: Thoughts on this?
If a Muslim was fully aware that tattoos are prohibited in Islam, then yes, that IS a rebellion toward Allah. If that tattoo covers a fairly large area of the body and is often displayed, then yes, it's an open rebellion. Even if the tattoo is tiny and the placement is inconspicuous, it is still a rebellion if the person knew before hand of its prohibition. Rebellion is not underplayed or even negated by size or placement. If one was not aware of the prohibition, that's something else. Yes, other sins such as consuming riba, zina, gossiping, not praying are also acts of rebellion...but they cannot and more importantly should not be used to deflect from or downplay other sins. It's not reasonable or logical, but by nature most of us become defensive about our sins/mistakes.
I personally don't mind tattos so much depending on the design; some can look tasteful. But it's still a rebellion if it's deliberately done when one knows the rulings. Saying that it has personal meaning is like saying it's a personal statement. In that case fashion sense, your hairstyle, car etc are also examples of personal statements. However, these are examples of things that can be easily altered and can evolve with time, whereas a tattoo is usually done with the intent of permanence. This intent of permanence coupled with the person's willingness to put themselves through physical pain (more pain than it would take for the usual body piercings) might be why the personal meanings/impressions made by tattoos are perceived to be a bigger deal by desis and non-desis alike.
Not sure why the henna example was used. It sounded defensive. Yes, there are many people who cannot stand the smell or look of henna. But culture and religion do not view henna and tattoos on the same level and you knew that. Whether or not tattoos tell you a great deal about a person's character is subject to debate. It depends upon the individual and what things they can overlook. You and your husband both have tatoos.......fine. We all have our preferences and what one person cannot look past may be a matter of rigidity or small-mindedness to another.
Henna was mentioned because it's also a personal preference which some ppl might find 'ugly' as well.. no more to it than that.. In our culture it's considered beautiful just like tattoos can be considered attractive in other cultures.. I could have said the same about body piercings or other 'adornments' which are often considered attractive in one culture but not another..
I'm not defensive about my sins and I'm not trying to downplay them.. If anything I was pointing out that certain others here downplay their own sins and choose to focus on sins which aren't common in our culture.. If something isn't done in their family or society it's haram but if every other person is doing it it's totally ok.. In western culture as Paheli also mentioned somewhere it's become commplace for people to have tattoos, even amongst the very successful.. The usual (ie smallish and inoffensive) tattoo is usually not taken as a sign of a person's character except by those who are very conservative or sheltered..
As for rebellion it's no more 'rebellious' than a million other things Muslims are doing which they shouldn't be doing every day.. I'm sure if I wanted to really 'rebel' in the sense PP was getting at I'd do something which was more attention grabbing than a small tattoo which is hidden from everyone bar my own partner..
Re: Thoughts on this?
hmmm Tattoos --------We must always view on larger Scale ---------IF GOOD WHY HIDE ??? Bcz there is a Stereotype about Tattoos ? then Why a Stereotype? --If a person believed it is an individuality and represent symbolism and expression ? then Why Hide it-- Show it to the world and don't be embarrassed?? everyone is giving advice for long sleeve --hide it ? if U approve of it again why Hide? be proud of it ?? Nay --tattoos are always been associated with negative impression-----and each and every person here knows that, even the person who is involved with this gentleman is concerned ..............................some said it should be done on places where it can't be seen ? why again ? So having said that --
Tattoos as such indicative of personality (not of All people) but self inflicted pain, the larger the tattoo the more pain --permanent skin pigmentation with Lead based ink that slowly sweep into ur body ? How many work places approve of Tattoos especially in highly respected professionals? A study indicates that at a later Stages of life not all but Majority of people regret having Tattoos --bcz then their kids wants it too ---and comes the dilemma ----------anyway there are other several negative issues related to tattoos ---I think a person must be honest and be brave of his/her actions --So if U believe in UR love - and U also believe Tattoos are no big deal for U------ then be open with UR family ---its better to be honest initially then later bcz then it will give more negative impression on UR mum /dad and others. My Sole opinion baba --------------I hope all turns out well and they accept the lady and the lad union ----------Love is above all ---------who cares about Tattoos --If I would be in Love I also would not care about tattoos --wattoos --or any other society base stereotype issues ------but I think every one thinks later in life ?? what ? why ?? -or may be its just MOI ??slapped on the wrong End ---------------------------------
Re: Thoughts on this?
SS, Eliminator, Deeba…nowhere in my post have I “judged” those who have tattoos. I have not said their character is deficient, or that they’d make poor spouses, employees, parents, and citizens. I have not said they’d go to hell. In fact, in my last paragraph, I even said that whether or not a tattoo provides substantial insight into a person’s character is debatable. So, why don’t you guys take the time out to read carefully before jumping to conclusions.
Deeba…so in your last paragraph you have said that “it’s no more rebellious than a million other things Muslims are doing which they shouldn’t be doing everyday.” It’s interesting how NOW…in this sentence…you have admitted to tattoos being a rebellion when in your earlier post you did not find it to be a rebellion and referred to those that find it so as “small-minded.” Is that not both a contradiction and and GASP a “judgment” on your part? Deny all you want, but YES it is.
You have also said, “I know I am sinning and I am not pretending I am not.” (which you edited) Anytime you are aware of committing a sin, that is a rebellion. If you’re going to say that some scholars say that tattoos are permissible, then WHY do you NOW call yourself a sinner and tattoos a rebellion? Make up your mind. You either see your tattoo as sinning or you don’t; and if you do see it as a sin, then it’s in accordance with the definition of a rebellion. And for argument’s sake, and I say this generally, some might even say that going against majority opinion is akin to rebelling.
You bring up the example of small tatoos and inconspicuous placements yet again. Why? As I said earlier, rebellion is not negated by size or placement. With this sort of mentality…it’s like saying, “Oh just a small amount of the forbidden and illegal… if it’s hidden…is just fine.” As Leap of Faith above said, if there’s nothing wrong with it, why hide it? Tattoos are not held in the highest regard in other cultures. So, not just a desi or Muslim thing.
And the henna example was unnecessary. If you’re going to use it to emphasize that people have varying preferences…then yes…that goes without saying and is not confined to temporary or permanent tattoos.
This notion that “it’s no more rebellious than a million other things Muslims are doing each day that they shouldn’t”…is a deflection from one mistake onto others. This sort of stance…I don’t care if it’s upheld by myself, you, or whomever…is regressive. It’s basically telling people if ALL the wrongs that you’re doing are okay…if you’re not going to stop committing your mistakes…heck I shouldn’t have to either. So, then everyone is doing what is wrong instead.
And before you and the others jump down my throat and accuse me of thinking myself holier-than-thou…that’s not so. I don’t follow every edict of Islam. The purpose of my earlier post was to show a different angle and to debate your belief that it’s not a “rebellion”…and you have confirmed my stance in my previous post by referring to it as a “rebellion” in your own recent response. :k:
Re: Thoughts on this?
What do 'desi and tatoo' have to do with rebelling?
A Pakistani with a tattoo is more out of place than a superhero in a Bollywood flick. Barring indigenous tribes, tattoos have always been a symbol of rebellion, associated with degenerate countercultures. Forget the shocked parents, let one catch light of day at work, even in the most liberal of your societies and watch your career go down the ****ter.
Again, there are easier ways to rebel and much classier ways of self expression.
Shows how small-minded a person is if they really believe a tattoo is about rebelling..
Calm down woman. It takes more than opinion on tattoos to figure someone out.
Re: Thoughts on this?
Omg he paid someone for that
Re: Thoughts on this?
Looking at the tattoo there are some positives here. One his taste is irrelevant. Your friend can let her self go and not worry about a thing. Secondly, he has penance to keep what others might consider ugly - around forever. This speaks to longevity of her relationship.
Go for it girl !!!
Re: Thoughts on this?
I've read somewhere that people who get tattoos are usually molested when they were children and to compensate their sanity they do some badassry like getting tattoos everywhere to seem that they're tough. Not sure if that's the case here. Can't you ask him to remove the tattoos? Or maybe put some fair&lovely on it or a "kit".
Re: Thoughts on this?
It depends on what it signifies to get a tattoo in a perticular environment. I still think most of the times its a sign of rebellion. Gangs and cults and rockstars and goths etc. Haven't heard of many other reasons why people would get tattoos.
Re: Thoughts on this?
Update
My friend invited the gentleman over to meet her family on Saturday. In the end, he wore a long sleeved dress shirt (really, what else would you wear to meet prospective in-laws?) but did not do anything to cover the small bit of tattoo on his hand. His reasoning was that going out of his way to hide the tattoo would, in essence, be apologising for the tattoo and he sees no need to apologise for a personal decision as there is a specific personal meaning behind the tattoo. Someone brought up the issue of whether or not my friend could ask him to have it removed. Another friend of ours once asked him if he would ever consider getting it removed and he stated that he would not and does not intend to for the same reason (personal decision). Also, given that my friend is not terribly bothered by it, I doubt she would ever suggest he remove it.
In regards to whether or not it affects his job, it does not. He works in an unconventional industry which is more creative and open to self expression. He double majored in media/mass communication and advertising and works at a record label. From what I can tell, the tattoo has not affected his job as he seems to have done quite well for himself.
My friend said that the meeting went quite well overall. However, her mum did ask about the tattoo and asked whether it is a problem at work and if he has others. He openly told her that he has had it for quite a bit now and has not had any issues at work and that he does have others though not visible. Her mum was a bit skeptical but was not majorly put off though. Her mum’s overall take was that we all go to our own graves and pay for our own sins in the end and that being the case, his decision to have a tattoo really only impacts him. She also said that at the very least, he has the balls to admit he has a tattoo and reveal his actual personality rather than pretending to be the perfect desi boy in public and in front of elders while being shaitan behind closed doors (which many people do these days).
An issue that was of greater concern to her parents was his job. Her father views the media industry as rather ephemeral and commented that he finds it doubtful that one can stay in a job like that forever as the media industry, especially music, primarily caters to the youth and youth culture. He pointed out that while he may be young now and good at his job because he is in touch with that youthfulness, he will not stay young forever and asked what he plans to do if his current job does not work out in the long term. Other than that she said her parents asked the usual questions and that it went rather well.