OK so lets see how far we can get this time. This post is about Ahmedis. I disagree with their assertion that they are an opressed muslim group - they are not muslims.
Furthermore, the fallacy of their religion (no punn intended) is further made clear by the fact that it is spread using money.
What do others think??
It was a British conspiracy against the Muslims in India and against the Jihad being that was being waged towards the Bristish. They wanted to break and cause trouble between the Muslim so that they cannot concentrate on their Jihad related activities towards them. So they came up with idea of “inventing a new prophet” so Mirza Ghulam AHmad was best choice for that. They paid him money and more money and well he started giving lectures and such declaring him self a prophet, messiah, Mehdi…etc, but failed to prove any one of them. ALL of the prophecies that he made, none of them came true. To make the story short, Mirza Sahib died of Cholera in Lahore I think.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Today, well british and non_muslims finance the few statellite channels that Ahmadies have. Why is this cult so dear to the Bristish the grand enemy of Muslims? The same british who helped Jews of the world to steal land from the Palestinians are helping the Ahmadies in their cause to break up the Muslims and cause more trouble. They use the name of Islam to call people to a totally different religion of Ahmadiyat, which has no basis in Islam what so ever.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
And Ahmadies are not Muslims, they are Ahmadies the followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
Ahmad G, stick to the topic.
[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited December 19, 2000).]
Ahmad G, did you read his post? What does your lie infested post have to do with that post?
Please its not good to lie in the month of Ramadan.
Moderator, can I open up some post about shia/brailvi, etc. beliefs? I hope I don't ofend them! Now that would fire up everyone around here wouldn't it? What about when people like Ahmad G post fabricated stuff and wrong infomation about Islam without any references, they are allowed to do that? Hey, they might be offending beliefs of Muslims.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
Watcher, you are right.
Ahmad G, you've been warned before,
In this forum, everyone's entitled to their own views, and u should be able to respect that. This forum is a place where people come to share information, learn from each other, and even debate. It is NOT a place to indulge in personal attacks or crusades defaming another's beliefs, values, and religion. Please keep that in mind.
It is NOT a place to indulge in personal attacks or crusades defaming another's beliefs, values, and religion. Please keep that in mind.<<<
GFQ. What do you suppose is the above post all about? It is interesting how you view “defamation”, but let’s move on.
Watcher and Alfaalfa. So you are saying that all Pakistanis who are living in Britain are there because the British gave them money to move there? That’s interesting. I am sure a lot of your brothers will take offense to that. Don’t tell me that they are there to prostitute themselves, because that wont be right. Well may be if you say so.
Coming back to the Wahabi issue, could you post a reference from your unholy book where it is said that Ahmadis are not Muslims. Quote the page # and other important stuff. Also quote something that says that Sunnis and Shias and others are true Muslims. I need these reference from your Book.
Defamation: to accuse falsely and maliciously, to slander.
It was a British conspiracy against the Muslims in India and against the Jihad being that was being waged towards the Bristish. They wanted to break and cause trouble between the Muslim so that they cannot concentrate on their Jihad related activities towards them. So they came up with idea of "inventing a new prophet" so Mirza Ghulam AHmad was best choice for that. They paid him money and more money and well he started giving lectures and such declaring him self a prophet, messiah, Mehdi...etc, but failed to prove any one of them. <<<<
GFQ, would the above fit into “falsely”, “maliciously” criteria? OK, may be not, if one only reads garbage that is fed to them. But is there any proof of the above allegations other than the books written by pimps, who engage in incest and rape 6 year old girls? If there are any, I haven’t seen one.
By the same token, I can say that all Pakistanis living in Britain are there because they rejected Islam. Don’t ask me for any proof.
There is no god, only ALLAH and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah costitute Islam. Prophet (PBUH) was the last of the prophets and DEEN-e-ISLAM was perfected by ALLAH (SWT) through Hu's last Messenger (PBUH). Who ever denies this very fact that Prophet (PBUH) is not the last among messengers is outside the fold of Islam.
[This message has been edited by Musalman (edited December 19, 2000).]
Apparently, NYA does not know much about history of his own creed. So sad.
NYA, ready to face the facts or do you wanna rave about someone offending your beliefs, when those beliefs of yours are written in your own so-called religious books?
Its your call pal, assumptions, or do you wanna gear this up with facts?
Take it easy.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**..lie in the month of Ramadan.
..,fabricated stuff and wrong infomation about Islam without any references
**
[/quote]
GFQ I appreciate your comment and I don't mind at all to be along with your regulations, but I do ask you to be fair with judgment. Where do you see me use such language as so-called watcher does? He keeps denying references becuase he wants me to give him links instead of book names and Schloar names. It should be sufficiend for anyone to know the book and the name of its author and on top of that I'm putting the page number as a full reference!
I will remain as I am, respectful and stright without any compromisation satisfiying the regulations of this forum. But I will not tolerate the disrespect nor the rudness.
Allah waliyu-l'Amr wat-Tadbeer.
<<>> Learning the Obligatory Knowledge of the Religion puts the Muslim on the road for excellence and self-betterment. Acquire The Islamic Knowledge!!
Ahmad/Islamic Studies
You tell me what's wrong with this.
Look how Wahhabies and jews are related to beliefs. I had to re-read their books and get the references for you because you think all of this is a lie. Well tell me what you think of the following beliefs.
The Jews say in their book "safar Youhanna al Is-hah" (4) number (9) jews say: "and praise to the one who is sitting on his throne al Haiyy.." So they believe Allah is in the sky sitting wal ^iyathoubillah.
Wahhabies say in their book "Majmoo^ Al Fatawah" 4th book, p/374 for ibn taymiah and he is their imam as they call him the master of Islam!! they say: "Allah seats Muhammad the on the chair with Him"!!! Which is clear Kufur to say such. That is not Islam.
Jews say in the same book number 26-27: "God said, we will make human on our look and format".. Look like God!!
Wahhabies say in the book called “Ahl Al Iman fi khalq adam”.. Authored by Hamood bin ^abdillah at-Tuwayjariyy.. Page 40: Wahhabies say: "Allah created humans looking like him (^ala Surati wajhihi)" A^outhubillah!! Allah said in Al Qur'an: [Nothing resembles Allah]..
Jews say in the same book page 4: "the lord is the father living in the sky"
Wahhabiah say in the book called "Rad al-Darmy ^ala bash-shar Al Mircy" and it is one of the their references p/82: Wahhaby author says: "Yes, He (Allah) is on his throne on top of the creations on the highest place"!! I seek refuge by Allah. Imam ^aliy said: "Allah existed and there was no place and now he exists as he was" that is without a place because Allah does not need the place. Allah does not need any of his creations. He exists without place does not look like any of his creations. Although some translated the Qur'an in some verses alleging their meanings wrongfully saying that Allah sits on the throne, that’s impossible, because Allah existed before the throne and he was without any place.
This is a very few of what Al Wahhabiya say.
Al-Albaniyy (Big leader of the wahhabies, died recently Al Hamdulillah) says: it's Kufur for the Palestinians to stay in Palestine"!! Look at Al-Liwa' Newspaper date 7/7/93 and book: "Fatawi Al Albaniy" p/18... Why did he say that? Ask them.
Also Al wahhabiah say that the believers other than them(!) are Kuffar and they are worthy of being slayed and their property and women and children are halal to be taken even though they praise the people of Shirk and the jews and the Mushriks of Quraysh who faught the Prophet Sallallahu ^alayhi wassallam and opposed him such as Abi Lahb and Abi Jahl, for, they are believers to wahhabies and they claim that they are most pious and sincere to Allah more than the ones who make tawassul and tabarruk to the Awliya’. Not only they had that belief, but they also wrote it and put in a book called “How do we understand Tawheed” Authored by Ahmad Bashmeel and it was distributed in Ridad year 1987.
And they declared blasphemy to the leaders of the four Madahib (As-Shafi^iy, Abu Hanifah, Malik and Ahmad bin Hanmbal) and to the followers of the four Madhahib. Yes they had the guts to say such ugly things. Look in their book “Ad-Deen Al Khalis” p/140 printed in Beirut/Lebanon.!!! Allahu-Akbar. Why? Ask them. Check the reference.
Want more? I don’t, but I shall give you more until you know who wahhabies are.
Al Wahhabiah say that lady eve is Kafirah!! And so they said that all humans are Children of Zina – Adultery!!! look into the same book p/160 Al wahhabiah say: “the truth that Shirk started from Lady eve (Hawwa’ wife of Prophet Adam).. I can not say more!!.
To them if you say “Astaghfirullah” (O Allah Forgive me) is haram!! Look at Magazine “Al Aman issue# 70 year 1980 p/20.!!
And they even went ahead and made takfeer (Blasphemed) a sahabiyy, a companion of the Prophet Aby Ayouub Al Ansaraiyy because he put his face on the grave Prophet Muhammad because he was visiting the grave of the Prophet excitedly to the Prophet. And that wahhabiy who made that takfeer teaches in Jordan. A man once told him why:? Why do you do that?! Al Wahhabiy said: “even if Muhammad (He means Prophet Muhammad the son of ^Abdullah) did that than the Prophet Blasphemed”!!!!! Allahu-Akbar, Allahu-Akbar, Allahu-Akbar. Astaghfiruka Rabiyy wa Atoobu Ilayk. A^outhu Billah.
And they say about Al Asha^irah and Al Maturidiayh (Whom are the Top Scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah) they say: “They are Kuffar.. “…!
If you want to know the truth about Muhammad bin ^abdilwahhab and his people, just read what his father and his brother and the people of his country say about him. His father was a true scholar as well as his brother and his father used to say “this child (about Muhammad bin ^abdilwahhab) will be a great danger to Muslims”..
And His brother Sheikh Sulaiman Bin ^abdilwahhab, may Allah have mercy on them because they were great scholars, Sheikh Sulaiman made a book called “ AL Sawa^iq Al Illahiyyah to refute the wahhabiayh” and in it he said to his brother and his followers: “However you have taken things by your own opinion and thoughts and you have opposed the Ijma^ and declared all of the Ummah of Prophet Muhammad as Kuffar”. Look into that book page 17. They blaspheme everyone who opposes them and they try to kill him. And that’s because of the orders that Muhammad bin Abdilwahhab got from his teacher Hempher the British spy!!.
As Hempher mentions in page 77 that the first bill between the treaties that happened between him and Muhammad bin ^abdilwahhab is: “To Blaspheme all Muslims, and to bid killing them and to take their money and to commit whatever unlawful with their women and to sell them..” Second bill: “to destroy Al Ka^bah claiming that it’s from the signs of the Idols…” Read the Book: “Hempher the British spy”..
And to prove that they are Wahhabies and that the name fits them is what was mentioned in a book they wrote by the name “Muhamad Bin ^abdilwahhab, his Salafi creed” .. it says: “when he met with the wahhabies in Makkah”.. and he says: “but the Wahhaby belief..” and: “They use Islam as a religion on the Wahhaby creed..”..
Another leader named Muhammad bin jameel, a wahhabiy lecturer in our holy Makkah says: “Wahhabiy from Wahhab, and it’s from the names of Allah..” and there he lied because wahhabiy from Muhammad bin Abdilwahhab the deviator.. Also they named a book called “The wahhabiy movement”
So, Al wahhabiyah are the enemies of Muslims and the lovers of the jews and blasphermers. I can not say more. If any think of what was mentioned above about wahabies to be normal let me know so I can avoid talking to him because there would be no use. You would argue with a jew or a chrestian about prayers! you would argue about beliefs in the true God.!!
Bringing the subject back!!!!
I would like to say that the creed of the Ahmadiya is baseless. If they want proof,then they should read al-Qur'an, where time and time again it is written that they should obey Allah and his rasool. Why then do they transgress and make associations with Allah and negate the finality of the messenger of AllAH - Abu Kaasim, Muhammed ibn Abdullah al Hashimi al Quraishi?
On the motive of this string, it is only to discuss ahmediya, and not targetted at one individual.
I have found the discussin with NYA quite amusing, he has a wit and a sense of humour.
All your comments were very interesting and amusing.....but u know wut...instead of criticizing one another we should learn to respect one another...
Remember.....not even a leaf can move with out Allah's permission.
If so many religions and sects exist in this world...it must be for a reason..and they would definitely exist till Qiyamah!
in short...God luvs to be praised in a variety of ways. So respect Him ..and every body else!
Everyone has a right to his Aqeedah...so its no use trying to influence anybody. Its no use trying to give anybody any advice...for if he's stupid he'd never follow it..and if he's smart...he never needed it in the first place...
Peace
Alpha, let me advice you one thing. Be carefull when you call somebody a Kafir, becuase if you call somebody a Kafir the Kufer will fall on either one for sure. I can call my self muslim and this is my right and is given to me by Allah and his prophet and nobody, I mean nobody on earth has power to take that right away from me. I have right to say Kalima, ALLAH IS ONE AND MUHAMMAD (SAW) IS HIS PROPHET, no body has enough power to take that right away from me. I offer prayer daily and nobody can come in between me and my Lord Allah Almighty. I recite Quran everday and nobody can take that book away from me. Don't play with fire, don't try to come in between GOD and HIS servant. If I am doing all the above, matter is in the hands of My God, not you.
Let me advice you again, don't come in between God and his Servant............
Enuff said
I am Out!!!!!!!
[quote]
Originally posted by johnd:
I can call my self muslim and this is my right and is given to me by Allah and his prophet and nobody, I mean nobody on earth has power to take that right away from me.
Enuff said
I am Out!!!!!!!
[/quote]
OK, which muslim have I called a Kafir? Anyone who affirms the shahada is a Muslim and I will never call then a kafir.
The discussion here is about ahmediya.
[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**
Please its not good to lie in the month of Ramadan.
**
[/quote]
It is really funny how you say ranmazan and the call Ahmadies non-muslims!
Now When Allah has given a person the right to be called muslim than why not let him(or are you internatoinal person to decide if some are muslims or not)
Remember 73 sects and that mean all 73 can be called muslim and you have no right to call one a non-muslim. It would really put your being a muslim or not in doubt!
Now let us get this clear
sunnis are not the only muslims
[quote]
OK, which muslim have I called a Kafir? Anyone who affirms the shahada is a
Muslim and I will never call then a kafir.
[/quote]
Nothing to discuss, I said shahada and I am muslim and if you or anyone calls me kafir, that Kufer will fell on him. Right or Wrong..
[This message has been edited by johnd (edited December 20, 2000).]
If anyone calls a MUSLIM (someone who accepts the shahada) a kafir, then they are wrong.
From this I can discount the ahmediya from what they have stated themselves.
I ask any ahmedi to say if he/she is a muslim and if they accept the shahada???
[This message has been edited by Alpha1 (edited December 20, 2000).]
[quote]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
**
Sighzamazoiders, NY Ahmadi, here,
'I have been writing in favour of the British Government from the past seventeen years. During all these seventeen years in all the books which I wrote and published I have been advocating to the people to be loyal to the British Government and persuading them to be sympathetic and obedient to the Government officers. I gave convincing lectures against Jihad and as a matter of policy I wrote many books in Arabic and Persian and published them in Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan abrogating Jihad and spent thousands of Rupees in this propaganda.'--Al Bariah, Declaration dated Sept.2, 1867, page No.3, by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani.
For the welfare of the Government, it is good policy to prepare a list of those Muslims who are against the British Government inwardly and who consider this coiuntry as enemy country. We hope that our wise government will keep these lists as state secrets in safe custody in one of its officers. The following are the names and addresses of such persons'--Tablegh-i-Risalat vol.3, page 11, by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani.**