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1

Hello,

Hamza had to leave country for some personal business and thus the forum became a non-mod ground for all sorts of discussions.

While this site is a Pakistani site and we do believe in Islam being the official religion, we have opted to let others post here for obvious reasons.

We do have many Muslim scholars on board, but no one is really ready to take on the job of a Moderator. Each side feels strongly about its philosophy.

If its a Muslim country, and ‘Muslims’ are the majority, then why do we worry about some posts? Why don’t the ‘Muslims’ reply? If Kafirs are thriving, why doesn’t any one do anything about it? Moderators are just moderators. We are not equipped with lathi danda to go after these ‘Kafirs’. It’s YOUR responsibility to respond. If you don’t, please don’t come back and complain that MODERATORs are not doing their job. We are simply providing a medium to voice your opinions while showing you an image of the prevailing society. If indeed no one is answering these so-called ‘Kafir’ posts, isn’t that what’s happening in real life? Are we Muslims cause we were born Muslims? What have WE done to earn that title? We (mods, admins) are no one to decide that. We are simply a medium.

In any case, if its time to revise our moderation policies for this forum, lets do it here, in this very thread. What do you want us to do? What’s wrong with the way we are handling things here? Please speak up.

We are going to disable general posting in this forum for 24 hours. Lets hear from all. We have also opened non-registered user option if you want to voice anonymously.

Admin

2

[quote]
Originally posted by Admin:
**
Hello,

Hamza had to leave country for some personal business and thus the forum became a non-mod ground for all sorts of discussions.

While this site is a Pakistani site and we do believe in Islam being the official religion, we have opted to let others post here for obvious reasons.

We do have many Muslim scholars on board, but no one is really ready to take on the job of a Moderator. Each side feels strongly about its philosophy.

If its a Muslim country, and 'Muslims' are the majority, then why do we worry about some posts? Why don’t the 'Muslims' reply? If Kafirs are thriving, why doesn’t any one do anything about it? Moderators are just moderators. We are not equipped with lathi danda to go after these 'Kafirs'. It’s YOUR responsibility to respond. If you don’t, please don’t come back and complain that MODERATORs are not doing their job. We are simply providing a medium to voice your opinions while showing you an image of the prevailing society. If indeed no one is answering these so-called 'Kafir' posts, isn’t that what’s happening in real life? Are we Muslims cause we were born Muslims? What have WE done to earn that title? We (mods, admins) are no one to decide that. We are simply a medium.

In any case, if its time to revise our moderation policies for this forum, lets do it here, in this very thread. What do you want us to do? What’s wrong with the way we are handling things here? Please speak up.

We are going to disable general posting in this forum for 24 hours. Lets hear from all. We have also opened non-registered user option if you want to voice anonymously.

Admin**
[/quote]

Hi there:

Time out please. Ghazi has a very point. If no one is ready to take a moderator's job, I'll. What you say. I am a Sunni Muslim and I and equipped with my own database of all major religions. I also have experience debating with Christians and Jews. The trouble we have faced here is that almost all posters on Religion forum are either Ahmadis or Hindus. That does not scare us. We (Irrefragable, Ghazi and I) would love to debate with reason and logic. We like to support our statements with facts. It has always been our style to use forensic and empirical results. But the darkside only stir non-sense and engage in senseless opinion. That prevents an enlightening and engaging debate/discussion. So far we have not found a single worthy opponent. But we must also not allow the forces of darkside that don't make sense. I think there are very few Muslims and some of them are reluctant to admit because of their low self-esteem or ignorance. But it is our duty to put forth the fact to neutralize the issue and prevent bigots and enemies of Islam from using our medium to spread lies and hate. They can argue, debate, and disagree. But they must not be allow to insult and mock what is very near and dear to us. When we came on these boards, we were mocked, intimidated, and abused..All we are interested in a healthy and constructive debate.

Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

3

i see.. Bubbly as moderator.. that is the right choice baby! aha!

4

Bubblu wrote:

They can argue, debate, and disagree. But they must not be allow to insult and mock what is very near and dear to us.<

It would have been really nice if you had shown the same courtesy while posting fanatically against christians, jews, hindus, ahmedis, etc.

All we are interested in a healthy and constructive debate.<

and all those maa-ki-gaaliyaan were "healthy and constructive" too, i suppose?

believe me bubblu, we are better off without a moderator than have you as one.

5

[quote]
Originally posted by queer:
**
Bubblu wrote:

They can argue, debate, and disagree. But they must not be allow to insult and mock what is very near and dear to us.<

It would have been really nice if you had shown the same courtesy while posting fanatically against christians, jews, hindus, ahmedis, etc.

All we are interested in a healthy and constructive debate.<

and all those maa-ki-gaaliyaan were "healthy and constructive" too, i suppose?

believe me bubblu, we are better off without a moderator than have you as one.**
[/quote]

Hey queer, you are acting like a vigilante for all faiths. But you are so ashamed of your faith that you don't clearly mention or admit what your belief is? Since you have spoken for many religions. But never showed guts to refute me with facts. Here is a direct challenge to you. You can take it to other Christians including Pope. Let me see how bright you are?

A CHALLENGE TO CHRISTIANS & queer

A $1,000 reward to anyone who can take all accounts of the resurrection in the four gospels, Acts, and 1 Corinthians 15, and write a single narrative in which he includes every event and detail mentioned in the separate accounts and do so without omitting anything or injecting inconsistency, contradiction, or purely speculative materials into the narrative.

*My wife who is a convert to Islam from Christianity will add another $1,000 dollar. That will make the reward $2,000 total. I'll give anyone bank guarantee acceptable worldwide. There is no limit or restriction on the numbers of participants. Every Christian can participate that means all the world's population of Christians. I'll even allow multiple entries. Take out your bible please and do it, right. You can prove us all wrong and defend your faith by proving it to be TRUE. *

If you are carrying the DNA of the same man whose name is in your birth certificate, you will respond to me.

Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

[This message has been edited by Bubble Buster (edited April 01, 2000).]

6

queer answer this, let me what you got?

The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?

In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) is mentioned. Matthew 1:6-16 and Luke 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus(PBUH). The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when all Muslims and most Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father(biological)?

Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

7

queer you asked for it!

Defendaer of religions (except Islam) answer these questions:

1.According to the Bible, Jesus is a common name. Then, why do you try to make it unique by spelling it differently?

  1. “Christ (Anointed)” is used for many. Do you still claim that “Christ” is unique?

  2. Why is the Trinity not taught in thirty nine books of the Old Testament?
    Is it not an important principle of faith? Why didn’t Noah, Abraham, Moses,
    David etc. preach that doctrine? Why did they preach just the opposite
    (Deuteronomy 4:39; 6:4; 32:39. Exodus 20: 2-3. 1 Samuel 2:2. 1 Kings 8:60,
    Isaiah 42:8; 45:5-6)?

  3. According to the Bible, are we not all children of God? (Matthew 5:9;
    6:14, Luke 20:36; John 8:47, 1 John 5:18,19)

  4. What about Mark 10:18-19?: “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked. “Only
    God is truly good!” Do these two verses not clearly state that Jesus was
    not God?

  5. If Jesus is God, what does Mark 13:32 mean?: “No one knows about that
    day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor I myself, but, only the
    Father.” If Jesus was Lord, how could he not know the future?

  6. What about Mark 12:29: “Jesus replied, 'The one that says, ‘Hear, O
    Israel! The Lord our God is the one and only God. And you must love him
    with all your heart and soul and mind and strength.’” What about Matthew
    4:10; 6:24, Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19?

  7. Matthew 12:17-18 quoting from the Old Testament, states that Jesus was
    the Servant of God. Is there not any difference between the Servant of God
    and God?

  8. Why do you ignore the verses expressing that Jesus was a “messenger of
    God” (Matthew 21:11,46; Luke 7:16; 24:19; John 4:19; 6:14)?

  9. Why does John 1:18 have a different text in different versions? Did
    Jesus see God or not?

  10. Why are all the verses used to justify the Trinity questionable? For
    instance, many Christian scholars acknowledge that the crucial word
    “begotten” in John 1:14,18 and 3:16,18 does not exist in the original manuscripts. Why, is the phrase “son of God” changed into “the onlybegotten Son of God”?

queer boy this not even a beginning. It is warm up. I said that I’ll tear apart Christianity, Judaism, Hindiism, Ahmadias/Qdayani with their scriptures. I mean it.

Bubble Buster
“The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion.”

8

If you are carrying the DNA of the same man whose name is in your birth certificate, you will respond to me.<

Another "healthy and constructive" comment, no doubt, from the wannabe mod. What gives you the idea that i am obliged to prove my paternity to every baboon on the net?

didnt know i had to tell what my faith is everytime i defend someone elses. i'm an atheist, and also believe that everyone has a right to choose his own faith, and that religion is a personal matter.

thanx for the lucrative offer, you can keep all your dollars. here's my offer - i'll buy you and wifey a cup of coffee if you can produce physical and scientific evidence of the existance of God. and when i say evidence, i dont mean quotes from any holy books, i dont consider them valid. if you can defend your belief in God scientifically, continue with your abuses in his name without my impediment, if you cant, can your hatred preaching sessions.

9

If a person claims he has seen no tangible proof for the existence of God and therefore he denies the existence of a Creative Force or God. He may not be aware that such a denial also needs proof. The question is does he have the tangible proof for the non-existence of God? One does not have a tangible proof for the existence of "life" on other planet(s), but that does not prove there is none. People at one time believed, what was "observable" by man was the Universe. Today, the same old Universe is known to be far beyond the human observation.

Consider this:

There are two neighbors. One is a Believer another is an Atheist. The hundred percent certainty is that they both will eventually die. The uncertainty is as to what could happen after the death. Neither the Believer nor the Atheist has the tangible and perceptible evidence to claim with hundred percent certainty that he knows for sure what is going to happen, after the death. So, the next best thing to do for this uncertain couple is to examine all the possible and plausible options and then evaluate the probable results.

Scenario Number One:

The possibility; There is nothing after the death.

Our life upon this world is the beginning and the ultimate end.

Result:
Under this Scenario both have nothing to gain or loose, after the death.

Scenario Number Two:

The possibility; There is some one called the Divine Supreme Entity.
In that case there is a possibility for accountability, after the death.

Result:
Under this Scenario the Believer has a better advantage while the Atheist has much to regret, after his death.

The Bottom Line:
The Atheist has a possibility of being at a disadvantage at the hereafter, if there is One. The Believer has no such disadvantage and as such no apprehension. He is thus more relaxed and at ease in life.

Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

10

**RE: GUPSHUP POLICIES **

Azkar salam-o-aadab

Sorry to put you in trouble bro, but these three musketeers, forced me to pen something.

Anyways your current policies regarding posting messages are absolutely legitimate and there seems to be no necessitate what so ever to amend it, viz;

I believe everyone will agree that these should be firmly observed. Negating them must be followed by couple of reminders while further opposition should result in permanent bar.

Here I need the necessity to quote deepblue- one of our most modest moderator, he once on a similar dispute wrote.

His thoughts are quite remarkable. I must say that abusiveness and discussions must not go hand in hand at least on gupshup floors. And everyone should have the right to participate in discussions without any discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion sex or language.

Despite of our diverse backgrounds and differences we were living as a family, until these bubloo brothers showed up and flooded the forum with lengthy extraneous cut and paste performance. To add further to the agony, usage of defamatory, erroneous, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented and threatening remarks is a must for them.

Now regarding the issue of moderator ship, I think most of us are pretty mature and holds a decent family prestige; we can enjoy more without a moderator (and without such bubbles, at the same time).

Thankyou Admin.

[PS1: babbloo, visit this site for your answer, and in case you got satisfied keep your $2000 to yourself, (we are quite well funded by british goverment) www.tombofjesus.com ]

[PS2: babloo, next time walk along the topic of the thread, don’t wander in the dark, you will get lost. No doubt you are suffering from ADHD]

11

I second BB's nomination for the moderator of this forum.
Queer dear, provide your DNA(and also Jesus's) or shut up, buckle up and watch the show.;-)

NOTE: Jesus is not son of God. These christians maliciously blame God, who is such a sweet sweet good-good guy, and I am sure he never had sex with anyone.(that may be one reason sex is such a taboo in all religions).

12

i agree with Zalim's views on the moderation policy for this forum.

Babloo,

that aint any proof of the existance of God, just a pathetic justification for following a religion lest there exists a God. going by your argument, if someone says unless you eat roast chicken-shit every morning, you are gonna be fried in hell, it would be good to practice it, lest it happens to be true. whaddya say?

Najoomi,

ok ok, i'm sending my DNA for paternity test, mitochondrial RNA for maternity test and cheek cells for sex test. Jesus sayz he's sleepy and is gonna wake up only by easter, so i couldnt get his samples, hope it's not too much of a problem.

13

Zalim, your logic is based upon pure animosity , insecurity, hatred , poor-judgement, and contridiction rather than facts.

In your post you've mentioned:

Despite of our diverse backgrounds and differences we were living as a family, until these bubloo brothers showed up and flooded the forum with lengthy extraneous cut and paste performance. To add further to the agony, usage of defamatory,erroneous, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented and threatening remarks is a must them.

Calling someone from a twisted name, in this case babloo, other than his original is abusiveness, sign of hatred and insecurity to me.

Who gave you the right to speak on behalf of other people; I am reading all this 'cut and paste' stuff and find it extremely helpful in enhancing my knowledge about Islam, thanx to these bros :).

Now, I went all the way back to their initial
posts and found out that BB's and Irrefragable's foul language was mere retaliation to all the degrading replies they
recieved, you may judge it for yourself.

I dare ALL OF YOU to come out in open and debate on the basis of facts than conjured-up personal hatred.

[This message has been edited by outlaw (edited April 02, 2000).]

14

aaaachhoooooooo, excusé moi mon ami!

outrageous pilot can you please turn off your helicopter fan, please!

15

Admin/Azkar:

Proposed Rules

Rules:

  1. Conduct. You may use the bulletin boards for lawful purposes only and you may not transmit messages which are threatening, abusive, defamatory, vulgar, obscene or otherwise objectionable. You may not transmit messages which encourage conduct that constitutes a criminal offense or infringe upon the publicity or privacy rights or any other rights of any person or party. If you engage in any conduct which might, in TOPP's opinion, inhibit or restrict any other user's enjoyment of the bulletin boards or violate the above restrictions, TOPP may remove your posting and/or cancel your access to these areas. TOPP, in its sole discretion, shall have the right to determine whether messages are in violation of these guidelines.

  2. Disclosure: To participate in religion forum you must disclose your belief. In a debate you must put forth your sources/references. If you failed to do that three times either in a row or otherwise, you are out. Three strikes and you are banned to participate in Religion forum.

General:

  1. Pak.Org shall have the right at any time to change or discontinue any aspect or feature of the GupShup Sites including, but not limited to, the Forum Areas, content, hours of availability, and equipment needed for access or use. Such changes, modifications, additions or deletions shall be effective immediately upon notice thereof, which may be given by means including but not limited to, posting on the GupShup Areas a revised version of this Agreement or notification by electronic mail. Any use by you of the GupShup Areas after such notice shall conclusively be deemed to be acceptance by you of such changes, modifications, additions or deletions. You agree to review the terms and conditions of this Agreement periodically to be aware of such revisions.

  2. Use of the Pak.Org Sites and the GupShup Areas.

A. The GupShup Areas shall be used for lawful purposes only. No material shall be posted on or transmitted through the GupShup Areas which violates or infringes in any way upon the rights of others, which is unlawful, threatening, abusive, evasive, defamatory, invasive of privacy or publicity rights, vulgar, obscene, profane, indecent or otherwise objectionable, which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, gives rise to civil liability or otherwise violates any law. No conduct shall be undertaken that, in Pak.Org's judgment, restricts or inhibits any other user from using or enjoying the GupShup Areas. Advertising or commercial solicitation may be posted on or transmitted through the GupShup Areas but only with Pak.Org's express prior approval and only if the advertising or commercial solicitation complies with all conditions imposed by TOPP.

  1. You hereby grant to TOPP,. And/or their respective affiliates the worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display any message posted in the GupShup Areas and/or any e-mail sent by you to TOPP (in whole or in part) and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media or technology now known or later developed.

  2. You may not (i) select or use a member name or e-mail address of another person with the intention of impersonating that person; (ii) use a member name or e-mail address of anyone else without authorization; (iii) use a member name in violation of the intellectual property rights of any person; or (iv) use a member name that TOPP considers to be offensive.

  3. The TOPP Sites contain links to other web sites, resources and advertisers. TINM is not responsible for the availability of these external sites nor does it endorse or is it responsible for the contents, advertising, products or other materials made available on or through such external sites. Under no circumstances shall TOPP be held responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any loss or damage caused or alleged to have been caused to a user in connection with the use of or reliance on any content, goods or services available on such external site. You should direct any concerns to such external site's administrator or webmaster.

  4. Monitoring.

TOPP shall have the right, but not the obligation, to monitor the content of the GupShup Areas to determine compliance with this Agreement and any other operating rules that may be established by TOPP from time to time. TOPP shall have the right in its sole discretion to edit, refuse to post or remove any material submitted to or posted on the GupShup Areas. Without limiting the foregoing, the TOPP shall have the right, but not the obligation, to remove any material that TOPP, in its sole discretion, finds to be in violation of the provisions hereof, otherwise objectionable or stale. Notwithstanding this right of TOPP, users shall remain solely responsible for the content of their messages. You acknowledge and agree that neither TOPP nor any of its affiliates shall assume or have any liability for any action or inaction by TOPP with respect to any conduct within the GupShup Areas or any communication or posting on the GupShup Areas.

Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

16

For some posters it is a ritual to allege anyone they don’t like or they can’t debate with reason and logic for copying & pasting or cutting and pasting?
But question is how valid this allegation is? Fact is copy and paste or cut and paste is a feature that every computer user is equipped with. This feature is designed to avoid typing, redundancy, and use of typed material in simple fashion for later use to prevent retyping. This feature provides a great help to those who are deemed to use same material over and over again, such as printers, publishers, scholars, intellectuals, and people who debates on public forum. So why the non-sense accusation? The people who are ignorant, intimidated, and do not possess any capacity to debate with reason and logic because they have no facts in support of their crapola use this as weapon. Their impotency to put forth forensic and empirical results can only find a refuge under this allegation, which gives them illusion that they are intelligent. Fact is that they possess less intelligence than a Pigeon on crack.

Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

17

i completely agree with queer. there is no need to have a moderator like bubble guy. he is always being rude, swearing, and degrading others. i don't think that islam teaches us that.

18

I agree with Zalim as well! Also, how about re-appointing Deepblue as moderator, provided he's interested!

Religion is a serious subject - one cannot allow it to be degraded like Bubbly & his chumchas have done!

If one wishes to degrade then pls proceed to Mega.buk buk!

19

Adminstration/Azkar:

BB (Bubble Buster) will make a best moderator. He has previous experience. Beside that can anyone name anybody who posses more knowledge on religions than we three BB, Ghazi and I? We have demonstrated that with facts. Contrary to that others have used and abused this forum. No one have even challenged or refuted any of us. It is all their inferiority complex that is barking. BB and I have responded to Kuffar's abuse and insults according to Noble Quran 16:126, which a Muslim is permitted to and required to.

It must be noted that BB and I did not started. This is a site, which represents an Islamic country. Since others are allowed here, but a knowledgeable moderator can only manage the Religion forum appropriately. These hate mongers are opposing BB, because they simply can't get away with their insults and abuse of Islam, Noble Quran, our beloved Prophet Muhammed (SAW) and Muslims. Also non-Pakistanis and non-Muslims must not be allowed to dictate or call the shots?

Can some one explain the reason of over whelming presence of disbeliveers on this small site? It is just to prevent Muslims to benefit from Internet, and just to waste their time in engaging in non-sense. We must approve BB's rules he has posted and appoint him a moderator. In that role BB will only manage the forum not retaliate as required by Islam. Fact is falling for Kuffar is a form of Kufr.

Irrefragable
Islaam Is The *ONLY Solution! *****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers]. Noble Quran 3:85*

20

[quote]
Originally posted by Asfia:
**i completely agree with queer. there is no need to have a moderator like bubble guy. he is always being rude, swearing, and degrading others. i don't think that islam teaches us that.

**
[/quote]

You know nothing about Islam.

Irrefragable
Islaam Is The *ONLY Solution! *****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers]. Noble Quran 3:85*