Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
Yes and therefore not anger the daughter of the prophet, as the message in the ahadith is that nobody should anger Fatima, during the life of prophet nor after.
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
So it’s OK to disobey the Holy Prophet :saw: and anger Allah :swt: by disobeying His Prophet because the daughter of the Holy Prophet :saw: will get angry?
I think any sane and intelligent person in the position of Hz. Abu Bakr 
would rather opt to anger the daughter of the Holy Prophet :saw: rather than disobey the Holy Prophet :saw: or anger Allah :swt:…
But that’s just my Aqeedah…
Maybe your Aqeedah says to disobey the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (saw) and earn the anger of Allah (swt) rather than disobeying the Holy Prophet (saw)'s daughter…
And keep in mind, the booty and charity is not confined to just the Holy Prophet (saw)'s family but to each and every Prophets of Allah (swt) and their families…
So that would mean that it was a Divine decree, not a Sunnah…i.e. it was the decree of Allah (swt) that none of the family of Prophet’s (PBUT) receive any booty or charity…
But I guess your Aqeedah places the daughter of a Prophet higher than all the Prophets of Allah (swt) and His decree…
So be it…You to your way and me to mine…Simple enough…
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
Just to prove someone me wrong you are totally ignoring the other side of the picture, the hadith “whoever angers fatima” does it not mean that propeht is saying do not anger Fatima, so by hurting her or causing her to get angry are you not disobeying Prophet ??
You mentioned that it was decree of Allah that none of the prophet’s family get any acquire any booty, can you please provide a proof of that as I can provide a proof for you from quran that other prophet’s family did recieve inheritance from them.
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
SAhi Bukhari Volume 8 Book 76, Number 585
"Abu Huraira narrated that the Prophet said, "On the Day of Resurrection a group of companions will come to me, but will be driven away from the Lake-Fount, and I will say, 'O Lord (those are) my companions!' It will be said, 'You have no knowledge as to what they innovated after you left; they turned apostate as renegades (reverted from Islam)."
This proves that even ashaab can be wrong does it not?
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
Well, on the other side of a picture is a Hadith which is related to something that happened between Hz. Ali and Bibi Fatima …
Here is a Hadith which not only reflects the Sunnah of all the Prophets (pbut) but a decree of Allah :swt:…
If, as you claim I am ignoring the other side of the picture, you on tghe other hand fail to see the picture altogether…
The Quran says many many times, ‘Obey Allah and follow the Messenger’…Again and again and again…
Nowhere does it say do not anger the Prophet’s daughter…Does it say that anywhere in the Quran?
So what does Hz. Abu Bakr do? He does what Allah :swt: tells him to do…Obey Allah and follow the Messenger…
If Obeying Allah :swt: and obeying the Messenger means angering the daughter of the Prophet :saw:, then so be it…
She asked for something which Islamically she had no right to receive, Hz. Abu Bakr being the nobility that he is, refused her rightly…
If that makes her angry, so be it…
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
So angering the daughter of the Prophet :saw: can lead one to apostasy and rebellion while disobeying Allah :swt: won’t…
Hmmm…Now this Aqaaid makes me wanna go hmmm…
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
The Quran says many many times, 'Obey Allah and follow the Messenger'...Again and again and again...
Nowhere does it say do not anger the Prophet's daughter...Does it say that anywhere in the Quran?
Are you doing this on purpose or do you really not understand that the hadeeth in question is of same messenger that quran is telling you to follow??
That the same messenger said do not anger Fatima?? Or was it a differnet propeht??
The same quran says proves that faimly of prophets is elligible for inheritance?? or is it a different quran??
You keep going on and on in circles, please first try to understand the discussion and then come back and contribute if you have anytihng worth contributing otherwise please stop runnig around in circles, it will get you nowhere.
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
OK, for the sake of this discussion, let’s assume that Hz. Abu Bakr gives the charity to Bibi Fatima …Because she asked for it…(Forget whether she deserved it or not or had any rights to it…)
What mistake would Hz. Abu Bakr be guilty of?
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Disobeying Allah :swt:…
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Disobeying the Holy Prophet :saw:…
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Going against the Sunnah of all the Prophets (pbut)…
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Going against the teachings of Islam…
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Usurping the rights of the Ummah by giving Bibi Fatimah
what she had no right to receive… -
Denying the rights of those people who deserved to receive that charity…
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Setting an example to future Muslims of disobeying Allah (swt) and the Prophet (saw)…
By refusing her, Hz. Abu Bakr ,
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Obeyed Allah (swt)…
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Obeyed the Messenger (saw)
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Upheld the Sunnah of the Prophets (pbut)
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Upheld the teachings of Islam…
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Upheld the rights of those to whom that charity belonged…
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Secured the Amanahof the Ummah…
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Set an example of obyeing Allah (swt) and the Messenger (saw)…
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Prevented Bibi Fatima (razi) from doing something which was wrong…
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Prevented Bibi Fatima (razi) from taking something which was not rightfully hers…
Now you tell me, since you accuse me of running around…I light of all these things, is that Hadith (Whoever makes Fatima angry…)more important or the Quran?
If you think that the Hadith is more important and that Hz. Abu Bakr (razi) did the wrong thing by angering Bibi Fatima (razi), then hmmmx2 to your aqaaids…
If you think the Quran is more important, then you should know that Hz. Abu Bakr did the right thing as per the Quran which then nullifies the Hadith (Whoever makes Fatima…)
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
"Abu Huraira narrated that the Prophet said, "On the Day of Resurrection a group of companions will come to me, but will be driven away from the Lake-Fount, and I will say, 'O Lord (those are) my companions!' It will be said, 'You have no knowledge as to what they innovated after you left; they turned apostate as renegades (reverted from Islam)."
This proves that even ashaab can be wrong does it not?
I'm sure you understand the words bolded unless you have your own definitions.
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
good that u finally realized such a thing…
i do not consider either Abu Bakr (ra) or Fatima (ra) to be infallible…
both cud very well have made mistakes…
but why do u (and all shiaas) never consider that maybe Fatema (ra) was wrong…
i have never heard Abu Bakr (ra) doing injustice to anyone so i do not expect him to do so with the daughter of the Prophet (saw)…
Fatema (ra) might have not been knowing the inheritance rule and hence claimed the property…
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
If you forget about the most important part which is that she did deserve and had rights to it you are claiming that Hz Abu Bakr would be
But if you realize that it was her right then by giving her the charity he would have
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Obeyed Allah (swt)…
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Obeyed the Messenger (saw)
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Upheld the Sunnah of the Prophets (pbut)
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Upheld the teachings of Islam…
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Upheld the rights of those to whom that charity belonged…
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Secured the Amanahof the Ummah…
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Set an example of obyeing Allah (swt) and the Messenger (saw)…etc…
Is this correct or not??
You also mentioned that it was against the sunnah of all the prophets to inheritance for their family members .
Allah (swt) declares in Surah Naml 027.016:
And Solomon was David’s heir. He said: “O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)”
Al-Qur’an, Surah 27, Ayah 16, translated by Yusufali
Various books of Ahl-e-Sunnah proves that prophet Sulayman inherited his father’s worldy posession here is a list of few of the books
- Tafseer Khazan Volume 5 page 112, Surah Naml
- Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 5 page 193 Surah Naml
- Tafseer Rul al Ma’ani Part 19Page 170 Surah Naml
- Tafseer Mazhari Part 16, Volume 7 page 100 Surah Naml
- Tafseer Muraghee Part 19 page 127 Surah Naml
- Tafseer Jauhar Volume 13 page 135 Surah Naml
- Tafseer Gharab al Qur’an Part 18 page 88
- Tafseer Kashaf Volume 3 page 140
- Tafseer Mu’allim al Tanzeel under the commentary of Khazan Volume 5 page 112
- Tafseer Fathooath al Ilayha Volume 3 page 202
- Al Bidayah wa al Nihaya Volume 5 page 290
- Tareekh Abu’l Fida Volume 1 page24
Do you want me to mention what it says in all this books or is the reference enough.
To David We gave Solomon (for a son),how excellent in Our service! Ever did he turn (to Us)!
Behold, there were brought before him, at eventide coursers of the highest breeding, and swift of foot;
Al-Qur’an, Surah Sa’d, Ayah 30 & 31, translated by Yusufali
These horses were inheritance, so it is proved beyong any doubt that prophets do leave inheritance for their family members, and these are the ayat’s Bibi Fatima quoted in her khutba in refuting Hz Abu Bakr’s claim that prophets do not leave any inheritance.
So now in light of all this you tell me is that Hadith (Propehts do not leave inheritance (used by Hz Abu Bakr to refute Bibi Fatima’s claim…)more important or the Quran?
If you think that the Hadith is more important and that Hz. Abu Bakr did the right thing by angering Bibi Fatima, then hmmm x infinite to your aqaaids…
If you think the Quran is more important, then you should know that Hz. Abu Bakr did the wrong thing as per the Quran.
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
who gave you the right to decide that who is right or who is wrong?You are coming with one hadith and keep aguing.Are you trying to being the example of those who will in end times become scholars of 1 hadith?
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
We do not follow the religion taught to Sulaiman :as: or Daud :as: and neither do we follow any of their Sunnah…Islam is our faith, Mohammed :saw: is our Prophet and Quran is our book…Maybe they were given some other Commands by Allah (swt), but we don’t know that and we don’t care…What our Holy Prophet (saw) teaches us is what we follow, whether other Prophets (pbut) taught then or not…
[/quote]
No Hadith is more important than the Quran according to Sunni beliefs…The Quran stated “Obey Allah and follow the Messenger” and Hz. Abu Bakr did exactly that…He obeyed Allah :swt: and followed the Messenger (saw)…
The Messenger said, the family members of Prophets (pbut) have no share in any inheritance…According to Quran, Hz. Abu Bakr (razi) followed the Messenger and made sure the Holy Prophet (saw)'s family did not receive any inheritance…Allah (swt) was obeyed and the Holy Prophet (saw) was followed…Whatever came afterwards is null and void…
…And let not the hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety… (Quran, 5:8)
In order to villify Hz. ABu Bakr you are again and again reiterating the incident that Bibi Fatima (razi) got angry…
So what? Is the Hadith of making the Prophet :saw:'s daughter angry more important that obeying Allah and his Messenger?
Not according to Sunnis…According to Sunnis if the whole world is angry at you, you obey Allah (swt)…And obeying Allah (swt) is the foremost duty of a Muslim even if the Holy Prophet (saw)'s daughter gets angry or not…
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
It will be more good if you call yourself Muslim instead of sunni.MashaAllah you have a good understanding.
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
Ok so now you change your stance that its not about sunnah of other prophets where as in your earlier posts you stated
So you don’t come right out and admit it but atleast you drop that stance.
NOw it basically boils down to Hz Abu Bakr’s words against those of Bibi Fatima.
Shall we look at what were the statements made by the two parties
He claims that prophet told him that Rasools do not leave inheritance where as I proved from quran that they do. So now you are claiming quran is more imp then hadeeth but at the same time your whole argument is based on a hadith that goes against quran.
Brother I don’t mean to insult anyone’s belief or hurt anyone’s feelings but please just step back for a bit and thnk about it, the quran proves that prophets do leave inheritance for their family where as the hadith that Hz Abu Bakar used to refute Bibi Fatima’s claim says they don’t, which of the two would you prefer to follow.
I know its extremely difficult but forget about the parties involved and think for a second that Hz Abu Bakar is not infallibe so maybe he was mistaken specially since the hadith he is quoting is contradicting Quran.
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
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The fact about the Prophets (pbut) not leaving any inheritance are not my words…They are the words of the Holy Prophet :saw:, hence that would mean it is a Sunnah of all the Prophets (pbut)…
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As far as leaving inheritance is concerned, who cares if Sulaiman or Daud :as: received or did not receive inheritance…Do you follow their Sunnah? And the books you quote are Shia books and I don’t accept their validity…Sorry…
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Sulaiman (as) is mentioned as a heir of Daud (as)…In what? I Dirhams and Dinars and horses? No…He is a heir in prohethood as Yusuf (as) was to Yaqub (as)…
Here’s another Hadith…
**“Scholars are the heirs of prophets, and prophets neither left behind dinars nor dirhams (Arab coins); rather they left knowledge. He who acquires knowledge has really gained something of great value.” **
This is from Hadith…
From the Quran:
Surah Maryam:**
4 Saying: "My Lord! Indeed my bones have grown feeble, and grey hair has spread on my head, And I have never been unblest in my invocation to You, O my Lord!
5 "And Verily! I fear my relatives after me, since my wife is barren. So give me from Yourself an heir,
6 “Who shall inherit me, and inherit (also) the posterity of Yaqoob (Jacob) (inheritance of the religious knowledge and Prophethood, not the wealth, etc.). And make him, my Lord, one with whom You are Well-pleased!”.
7 (Allah said) “O Zakariya (Zachariah)! Verily, We give you the glad tidings of a son, His name will be Yahya (John). We have given that name to none before (him).”**
Does this mean that inheriting from the posterity of Yaqub :as: means inheriting wealth? Is that what you think?
And while searching for your answer, I came across this:
http://experts.about.com/q/947/3261143.htm
Inetersting to say the least…Perhaps you can first refute what’s in these books of yours before you bring your books as proofs…
(For some reason you have to click the link a couple of times…)
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
Why is this thread even open? 
Curious hasnt opened this thread so he can gain knowledge and change his opinion abt something. He’s only opened it to argue.
I dont know how you can go bashing on somebody to who Allah himself has guaranteed Jannah!
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
And word of god is
**And Solomon was David’s heir. He said: “O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)”
**Al-Qur’an, Surah 27, Ayah 16, translated by Yusufali
Now either believe that hadith is more important to you than quran (which I hope is not what u believe) or admit that propeht was going against the teaching of quran (nauzobillah) or else the last and only sane solution is to admit that the above hadith is not true and that prophet would never say such things that go against quran.
Now I knwo you are going to come back and argue that these are shia books, so let me cut and paste what I said in my earlier post.
Various books of Ahl-e-Sunnah proves that prophet Sulayman inherited his father’s worldy posession here is a list of few of the books
- Tafseer Khazan Volume 5 page 112, Surah Naml
- Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 5 page 193 Surah Naml
- Tafseer Rul al Ma’ani Part 19Page 170 Surah Naml
- Tafseer Mazhari Part 16, Volume 7 page 100 Surah Naml
- Tafseer Muraghee Part 19 page 127 Surah Naml
- Tafseer Jauhar Volume 13 page 135 Surah Naml
- Tafseer Gharab al Qur’an Part 18 page 88
- Tafseer Kashaf Volume 3 page 140
- Tafseer Mu’allim al Tanzeel under the commentary of Khazan Volume 5 page 112
- Tafseer Fathooath al Ilayha Volume 3 page 202
- Al Bidayah wa al Nihaya Volume 5 page 290
- Tareekh Abu’l Fida Volume 1 page 24
Brother since when did all these books become shia books, or just to keep arguing you decide to ignore the fact that I clearly mentioned in my post that all of these books are not authored by shias but rather by sunnis.
Brother I care and you sould too as they were propehts and since they received inheritance then there is no way propeht Mohammad (PBUH) make such a statement that us propehts do not leave any inheritance. If Suliaman and Daud received inheritance then it means that the hadith quoted by Hz Abu Bakr contradicts quran and hence its not a true hadith.
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
lol…
I don’t even know if these books exist or not…Or even if they did exist, who is to know if that’s exactly what’s written in them…it’s not like everybody has these books in their homes…
Besides, why would you accept what’s written in other, minor Sunni books and deny the most authentic Sunni book of all, the Sahih Bukhari?
But like I said before, if it serves your purpose to villify Hz. Abu Bakr , it becomes more authentic than the Quran…
Hz. Abu Bakr being the noblest Muslim after the Holy Prophet :saw: did what was required of him with honour…He obeyed the Law of the Quran: "Obey Allah and follow the Messenger…
And if that act angers the daughter of the Holy Prophet :saw:, so be it…The first allegiance is to the Command of Allah :swt: and Hz. Abu Bakr carried it out faithfully…
You are welcome to pursue any Hadith you wish whether the Quran supports it or not…
Re: Things that (should) make u go hmmmmm
First your argument was that they were shia books now you are not sure of their existance, I see a pattern developing there.
I don’t accept what’s written in other major sunni books just used them to prove my point that even your authors admit to what I was claiming.
No that’s not true I used quran to prove my point where as you are relying on your blind faith that since Hz Abu Bakr quoted a hadith it must be true even if it goes against quran.
I wish you really believed that since it is Allah’s word that prophets do leave inheritance which you do not want to beleive as it goes against hz Abu Bakr.