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to itsme, you may be surprised to find that in the more western-type perspective, a parent whose child "leaves them" in their old age indicates a sucessful parent who raised an independent and successful child. The outlook on this is SO different between eastern and western cultures.
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The guy and his parents are eastern and so are their values, if she doesnt wanna deal with it then she can move onto someone else(prefebly someone with western values). Suggesting that the guy leave his parents or stay as far as he can away from them is ridiculous and unbelievebly selfish!
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He said "leave you when you are OLD." Old here implies when you are senile, lonely, frail, terminal, immobile and demented, not when you are 45 and want the kids out of the house so you can frolick like rabbits.
Reminder: Laquisha wont be gentle to push that bedpan underneath you when it's time to pee.
I volunteered at a geriatric unit of a hospital for three months. Most of the old people were depressed not because they were sick, but because they felt abandoned by their loved ones. My personal experience.
It's fair to want to have the services once rendered to your children--whom you raised from infancy -- to be reciprocated when it is your turn to be treated as an infant.
King James Version; Psalm 71:9
Cast me not off in the time of old age; forsake me not when my strength faileth.
Apologies for going off in a tangent, please carry on with the mirpuri discussions.
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I think that this is probably one of the most misunderstood issues between east/west. I don't know any people who actually abandon/don't take care of their elderly parents. In fact, the children of my elderly neighbor are trying to force the parents to move in with them, but the parents want to stay in their home for absolutely as long as they are physically able. My grandparents were the same way - they absolutely did not want to move in with us and leave their home. Instead, my aunt stopped by every day twice a day to help with medications, visit, etc. My parents visited twice a week even though we lived more than an hour away, and finally, my grandfather moved in with us. Unfortunately, after he had his stroke, he required care that we were not able to provide at home. My grandmother still refused to leave her house, and so my aunt and cousins continued to provide daily care, along with a home healthcare nurse who stopped by to take her blood pressure and check her blood sugar levels. My cousin and I alternated and spent my summer vacations with her. My aunt and grandmother went to the nursing home every day to visit with my grandfather and play cards, etc., and we continued to visit 2-3 times a week. My grandmother continued to drive until a week before she passed away, and drove probably better than a lot of young people I know. To her, giving up driving was giving up a part of her independence, and that was something she was not willing to do. We agreed that as long as she could pass the state exam, she could continue to drive.
My other grandmother was widowed very young, and lived with us when she decided that she didn't want to live on her own anymore. It was her choice, and it was not easy for her to make it, as it signalled giving up her independence, something that she didn't want to do.
Another situation that I know of, a woman moved into a nursing home in this town after the death of her husband and a severe stroke because she wanted to die in the same place she was born. Her children were against it, but did what their mother wanted. They visited every two weeks, becasue they were in another state and quite far away. She had cousins who lived locally and visited her at least twice a week.
Only the most callous children abandon their parents in their old age, just because parents may not be living with their children doesn't mean that the family is not close or that arrangements have not been made for care to everyone's satisfaction.
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I don't see the role of an elderly person as one who has suddenly grown helpless when they have reached a certain age, and I'm not comfortable waiting on people who are able to do things. The business of sitting around is one that many elderly people in Pakistan do, it is expected at some point in their lives, at a certain age that a parent will no longer have to do anything. This makes the elderly older and more ill than they should be. With some of the highest rates of diabetes, obesity, and a general lack of good health it compounds medical problems as well as the over all well being of the elderly. Much of the elders look older than what they actually are, while in the US it is not uncommon to find that older individuals look younger. ng on people who are completely capable of doing for themselves. Obesity is common, diabetes is out of control, an improper diet adds to the lack of energy or motivation to do much, a lack of movement on a consistent basis contributes to stiff joints, difficulty in moving and bone diseases.
I think desis don't understand that letting the elderly move isn't a form of torture, and over pampering is more harmful to your parents than helpful, and is harmful to their health and at times even their lives.
I find it offensive that one is granted life by Allah yet you choose to do nothing with it. Kind of like having an illness but seeking no treatment, if you have health yet spoil it for no other reason but not doing much of anything you are loosing out on the blessing Allah has given us. Getting old doesn't mean we suddenly become helpless, unable to do for ourselves or for others as we would like to. It does suggest that there is more time to focus on oneself and a time to live out dreams or do the things we always wanted to but were hindered due to our offspring. I look forward to travelling and finally being able to enjoy vacations at a pace that I want to go.
While we in the US do need to get over the idea that losing independence as we age makes us less of a person, elderly in Pakistan need to be less dependent on the younger generation for every thing. It won't kill anyone to move a little more and find a hobby - it may even save their life!
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:k:
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Being raised in more western tradition, I (PERSONALLY!!) would never move in with my grown children, no matter how frail or senile I become. I'd rather move into one of those old-age homes. I'm raising my boys to have their own, independent, successful and happy lives, NOT to take care of me when I'm grown feeble!
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be prepared to eat lots of dhaal and saag. Mir pureeay like savng money as they are kanjoos and they r very backward and illiterate.
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moving in and moving to a house near parents are two different things.
I personally dont mind either of them (1st one means that you need to have a huge home).
The second one is more appropriate, since it gives both you and your wife, as well as your parents privacy; also this way you can keep in touch more frequent.
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[quote=KAKA-ATOM-BUM]
**The key is ur hubby. Its a mans job to know the place of his wife and his family and how to handle it all. **
[quote]
:k:
totally agree!! can’t stress this enough! Balance is the key! but sadly, most pakistani guys aren’t good at balacing relationships…thus:- wife vs. mother revalry (typical saas bahu senarios in every desi household)a guy should have a strong personality and should know how to handle such delicate relations with love and respect. there is definately shortage of sensible men out there…
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^^ :k:
but it is really difficult to balance they (wife and mother) have decided not to get along togather. In that Case, yes moving further is better.
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No one is talking about caring for them when they need medical attention or grow feeble. Its about bonding and love and being close to your loved ones. Like someone said, most old folks in the nursing homes are depressed because they have no loved ones around them. Its not the care they miss, its the closeness of the loved ones. You can call it independance or freedom or whatever you want, your old folks deserve your love and time. You can never love and care for them enough for what they have done for you. I fail to see that kind of closeness in the western society.
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Then you haven't spent much time around non-desi families - not only is my family much closer than my husband's, or any desi family that I know, but we don't do that ridiculous "don't talk to aunty because we're mad at her right now", comparing the kids, who has the biggest house, and other nonsense. If someone does well in my family, we're happy for them, not jealous. And there is certainly none of the "don't spend too much time with your wife's family" or expecting a ridiculous amount of gifts from family members who live far away when they visit. No one in my family or anyone else's that I know would have ever considered fighting over the stuff that goes on in desi families, which is why I was so unprepared for it after my marriage. Who knew that you have to watch every word that comes out of your mouth around your own family?
A little bit of 'personal space' or whatever you call it is beneficial to the relationship, imo. Look at the smaller towns and see how many people have either moved back after having kids or never moved away - and you will see a different picture of 'western society'.
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:k:
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Try not to assume that they hate you. It must have taken a lot for them to come over to your home. I think it shows an effort on their part. Wearing traditional clothes is fairly normal for a lot of people. In time, you will slowly pick up phrases and be able to communicate with them. I’m sure they will make some effort to, with time, once you both get to know each other. Just like it’s a huge adjustment for you to handle their cultural customs, it will be a huge adjustment for them too.
I, personally, totally detes the idea of living with the in-laws … but I think in my old age, I am slowly starting to come around. I don’t think there is really anything wrong with living in close proximity as your in-laws … be it on the same street or a few blocks away to make you more comfortable. However, like someone above mentioned, set the boundaries from the beginning - like you will not go over for dinner everyday and vice versa and you won’t tolerate any interference from his siblings or parents and you won’t appreciate them coming over every single day, till all hours of the night. Call beforehand if possible to see if you are free. Living in close proximity, or even in the same house, doesn’t mean that they can control you, or that you need to do everything together with your in laws and cannot have your own life. That being said, you and your in-laws may eventually get along, so there won’t be any need for you to lay down the law, inshallah.
I do understand where Amna is coming from cause I have seen plenty of people engage in that kind of behaviour living here in North America. Yeah, it is extreme, but it certainly happens. It isn’t as far-fetched as some may believe.
Anyway, how do you know they despise you? 
If they have done something in the past, I hope your husband is aware of it and takes that into consideration when deciding on where you both live. Talk to him, see what he says.
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^^ well word of advice , you are taking on quite a challenge here, Mirpuri doesnt get along with other pakistanis even born and bred here or from Pakistan.
they try to keep the traditions of mipur villages let alone Pakistani cities.
If you and hubby are fine with it, it will be hard in family gathering and etc but its good that you dont understand mirpuri so you will not listen to gosips behind you and looking down on you and your hubby as you people have commited a crime.
so be prepared. you living separate but still on same street
what is expected off you is quite few things. always agree to what your inlaws says , be ready for random visits without warning from in laws/
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I would too actually BUT having traditional pakistani parents and in-laws I am sensitive to their needs and so should anyone marrying a pakistani(including you). You might not need your kids when ur all old and helpless and your parents might not need you but (I think your hubbys desi?) and his might. You chose to marry a desi man(just like the author of the thread) so you have to be sensitive to their needs.
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:k: I agree.
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Exactly...amana, i think u've just had some bad experiences and have come across some strange or extreme types of desis unfortunately...not all families r like that, thank God...but this is off topic now.
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Not only that, also our parents have this thing for grand children, how can we take that away from them.