[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
** Ibrahim says; salaams to all
I am afraid you failed to understand what that site conveys.
That site conveys there is no such thing as Sunnism or any other sect either... So using labels in Islam is not what Islam teaches BUT Muslims are capable of inventing for themselves .**
[/quote]
I really dont like to argue but if you go to the sunni link this man posted its all praise for the sunni sect(and no slandering)
and when he provides link for "other" sect sites they are predominantly sunni and the spread hatered against the "others"
I am just saying he should provide the site that concerns the sect and not one that Demotes it!!!
[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
** 2 of my friends at school were Ismailis, and yet were adamant in identifying themselves as being Shia.....
**
[/quote]
Just like Ahmadies are Adamant in being Called Muslims and Wahabies are Sunnies(A claim which most sunnies deny)
[quote]
Originally posted by wasir:
**Salaam Bros....
Nice to see you all after a while. I was a bit busy, as summer is always busy here in England due to....Weddings and Visitors from Pakistan.
Anyway....
Brothers if you want this Sunni Shia Debate then please please any Sunni or Shia bro should start a new thread I hope everybody will reply there.
Either you are Suni Shia or from anyother Muslim sect its your right to debate on this topic and not a Non-Muslim's especially......a Hindu's.....**
[/quote]
[quote]
Originally posted by Shah Jahan: I am not here to fight!! I am here to tell everyone to "have a neutral sense of thought" and not fall for propoganda!!
[/quote]
I agree on this...and I'm very sure your not here for fighting purposes.
One thing i never could understand is the difference in praying.
What is now the right and wrong version, I mean at least one of them must be wrong coz Islam, our religion has one GOD, ALLAH and THE APOSTEL (PBUH)!
No offence, friends i need to know more about this and another topic, which ill be posting soon in a new thread..thanx
"kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"
[This message has been edited by Ali_R (edited August 23, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Ali_R:
** I agree on this...and I'm very sure your not here for fighting purposes.
One thing i never could understand is the difference in praying.
What is now the right and wrong version, I mean at least one of them must be wrong coz Islam, our religion has one GOD, ALLAH and THE APOSTEL (PBUH)!
No offence, friends i need to know more about this and another topic, which ill be posting soon in a new thread..thanx
**
[/quote]
Allah is ONE, Quran is ONE, but there have been numerous ways (though the VERY BASIC is almost same in ALL)... ALL of us intend to follow the way Prophet PBUH prayed.
The only question where everyone differs is "which Hadith/Sunnah is more authentic" and based on the answers we have different 'styles' of praying even though all of them comprise of "niyyat (intention), qayaam (standing), reciting, rukoo (bending), two sujood (touching ground with nose, head, hands, knees)" for a raka'a.
so whats the BIG deal, all of the ways do these basics, and if you go and see Quran, Allah SWT has told for 'qayaam', 'rukoo', 'sajdaa'... if your way (from one of Prophet PBUH's ways) INCLUDES these then its upto Allah SWT to decide which one HE likes better, may be HE likes ALL of them, do we know?? NO
[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
** Allah is ONE, Quran is ONE, but there have been numerous ways (though the VERY BASIC is almost same in ALL)... ALL of us intend to follow the way Prophet PBUH prayed.
The only question where everyone differs is "which Hadith/Sunnah is more authentic" and based on the answers we have different 'styles' of praying even though all of them comprise of "niyyat (intention), qayaam (standing), reciting, rukoo (bending), two sujood (touching ground with nose, head, hands, knees)" for a raka'a.
so whats the BIG deal, all of the ways do these basics, and if you go and see Quran, Allah SWT has told for 'qayaam', 'rukoo', 'sajdaa'... if your way (from one of Prophet PBUH's ways) INCLUDES these then its upto Allah SWT to decide which one HE likes better, may be HE likes ALL of them, do we know?? NO
**
[/quote]
Still you couldnt answer my question bro. changez. I'm asking about the way THE PROPHET (pbuh) prayed...i dont think he pray one day different and another day with "open hands"...this is my question...i want to know how THE APOSTEL OF ALLAH (PBUH) perfomed his prayers and i think this is the way we should pray...do you agree on this?!?
"kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"
[quote]
Originally posted by Ali_R:
** Still you couldnt answer my question bro. changez. I'm asking about the way THE PROPHET (pbuh) prayed...i dont think he pray one day different and another day with "open hands"...this is my question...i want to know how THE APOSTEL OF ALLAH (PBUH) perfomed his prayers and i think this is the way we should pray...do you agree on this?!?
**
[/quote]
sorry I was busy .... this is my response in other thread as well:
why would it not be possible for Prophet PBUH to pray one day with hands 'open' and sometime later with 'closed' hands? Did Prophet PBUH not pray Zohr & Asr together one day while in different (far from each other) other days???
To me its all shows that Prophet PBUH didn't put any HARD & FAST rule that you have to pray ONLY this ONE way... he showed us several ways to pray. While praying in any of the styles did he ever say that THIS IS THE ONLY STYLE OF PRAYING? ... I don't beleive so.
We should start a new thread for this topic but I must share my side. What I have read and been told regarding praying with open hands is as it was the way to pray but when the evidence was given to Mohammed PBUH of people praying like Muslims but had a hand made god in their armpits or in ladies hear, then rules for prayers changed and we had to bring our hand up to the ear with elbows to the side like making a shape of a butterfly wing.
Now regarding Suni and Shia, I don't think there is anything be said in Quran apart from that their will be other religions and that it will be near the judgment day.
Suni and Shia are two different concept of one Religion like Catholics and Church of England. The difference is not only in believes but the way things are done. This subject is very vast and can become bit hostile.
[quote]
Originally posted by wasir:
**Salaam Bros....
Nice to see you all after a while. I was a bit busy, as summer is always busy here in England due to....Weddings and Visitors from Pakistan.
Anyway....
Brothers if you want this Sunni Shia Debate then please please any Sunni or Shia bro should start a new thread I hope everybody will reply there.
Either you are Suni Shia or from anyother Muslim sect its your right to debate on this topic and not a Non-Muslim's especially......a Hindu's.....
Shame on all of you.......whichever Muslim sect you come from.
I am posting this for third time here that don't insult your religion by debating this topic in a Hindu's thread.
Its like arguing with your brother or father on a family matter in the middle of the street infront of strngers and neighbours while it is more respectable to do that inside your own home.
Yaar this not a shame yaar Im not familiar with this if i would get clarified i might leave this topic or stop discussing and i dont think there is anything wrong with it unless why dont provokate or start insulting each other and there is no sign of it, yet.
Knowlegde is might and power and this are the weapons to.............
"kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"
[quote]
Originally posted by mbmagsi:
** when the evidence was given to Mohammed PBUH of people praying like Muslims but had a hand made god in their armpits or in ladies hear, then rules for prayers changed and we had to bring our hand up to the ear with elbows to the side like making a shape of a butterfly wing.
**
[/quote]
Are we talking about Sahabas????
Are we suggesting that some Sahaba were Islam's enemy????
Are we suggesting that we should NOT favour or follow all Sahabas blindly????
[quote]
Originally posted by Ali_R:
** I'm asking about the way THE PROPHET (pbuh) prayed...i dont think he pray one day different and another day with "open hands"...this is my question...i want to know how THE APOSTEL OF ALLAH (PBUH) perfomed his prayers and i think this is the way we should pray...do you agree on this?!?
**
[/quote]
There is only one way of finding out what is right and what is wrong. And the following Hadees from Sahih al-Tirmidhi describes it here like this.
While holding the door of the Ka'bah, AbuDharr told that he had heard the Prophet (SAWW) say, "My family (Ahly Bait) among you are like Noah's ark. He who sails in it will be safe, but he who holds back from it will perish." (Sahih al-Tirmidhi Hadith # 6174)
Find out how Ahlul bait (Rasool pbuh family) prayed. just follow them and you won't go wrong. Ahlulbait suggested to pray with open arms like some sects in sunni do as well.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by hello hello:
There is only one way of finding out what is right and what is wrong.
Find out how Ahlul bait (Rasool pbuh family) prayed. just follow them and you won't go wrong. Ahlulbait suggested to pray with open arms like some sects in sunni do as well.
Ibrahim says: salaams to all
So in other words , what The prophet (pbuh) enjoined can be negated or “fixed” by what the ahlul bait had instituted?
In Islam the Prophet (pbuh) by the Grace and wisdom of Allah (swt) had done his best NOT to “fix” certain things and had allowed that such matters (rituals) can be practiced with a free hand so long as there are within established precepts, which he had shown to others or practiced. This is important in the sense that, ** had he fixed them, anyone running contrary to that will have committed an error. Hence it has to be considered as a mercy for us. **
What are important have been stressed in the Qur’an. How it can be done and allowed to be done is enjoined in the hadiths by the Prophet (pbuh)
To understand this we must understand our eman and how it can fluctuate. There are times when we pray we will prolong certain things and there are times we might hasten it due to what is on our minds . Thus our actions and intentions will be better reflected when we are allowed freedom in this matters.
** Hence I would say in prayer the actual ritual is not the issue but what goes on in our head and heart ( feelings towards Allah [swt])would be the main issue. **
I will try and give you all the details of prayers in a separate thread, (since this thread is not about prayer) once I have a little bit more time to handle this. Insha Allah!
Ok. I'm a Shia, but not a perfect Muslim. And although I think this discussion is pointless, I still wanna share a thought, I think the word "Shia" does appear in the Holy Quran. I'm not sure where, but I think it does. If you want more details, go to a Muslim Scholar who knows the Quran by heart or somethin'.
Take care,
Haydur.
Note: Kall me "kafir", I don't mind... (whatever)
You can only paint with the colors you're given...
...so get what you like and like what you have.
**And btw, the literal meaning of the word Shia is "believer". And in context to the discussion, the word means "One who believes in Hazrat Imam Ali (A.S.)". So if you are a Sunni and u believe in Hazrat Ali (A.S.) you are already a Shia.
How'zat?
Haydur.**
You can only paint with the colors you're given...
...so get what you like and like what you have.