some ministers and MNAs/MPAs have been talking more than sense lately. Faisal Saleh Hayat being the first a couple of days ago saying if Gen Mush took off the uniform by 31 Dec this year it would lead to political chaos once again and the stability that has been around the past 4 years would vanish. very right i think! has he had a brain transplant lately or what?
now according to a headline in Dawn www.dawn.com today says the debate has taken quite a serious tone and there are a bunch of other officials who endorse the view that gen Mush shouldnt take off the uniform yet.
either these ppl have started to love the country more than power and money finally, or this is a very smart move by Gen Mush’s staregists to have it said through the ruling politicians so there isnt much blame on Mush and no one could say he ‘broke the promise’ as he’ll just be delaying it a bit.
Mush just dont get naked!
(that’s what he’ll be on shedding the uniform-a sherwani clad civil president doesnt have the heavy lion’s paw much needed to keep checks on the dirty boys and girls we have in power in parliament. or perhaps he should become Field Marshall like FM Ayoub, leave the post of COAS and still be Supreme Commander! good idea! we need him! he cant leave his nation under the supervision of wolves and walk away.)
Re: the Uniform Dilemma
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Haris Zuberi: *
some ministers and MNAs/MPAs have been talking more than sense lately. Faisal Saleh Hayat being the first a couple of days ago saying if Gen Mush took off the uniform by 31 Dec this year it would lead to political chaos once again and the stability that has been around the past 4 years would vanish. very right i think! has he had a brain transplant lately or what?
now according to a headline in Dawn www.dawn.com today says the debate has taken quite a serious tone and there are a bunch of other officials who endorse the view that gen Mush shouldnt take off the uniform yet.
either these ppl have started to love the country more than power and money finally, or this is a very smart move by Gen Mush's staregists to have it said through the ruling politicians so there isnt much blame on Mush and no one could say he 'broke the promise' as he'll just be delaying it a bit.
Mush just dont get naked!
(that's what he'll be on shedding the uniform-a sherwani clad civil president doesnt have the heavy lion's paw much needed to keep checks on the dirty boys and girls we have in power in parliament. or perhaps he should become Field Marshall like FM Ayoub, leave the post of COAS and still be Supreme Commander! good idea! we need him! he cant leave his nation under the supervision of wolves and walk away.)
[/QUOTE]
Yep, good post. There are somethings on Mushys long term plan for Pakistan, that just wont happen if he leaves power, however he is playing them at thier own game. Mushy Kicks A$$.
I know for sure, that if he leaves those greedy dogs will not wait a nano-second to get their hands on our coffers. Mushy Rules. But the world wants a "Democratic" Pakistan and belive that Mushy is a dictat! What Crap! He's the best thing to happen to Pakistan for a very lonf time.
Re: Re: the Uniform Dilemma
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by The_Jackal: *
Yep, good post. There are somethings on Mushys long term plan for Pakistan, that just wont happen if he leaves power, however he is playing them at thier own game. Mushy Kicks A$$.
I know for sure, that if he leaves those greedy dogs will not wait a nano-second to get their hands on our coffers. Mushy Rules. But the world wants a "Democratic" Pakistan and belive that Mushy is a dictat! What Crap!HE'S THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO PAKISTAN FRO A VERY LONGTIME.
[/QUOTE]
please allah help us, please
a munafiq is best thing happen to pakistan? wow!!
There is no uniform dilema. People in uniform belong in barracks. Simple.
Re: Re: the Uniform Dilemma
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by The_Jackal: *
Yep, good post. There are somethings on Mushys long term plan for Pakistan, that just wont happen if he leaves power, however he is playing them at thier own game. Mushy Kicks A$$.
I know for sure, that if he leaves those greedy dogs will not wait a nano-second to get their hands on our coffers. Mushy Rules. But the world wants a "Democratic" Pakistan and belive that Mushy is a dictat! What Crap! He's the best thing to happen to Pakistan for a very lonf time.
[/QUOTE]
absolutely true Jackal! we'll go back atleast 50 yrs in just 1 month if he leaves the scene. God bless him.
Re: Re: Re: the Uniform Dilemma
oh for cryin out loud! 
the other best thing that could happen to Pakistan would be getting rid of ppl with this frame of mind.
Re: Re: Re: Re: the Uniform Dilemma
Good point Haris. We need people to build the country not break it down. Economic performance has actually been better in authoritarian regimes (as long as the leader is pro-development) than democratically elected ones. Taiwan, China, Malaysia, South Korea all operated under authoritarian regimes to become Asian tigers. Talking with a few of my Indian friends, it became clear to us that democracy while a great institution, does not solely lead to progress. India is bogged down with “democratic” squabbles and bureacratic red-tape whereas the Chinese have moved ahead.
Since our President and his team has performed very well, I do not see a reason for him to leave. We need a stabilizing force that can put us back on the forefront of the world market. I see economics as the solution of all ills. Debt repayment, Baluchistan development, Media/IT liberalization are all great accomplishments of this govt, only a fool would oppose the such development.
Time will tell, he built the country or broke it. As i said before Pakistanis are shaksiat parast. Like there is no one capable enough in a nation of 145 million?
Nobody has the right to decide if he himself is best for the nation or not. Others will surely say that we are best. Democracy where are you???
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Islamabad: *
Time will tell, he built the country or broke it. As i said before Pakistanis are shaksiat parast. Like there is no one capable enough in a nation of 145 million?
Nobody has the right to decide if he himself is best for the nation or not. Others will surely say that we are best. Democracy where are you???
[/QUOTE]
Damn! I cannot believe I have to agree with you especially the quote "Pakistanis are shaksiat parast." Before Musharraf was made COAS, no one even heard of him. The longer he stays in power undemocratically, the longer he will rely on the subverting the Corps commander clique and the lotaz.
Wait till we hear about the looting currently going on by Sheikh Rashid, Faisal Hayat, the Chaudhry bros and their gang. Not to mention, the wholesale replacement of bureaucracy by retired Generals who are making hay.
If Gen.Musharraf has any sense of history, he would leave when his standing is still somewhat positive. Otherwise it's slip sliding away.
My objection to the concetration of power in one man..fill in the blanks guys
power ........ and absolute power ........ absolutely..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the Uniform Dilemma
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
Since our President and his team has performed very well, I do not see a reason for him to leave. We need a stabilizing force that can put us back on the forefront of the world market. I see economics as the solution of all ills. Debt repayment, Baluchistan development, Media/IT liberalization are all great accomplishments of this govt, only a fool would oppose the such development.
[/QUOTE]
I agree. Additionally, it must be remembered that in getting the government to agree to the separation of the offices of COAS and President, the MMA agreed to back the government in the creation of the National Security Council (NSC). It palpably failed to do that when the NSC bill came up for a vote recently, so the government/Musharraf are within their right to forfeit their part of the agreement i.e. Musharraf to continue as COAS after Dec 31 2004, as well as President. Should this decision be taken, I am sure the governement will able to find enough members to pass an 18th amendment to the Constitution to make this 'legally' possible. :)
All Hayats and Chodhris and Mamdoots have again crawled out of their holes to keep their family tradition alive.
Taiwan, China, Malaysia, South Korea all operated under authoritarian regimes to become Asian tigers.
Authoritarian maybe but not Army led, Malaysia, taiwan and China are one party states. More importantly those are institutionally stable states and have a proper system of succession. Pakistan has none of those institutions, and what it did have left after BB and NS was destroyed by Musharraf. Unaccountable authoritarian governments only leas to the creation of crony capitalissts like in Pakistan, South korea and Indonesia and the over concentration of wealth in the hands of a few people. The end result is an extreme reaction by the people ..in Pakistan that created the PPP and Awami League sweep in the 1970 elections..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
and what it did have left after BB and NS was destroyed by Musharraf.
[/QUOTE]
what exactly...?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the Uniform Dilemma
i sure hope so :k:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the Uniform Dilemma
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
Good point Haris. We need people to build the country not break it down. Economic performance has actually been better in authoritarian regimes (as long as the leader is pro-development) than democratically elected ones. Taiwan, China, Malaysia, South Korea all operated under authoritarian regimes to become Asian tigers. Talking with a few of my Indian friends, it became clear to us that democracy while a great institution, does not solely lead to progress. India is bogged down with "democratic" squabbles and bureacratic red-tape whereas the Chinese have moved ahead.
Since our President and his team has performed very well, I do not see a reason for him to leave. We need a stabilizing force that can put us back on the forefront of the world market. I see economics as the solution of all ills. Debt repayment, Baluchistan development, Media/IT liberalization are all great accomplishments of this govt, only a fool would oppose the such development.
[/QUOTE]
absolutely RF!
Haris: The remains of a Judicial system, the rule of law... and lets not forget Pakistan's soul which is now in the custody of George Bush.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Zakk: *
*Taiwan, China, Malaysia, South Korea all operated under authoritarian regimes to become Asian tigers.
Authoritarian maybe but not Army led, Malaysia, taiwan and China are one party states. More importantly those are institutionally stable states and have a proper system of succession. Pakistan has none of those institutions, and what it did have left after BB and NS was destroyed by Musharraf. Unaccountable authoritarian governments only leas to the creation of crony capitalissts like in Pakistan, South korea and Indonesia and the over concentration of wealth in the hands of a few people. The end result is an extreme reaction by the people ..in Pakistan that created the PPP and Awami League sweep in the 1970 elections..
[/QUOTE]
Well thankyou for that contribution, now we all know where you stand comparing, Mushy to two of the most horrible people in Pakistan's history.. they were no more then traitros who emptied the national coffers and created personal strom troopers to protect them self from the ensuing rebellion, one such force was then absorbed my the newmilitary institution and was created as the national urban anti terrorist units called Elite Force. "Black Clad Cops"...
Mushy Rules!
Pakistan Zindabad!
The PPPP (or whatever is left of it nowadays), seems finally to be accepting realities…
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_18-4-2004_pg7_54
Musharraf may continue as COAS: Aitzaz
Pakistan People’s Party Parliamentarians (PPPP) leader Aitzaz Ahsan said on Saturday that President General Pervez Musharraf might continue as army chief after December 31 with the help of a simple majority vote by the parliament. Mr Ahsan told a private news channel, “The agreement between the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) and the government says that Article 63 (1) D of the Constitution will be operative from December 31 which asks Musharraf to remove uniform. But the same article could help General Musharraf keep his uniform if he succeeds in getting a simple majority vote from the parliament.”
^ YES!
see, i knew Mush aint no fool! i knew there would be a catch. i havent read the article but i'm sure poor old MMA cant outsmart our Mush!
let's hope for the best!