The Undefeatable General.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

Well it is more political debate (and lot less religious stuff). So it may be appropriate here.

And yes we need a frank discussion about history instead of putting a green chador on those wars and treating them as some holy and divine struggle.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

I haven't heard these words in the Khutba at my mosque. LOL by this, Musharraf is guilty of disobeying his Sultan in the first place.

And i ma not interested in YOUR twisted two bit understanding of Islamic history, you can teach that to your kids.

The point i made was simple, the constitution of Pakistan gives its people the right to voice their opinion and of political activity.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

Yes we need frank discussions, but lets not drag them and take names of holier persons with today's corrupts IMO, its like mixing dust with gold.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

1 - Your ignorance about Friday Khuba (Arabic contents) is pretty common among many. So don't take it as negative against you. Just read and you'll understand.

2 - Calling Islamic history as "twisted" goes against the great writers like Shbli Nomani. So either you remain trapped in superficial knowledge about Islam (or do some reading).

3 - Your point about Imam Hussain was irrelevant and I have provided a summary to prove that. Now unless you come back with evidence that

"there was no tribal feud between Moawia clan and Banu Talib clan" then don't go around the circles.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

Mashallah, i like the bullshet given by the author, i suppose he will get some favour in return.

General is only undefeatable against Pakistani opponents but against Indians in Kargil, he was flat and out of his wits.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

Well, to be fair, Musharraf has conquered many problems in Pakistan... lets start with the obvious

  1. In his 8 years of rule, Musharraf has won the war on poverty in Pakistan. Everyone in Pakistan is now laughing and smiling in orchards and lakes full of honey and milk.

  2. He has won the war on population explosion. Pakistan's population is under control (literally and figuratively).

  3. He has won the war on terrorists and extremists. Valleys of Swat and Waziristan which were always full of gun-fire and smoke for the last 50 years are now bastions of peace and tranquility.

  4. He has won the war on drugs. Pakistan is now completely drug free. You can't even find a film heroine in Pakistan, even if you try.

  5. He has conquered sectarian violence in Pakistan. Now every day we have processions for shia-sunni unity coming out of Imam Baargahs and mazzar's. Bomb blasts and gun-fires on people of opposite sect are a thing of the past now.

  6. He has complete victory over political corruption. Now politicians who have looted our country have no place to hide (except may be the federal cabinet). Gone are the days when our Interior Minister was on our own Exit Control List.

  7. Musharraf has declared complete victory in his fight for independent and free judiciary. Now all judges are free to make honest decisions.

  8. He has also completed his victory to ensure free and unbiased media in Pakistan.

Masha Allah... the list goes on and on. The last 8 years, especially the last 1 month symbolizes all that is good and pure about Pakistan. An Undefeatable General, indeed. All our problems are solved.

God bless Pakistan.

2 Likes

Re: The Undefeatable General.

Long live the great Musharraff.... may he continue to drink the blood of the Pakistani nation until there is'nt a drop left.... long live mushy, long live mushy

Re: The Undefeatable General.

I guess your suggestion is directed towards icono who was the first to bring Imam Hussain's name in this discussion.

On a second thought, Holier persons faced some serious issues in their time, and we should know about it.

I mean 4 years old Christian kids believe in Santa, and little Muslim kids know that every sahabi was beyond any earthly issue.

However one day they all grow up and they need to learn that there is no Santa, and yes the sahaba killed each other in tribal disputes.

Three of our 4 Khulafa Rashideen were murdered, and we should at least know that things were not all hunky dory in their times. If Sahaba could go to war against each other, then why we have to wrap their names in scented cotton?

In fact more knowledge means only one thing. That all those "holier" person had some very real life issues, that some solved it via discussion but most of them ended up using sword.

peace and love to all.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

What free Media?
What justise is there for the common man?
What security is there for the common man?

Musharaf supporters need to return to the real world.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

The examples of Sahaba is for us to ponder upon and we can always use it to learn lesson, I agree, but things become sensitive when corrupt people get "compared" with Sahabas and the Sahabi then gets to sit in the company of present corrupts.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

[quote=antiobl;5464678"there was no tribal feud between Moawia clan and Banu Talib clan" then don't go around the circles.[/quote]

Now you are accusing that fight of Imam Hussain was just for supermacy of his clan.

You have a lot to learn.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

How can you use "examples (#1)" of any kind let alone sahaba if
you refuse to "compare (#2)" to the current situation be it corrupt or not!

BTW sahabis cannot "sit with the present corrupt #3", as all the sahabas and even taba tabiyeen have long ago met their Creater swa.

I think your point if I understand correctly is:

----Use examples of sahaba when their name gets more respect
----And do not use examples of sahaba when some bad aspects of their history could come up.

Unfortunately that will allow us to learn from the results of anarchy and civil wars from that earlier and "romantic" era in Islamic history.

And that's where we should keep the proper decorum as mush as possible. And I agree on that!

Accusing????? Moi?

How come you are hell bent on putting words where exist none? Seeds of the fight between the clans of Banu Talib and Banu Moawia is part of our history. And discussing it could never be termed as "accusation" or worse "falsification".

Remember one thing! Historians can't kill sahaba, rather sahaba themselves got involved in civilwar or infighting or tribal warfare (whatever you want to call it) and "killed each other".

In fact a much bigger clan warfare was fought between Hazrat Aysha and Hazrat Ali during Jange-Jamal where 10,000 sahaba got killed. Don't tell me that either Hazrat Aysha or Hazrat Ali somehow were fighting for a purpose higher than the other. As both of them were well respected for their status as part of our Messenger's pbuh family.

So just go ahead and accept the reality. There is no point in behas mubahisa just for the sake of ones ego.

Peace!

Re: The Undefeatable General.

aobl- the rivalry between teh clans preceded the prophets time even..I can provide info on it if interested but maybe ina diff thread.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

Yes a different thread please!

However I haven't seen references to some pre-Islamic tribal feud between Banu Talib and Banu Moawia.

Yeah as per Captain, that discussion may be good in religious forum.

Peace.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

aobl yeah that side of teh clan had become more powerful and controlling, and the prophet's influence turned this side of teh clan as the more powerful part but the tensions and confrontations had been there from atleast the time of the prophet's grandfather. I will provide info as i promised i just have to get my books, and will wait for that thread.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

[quote]
The president of Pakistan, General Pervez Musharraf, has exhibited unparalleled characteristics of success and indefeatibility in all endeavours in his military career as well as in the recent interactions with the civilian society and the civil bureaucracy. His approach has always been unique and ideal in solving difficult problems . The attitude has been forthright and candid with the result that all actions have always met with success.
[/quote]

Yep, and for 8 years plus he has dismayed all those who have time and time again predicted his demise. :)

Re: The Undefeatable General.

Yes he has dismayed those who predicted his demise, but how did he do it?

By breaking and destroying every single institution in the Pakistani state. By ripping apart the constition, by breaching the independance of the judiciary, by appointing his relatives to several critical positions in the army, by combining forces with facist terrorists like the MQM, by degrading the formerly respected institution of the army, by declaring martial law and muffling the independant media.
Keep on worshipping Mushy, I'm there are those who spoke highly of Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Pinochet and others.

Re: The Undefeatable General.

Each week for the past 8 years has been a bonus. :)

Re: The Undefeatable General.

Yup, mashallah. :)

Re: The Undefeatable General.

LOL you 2 must be Indian agents. I think this is the ONLY place on the internet I have ever seen anyone speaking in favor of this cowardly little tyrant Mushy