The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Pakistan is a political concept, an amalgam of at least 6 differet nations. These nations include Punjabis, Sinfhis, Siraikis, Baluchis, Pashtuns and Muhajirs. No matter how much the do we drum Pakistani nationhood, these nationalities will retain their individualties. There is seldom an instance in history where a nation has been artificially constructed.

Now the point is, which nationalities have suffered the most as a consequence of Pakistan’s coming into existence? Who are the ultimate loosers and may loose more in terms of societal building and development.

I will say, Sindhis and Baluchis. Next I will include Pashtuns. Punjabis seem to be the ultimate beneficiries. Muhajirs have sometimes benefited and sometimes lost. But overall, they have been better off.

What do you think about this issue?

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

One of the threads I started has been deleted. It seems the administrators of this forum have little tolerance for supposedly "non-Pakistani" stuff.

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

Presently in absolute terms Baloch have suffered the worst as a result of Pakistans creation..Sindhis ..in socio economic terms..have suffered but they have retained their identity and remain major players in political terms. Pashtuns 3rdly because they have been divided into multiple parts..and have faced the brunt of the nations Afghan policy..but history is an odd thing...if you looked at stats in 1948...they would say the two groups that suffered the most were probably Punjabis and Mohajirs..

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

Pakistan is a land of oppurtunities. Any one, who put best efforts will get the results. I m staying in Lahore these days. The elite of Lahore includes as much Pathans as there are Punjabis. Similarly if some one will make a database of the richest people (families) of Pakistan, then it will have more Muhajirs than any other group. If some one will make the same database of agriculture, Saraikis and Sindhis will stay at the top. Baloch Sardars are a big part of our elite too.

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

Last of dino,

so your point is create 6 countries based on these nations???
create 50 countries in USA and 4 in UK based on nations living.
in UK Scotish lost their language and roughly every business centre is in London, England!!

what would have been if Punjab was a separate country?? do you think it could be lesser rich? why you see more punjabis is cause they are more in numbers and whats wrong with that ??

i am sorry but I dont support theory to devide people
what should happen, more inter province interaction. more rights and resources to states.

narrow minded ness and looking at small picture will not solve any problem!

why silly pakistanis cant stay together when right next door indians are living with more nations than Pakistan!
certainly there are lessons to learn from them.
people working in banglore in south are not hated cause they are from northern indian rich states and vice versa.

more integration required between people of each province to get rid of wadera made walls of hate. ordinary people in every cornor of Pakistan are same and have same problems.

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

^ Not neccessarily true..Punjabis are very much in ascendancy in Pakistan right now..they dominate business ..the army and civil service..in Pakistan that is essentially absolute power. unemployment levels are still high too.. in Sind and Balochistan..while they are falling in Punjab and to a much lesser extent NWFP

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

^^ what do you expect from nearly 50% population of Pakistan. they are bound to be seen more in all walks of life.

apart from Nwaz shareef ( who was again a kashmiri mohajir not pubjabi), can you name any PM of Pakistan? or if not a general cum president from Punjab?

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

Punjabis dont dominate business but agriculture mainly.

plus mainly cause of its culture , there are less tribal areas in Punjab compared with other province.

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

^ Sure Ghulam Mohammed, Zia ul Haq..Chaudhy Fazl Elahi, Farooq Leghari, Rafiq Tarrar were Presidents..and all Punjabi (..PM's Feroz Noon, Nawaz Sharif, Chory Shujat, Shaukat Aziz, Moeen Qureshi.

The argument Kashmir Punjabi doesn't wash with me..most non Pashtuns consider Ayub Khan a pathan..even though he was a Tarin Pathan from a predominantly hindko speaking family..and had very little to do with anything West of Attock. Similarly they say Yahya Khan was a pathan..when he was a persian speaker from Peshawar who had next to nothing to do with Peshawar. The fact is while Nawaz Sharif might have favoured his own biradri he was still very much pro Punjabi...

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

The not so Punjabi rulers of Pakistan since 1947.

Quaid-e-Azam, Mohammed Ali Jinnah - Gujerati.
Khawaja Nazimuddin - Bengali.
Mohammed Ali Bogra - Bengali.
Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy - Bengali.
Ismail Chundigar - Gujerati.
Iskander Mirza - Persian.

Ayub Khan - Pathan.
Yahya Khan - Persian.

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto - Sindhi.
Nural Amin - Bengali.

Mohammed Khan Junejo - Sindhi.

Ghulam Ishaq Khan - Pathan.
Benzair Bhutto - Sindhi.
Ghulam Mustafa Jatoi - Sindhi.
Balkh Sher Mazari - Balochi.
Nawaz Sharif - Kashmiri.
Farooq Leghari - Balochi/Pathan.

Zafurullah Khan Jamali - Balochi.
Shaukat Aziz - Mohajir/Kashmiri.
Pervez Musharraf - Mohajir.

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

Zakk, that was the inevitable price to have a territory to rule, short-lived and inconsequential as far as the long-term social, political, and economic impact on the nationalities involved i.e. Muhajirs and Punjabis is concerned. Rather, those who migrated were well-integrated into the new system of the newly-emerged state as dominant elite. Are their hardships comparable to the plight of Baluchis, Sindhis, and Pashtuns at this point of time after the 50+ years of ordeal that still continues.

Moreover, we are forgetting Bangalis who sufffered the most in terms of loss of life, economic underdevelopment, cultural subjugation, and political marginalization.

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

most interesting, Zakk can u elaborate or provide details, thanks

introduce your friends
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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

Iam afraid your approach ignores the class dominated societal aspects of Pakistan and has too narrow an approach.

For the elite of Pakistan, ethnic backgrounds have never been an issue. Influential bengali businessmen were very much supportive of Pak army in 1971, whereas the masses supported Awami League. Similarly, sardars of Baluchistan have always enjoyed cordial and lucrative relationships with the center. Sindhi landlords (Waderras), Pathan Maliks, Mullahs, Punjabi chaudhries (Jageerdars) and Mohajir businessmen they all have one thing in common ie to perpetuate the status quo where a small group continues to dominate the political, economic and social polity of Pakistan. To achieve this purpose, elites have joined hands with Faujis and civil servants who do the dirty job of passing laws and keeping masses subjugated to the system.

Common man of Baluchitan or Punjab suffer the same ignominy of poverty and disenfranchisement irrespective of their race or religion. To argue otherwise may have some value but does not address the real issues confronting the majority.

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

Only fools will be deceived by these concocted figures. The ethnicities of some of the above personalities have been mis-presented e.g. Mir Balkhk Sher Mazari, General Ayub Khan, General Yahaya Khan, Farooq Khan Laghari, Nawaz Sharif with power-basis in Punjab have been re-ethnized as Baluchis, Pathans, Kashmiris, etc. (as Punjabis never existed )

Also some famous (notorious?) names are missing from the above list e.g. Ghulam Mohammad, Gen. Ziaul-Haq, Rafiq Tarar, etc.

Moreover, it doesn’t need a rocket scientist to know that majority of non-Punjabi heads of state were just lameducks at the mercy of the powerful establishment, which sometimes ruled directly and sometimes from behind the screen. It is not a question of puppet heads of state but the type of consitution and overll distribution of power. Senate has no powers compared to N…ational Assembly where one province has almost absolute dominance. Look at the all-powerful bureaucracy and the core commanders formation, the actual ruling clique.

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

Was Mohammed Ali Jinnah a Gujarati?

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

Ex-President Sardar Farooq Ahmad Khan Leghari, is the head of numerically strong and powerful Balochi Leghari tribe whose lands and people straddle the territories of all four provinces.

Ghulam Khan Ishaq, a full blooded Pathan and President of Pakistan from 1988 till 1993, was very much a powerful Executive. He dismissed both Benazir and Nawaz’s governments.

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

Yes.

Gujarati was the mother-toungue of both Mohandas K. Gandhi, the “father of India” and Quaid-e Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the “father of Pakistan”.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gujerati)

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^ Thats cool I didnt know that, I'am Gujarati too.

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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

In order to form a fair ...opinion, we should look at the power structures in Pakistan.

The military-civil establishment-the actual ruler- which ruled for more than half the history of Pakistan directly and for the rest of the time indirectly from behind the screen is highly Punjab-heavy.

Every other structure of power/economy (whether civil-militray industrial complexes, financial institutions, media, etc.) or power-distribution-formula/mechanism essentially catered to the wishes and vision of this establishment. Therefore if we look at the constitution and the concurrent list, or the distribution of power between N...ational Assembly and Senate, all have been deviced and designed to maintain the balance in favor of this only center of power.

Interestingly, if we look at the power-history of Pakistan, Punjab has ever been on ascendance not experiencing any setback or decline in power like Muhajir faced in 1970s. They already dominated civil-military bureaucratic structures at the time of partition. Their share in industrial and financial sector has increased manifold since then. One example would be media.

Today there are many English language newspapers owned by Punjabi groups. Jang-News Group, Nawaiwaqt-Nation Group, Dailly Time, Geo, and a number of other media giants are owned by Punjabis. (Muhaijirs only have Dawn, very powerful though.). As we all can see, they are becoming more and more powerful strengthening their grip on the state even further.

Bangalis never tasted power. Pashtuns enjoyed some power during Afghan War but then were rapidly purged from power corridors. Baluchis and Sindhis counted no where since the earlier days till this time.

This is also the reason that Punjab has been pro-establishment and pro-military throught the history of Pakistan. No instance can be qouted when its political elite or masses ever followed an anti-estblisment course. Even Muhajirs, after their fall from power, were able to form a formidable anti-establishment political force i.e. MQM.

Is it this excessive dominance of Punjab that is eating at the basis of the state? What is the base of Punjab's power?

introduce your friends
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Re: The Ultimate Losers in Pakistan!

^

The Jang/News and Geo have always been owned by the Mir family from the former Princely State of Hyderabad-Deccan where my family hail from i.e. Mohajirs.

^^^ Copy the Guppies ^^^